Ex-Nasa Scientist calls Canadian Conservatives 'Neanderthals.'

[PIK]

Electric vehicles.

Wind, Solar, Geothermal, Hydro-electric (powers 90% of B.C.'s energy) etc.

I doubt wind and solar play much of a part in that. In ONT we use 16000mw or what ever and wind and solar make up 300 of that. And how many billions did that cost and is going to cost us. Edited April 27, 2013 by PIK

[Charon]

Bryan: Are you going to post any evidence whatsoever to back up your statement?

Edited April 27, 2013 by Charon

[PIK]

Bryan: Are you going to post any evidence whatsoever to back up your statement?

Are you? Another newbie on the boards, from the left. You remind me of someone.

[Charon]

PIK: Solar is now more efficient than conventional resources. There is a company in the States called Solar City, which for free installs solar panels at one's home, and then charges one a lower rate.

For Canada wind, is probably a better option. Wind is highly efficient, its renewable, and we have tons of it and it leaves 0 nuclear waste unlike the Nuclear Plants in Ontario which are incredibly expensive on top of that. Just because only a small amount of energy is currently being generated in Ontario is a testament to the lack of political will for renewable energy, not it being ineffective.

[PIK]

We have a dam system that is clean and cheap, but most of the time it is just dumping water to make room for the more expensive wind and solar. All the billions wasted on it could have gone into battery research for a small and safe battery that will hold power for at least a month. That way every house could have it's own panel. But I doubt the big unions would ever let that happen.

Edited April 27, 2013 by PIK

[jacee]

Prices go up, corporations make more money. You surprise me.

And alternatives become more attractive.

They tell us they are 'energy' companies and they'll develop alternatives too, so they don't have all their eggs in one basket.

Yes, prices will have to go up before innovation will happen.

[Argus]

And alternatives become more attractive.

They tell us they are 'energy' companies and they'll develop alternatives too, so they don't have all their eggs in one basket.

Yes, prices will have to go up before innovation will happen.

And with prices going up, the economy goes down.

[Argus]

PIK: Solar is now more efficient than conventional resources. There is a company in the States called Solar City, which for free installs solar panels at one's home, and then charges one a lower rate.

For Canada wind, is probably a better option. Wind is highly efficient,

Neither solar nor wind power are reliable. The power they produces rises and falls off with the weather. Until something else comes up we will continue to make use of fossil fuels.

[Charon]

That's silly one can compensate for the other. If there's not much Sun, then there will probably be wind. Let's say 90% of energy was being generated from one or the other I wouldn't mind non renewables making up that 10% energy to keep things flowing smoothly. That of course would be the opposite from now which is about 90% non-renewables (except in cases of hydro-electric) vs 10% renewables.

The solution is not to just throw the baby out of the bathwater, and give up all hope for action which the oil companies their minions, followers and investors so desperately want to happen that they are spending billions of dollars every year to try to convince the public that renewable energy is less efficient, when it is far more efficient.

[cybercoma]

Neither solar nor wind power are reliable. The power they produces rises and falls off with the weather. Until something else comes up we will continue to make use of fossil fuels.

Neither wind nor the rays of sun make plastics nor the myriad other products that come from petroleum either.

[Charon]

You can make plastic from plant oils if you really want. That said I'd actually prefer petroleum to be used for plastics than simply burnt away into thin air. At least you're making something durable and useable out of the former.

[Keepitsimple]

Bryan: Are you going to post any evidence whatsoever to back up your statement?

I'll give Bryan a hand. Hansen's recent statements speak to his credibility, if not his intelligence - or what's left of it. Saying that the Oil Sands - a carbon source that is miniscule if not infantessimal in the global scheme of things - would be "game over for the planet" and "the end of civilization"......c'mon now - give that guy's head a shake. Hansen is an idiot - completely over the top with his Oil Sands doomsday scenarios. Where is all the righteous indignation over the US and their dependence on coal and the thousands of coal mines in China and India. Why is Hansen and Canada's own eco-nuts slagging Canada - a country that utilizes nuclear, Hydro and Natural Gas and NO coal mines to speak of? It's because we're easy pickings - made so by our gutless left wing politicians and media that won't stand up for Canada by giving some proper perspective. Don't go after the little guy - if we dug up every last drop of oil out of the tar sands (which we won't) - it wouldn't put even a microscopic dent in "Global Warming". Don't know why I bothered - it will continue to fall on deaf ears.

[Charon]

The oil sands is a massive cesspool for the environment which is extremely fragile. There's no point in underplaying it or saying if the Chinese are doing it we must as well help trash the planet anyway. And then the conservatives sold much of the tar sands to the Chinese, under the Nexen deal and put in force a new program whereby 5000 Chinese 'guest workers,' will help speed up coal production in B.C. to ship to China and burn off there, so they can't even use that card with a straight face.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Charon

[jacee]

Saying that the Oil Sands - a carbon source that is miniscule if not infantessimal in the global scheme of things - would be "game over for the planet" and "the end of civilization"......c'mon now - give that guy's head a shake. Hansen is an idiot - completely over the top with his Oil Sands doomsday scenarios.

Not entirely

Oilsands Climate Impacts

[ReeferMadness]

The Harper Conservatives are turning Canada into an international embarrassment.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

The current conservatives are essentially scientific neanderthals.

They hate science, research, study, information, and knowledge because it often goes against their pro-corporate ideology.

That is why they've been cracking down on the study of reality... because we all know that reality has a socialist bias

Edited April 28, 2013 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Guest]

Actually, the reality, as has been pointed out many times on here, is that we are a planet full of people who get our energy from fossil fuels.

Anything else is fantasy, including the idea that we can affect the climate by not building a pipeline.

I think that, if the Liberals or the NDP form the next government, we would see that scientific neanderthalism is catching.

[Keepitsimple]

Not entirely

Oilsands Climate Impacts

Thank you Jacee for providing some context to the argument - and for finally engaging in some rational thinking . Your link points out that the Oil Sands comprise 7% of Canada's total Greenhouse Gas emissions. Canada's total emissions contribute 2% toward the global total. So by extension, the Oil Sands contribute point one-four percent (14 thousandths of one percent) towards global emissions. I hope you've now joined the group that is totally frustrated with eco-nuts who are refusing to bash the real culprits - the US who generate 40-50% of their power through coal burning plants, the Chinese who generate 75% through coal, and India, who also generate huge amounts. Even Germany - that bastion of renewable energy, is continuing to build at least a dozen coal-fired plants. Show me a new coal-fired plant on the drawing board in Canada.

[TimG]

I think that, if the Liberals or the NDP form the next government, we would see that scientific neanderthalism is catching.

That would not happen because the intolerant bigots who populate the left would immediately argue that such policies are completely 'justified' because their 'team' supports it.

The entire 'science based policy making' is pathetic sham that is only rolled out when the science happens to agree with lefty political objectives. When science does not agree with lefty predispositions (i.e. nuclear power or GMOs) then lefties reject science faster than an ice cube melts in hell.

[Argus]

That's silly one can compensate for the other.

No, they can't.

If there's not much Sun, then there will probably be wind. Let's say 90% of energy was being generated from one or the other I wouldn't mind non renewables making up that 10% energy to keep things flowing smoothly.

First of all, solar and wind energy are far, far, far more costly than fossil fuel energy, or even nuclear. Neither is anywhere near reliable. Some of those wind farms produce very little energy for days on end. Same for the solar cells. The wind farms kill tens of thousands of birds, btw, and there is growing evidence the sound/vibrations is damaging to humans who live nearby. If you largely relied on them you would still need to keep almost all the current generators running so they could step in at need.

[Charon]

First of all, solar and wind energy are far, far, far more costly than fossil fuel energy,

Bollux. If that's true how come Solarcity down in the states is installing panels for free and then charging people a lower rate for them?

Actually, the reality, as has been pointed out many times on here, is that we are a planet full of people who get our energy from fossil fuels.

This was the reality in the 19th century. Now the people of planet get their resources from a myriad variety of resources. Now why do Conservatives want us permanently frozen in the 19th century. Oh yeah because conservatives want us to return to feudalism with them as our feudal masters of the middle ages.

Speaking of Neanderthals and Science. Let's see what Stockwell Day Conservative Party Member and former Prime Ministerial candidate said about Science and who from 1978 to 1985, Day was assistant pastor and school administrator at the Bentley Christian Centre in Bentley, Alberta. His school taught the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum. A lunatic right wing evangelical brain washing program that shouldn't have seen the light of day in Canada.

"There is scientific proof that the world is about 6,000-years-old and that early man co-existed with dinosaurs. "

- Stockwell Day member of the Conservative Party of Canada, and former Prime Ministerial candidate from Alberta.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Charon

[Guest]

Now why do Conservatives want us permanently frozen in the 19th century. Oh yeah because conservatives want us to return to feudalism with them as our feudal masters of the middle ages.

Oh yeah, I never thought of that.

[Guest Kenneth]

This was the reality in the 19th century. Now the people of planet get their resources from a myriad variety of resources. Now why do Conservatives want us permanently frozen in the 19th century. Oh yeah because conservatives want us to return to feudalism with them as our feudal masters of the middle ages.

You make them out to be wanting us to return to two - or three if you include the age of Neaderthals thing - different eras at the same time which is a pretty confused way of looking at things. The present-day Conservatives are far from being "conservatives," regardless of what you think about some of their personal religious beliefs. Free-market capitalism is what they are all about, which is why libertarians of Flanagan's ilk tend to associate themselves with them. Capitalism is not a "conservative" economic system, which is why your claim that they want to return us to the fuedal system is a particularly innane attempt at trolling.

[Charon]

When I say Conservatives I'm referring to Neo-Conservatives like the Canadian Conservative Party and their followers since they make up the majority of those who claim the title of Conservative in Canada.

Classical Conservatives are a near extinct breed, and you're more likely to encounter them in the Liberal party than any other party in Canada with people like Paul Martin.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Charon

[jacee]

When I say Conservatives I'm referring to Neo-Conservatives like the Canadian Conservative Party and their followers since they make up the majority of those who claim the title of Conservative in Canada.

Classical Conservatives are a near extinct breed, and you're more likely to encounter them in the Liberal party than any other party in Canada with people like Paul Martin.

So-called 'small c' conservatives, aka 'progressive' conservatives, many of whom have fled the Conservatives.