Isreal rejects the Nazi car - (can't make this stuff up)

[DogOnPorch]

Nice...gotta love some S.S.

My favorite non-regular Trek character next to the young Ashley Judd.

[DogOnPorch]

[Rue]

My relatives died during the liquidation of the Minsk ghetto by the SS. They were Hamburg residents and their Stolpersteines still are embedded in the street. One of my aunts is a survivor who made it aboard the SS St Louis only to be dropped in France before Case Yellow. She made it to NYC on the last ship out of France before May 1940. She's still alive and rarely leaves NYC. My uncle (dead), taken prisoner by the British on his way from Yugoslavia to Switzerland at the end of the war (minus his uniform), served in the 13th SS as well as the 369th Devil Division as a combat engineer...both units under nominal control of the Grand Mufti al-Husseini. He was the equivalent of a Lieutenant. He was moved to Alberta to serve his POW tour then never left Canada.

That's it in a nutshell. That you don't see that as being connected to the Holocaust on both ends is odd. But hey...I guess I'm just not Rue enough to count...lol.

What does that have to do with this idiotic thread? What does that have to do with giggling at the initials SS?

No one has denied your stories. Using them though as an excuse to giggle at the SS is the point. Its a simple point.

There is a trucking company in Germany called K then u with two dots on top of the u, then nt. You want to giggle over that?

I could care less what your views are on Israel or anything else. Giggling over the SS is idiotic.

No you are not Sarah Silverman.

I call it like it is. I do not like the laziness of certain posters who have assumed familiarity with each other over the years and think their views need not be defended given earlier comments they made.

Giggling over the SS is moronic. That is my opinion and I stand by it.

Is Mel Brooks still alive? Maybe you can get him to do a comedy on this.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

What does that have to do with this idiotic thread? What does that have to do with giggling at the initials SS?

No one has denied your stories. Using them though as an excuse to giggle at the SS is the point. Its a simple point.

There is a trucking company in Germany called K then u with two dots on top of the u, then nt. You want to giggle over that?

I could care less what your views are on Israel or anything else. Giggling over the SS is idiotic.

No you are not Sarah Silverman.

I call it like it is. I do not like the laziness of certain posters who have assumed familiarity with each other over the years and think their views need not be defended given earlier comments they made.

Giggling over the SS is moronic. That is my opinion and I stand by it.

Is Mel Brooks still alive? Maybe you can get him to do a comedy on this.

Where were you in '62?? Errrr...'63?

[guyser]

Giggling over the SS is moronic.

Getting upset over the ss is a stretch well beyond moronic .

[bush_cheney2004]

Mel Brooks is still alive (age 86). One of his early movies gave us this:

[GostHacked]

Getting upset over the ss is a stretch well beyond moronic .

I can agree to that.

[kimmy]

The Chevy Nova did not sell so well in Spanish speaking countries.

Is the fault of the Spanish that they did not understand that 'Nova' was an English word for a stellar event rather than the Spanish word 'does not go'?

I thought the exact same thing when I read the original post.

Once upon a time, Pontiac used to re-badge their "Bonneville" as the "Parisienne" to sell in Canada, I believe. More recently, they rebadged the Australian-made Holden Monaro as the Pontiac GTO for US sale, as neither "Holden" nor "Monaro" had as much cachet as "Pontiac" and "GTO" with American buyers. GM has also been re-badging the Daewoo Hung Lo and Fung Wang cars as Chevrolets, because North American consumers don't want to drive a Fung Wang, and the "Daewoo" name inspires mistrust that ranks up there with names like "Enron" and "Madoff".

Long story short, GM is happy to change a vehicle's name to make it more palatable to the local marketplace, probably a lesson they learned when "Nova" sales tanked in Puerto Rico.

But when I actually read the article, this little bit jumped out at me:

However, Chevrolet spokesperson Michael Albano tells FoxNews.com that “Chevrolet has no plans to export the SS to Israel.”

Now, if GM was going to sell cars named "SS" in Israel, I think Baruch Shuv would have a point.

But Baruch Shuv isn't complaining because people are going to be driving around Tel Aviv in an "SS", he is complaining because people in Minneapolis and Calgary are going to be driving around in an "SS".

So as far as I'm concerned, Baruch Shuv can go do a backflip into an empty pool. What a jerkwad.

-k

[Guest American Woman]

It's not being sold in Israel because of Israel's objections - and I believe Baruch Shuv has every right to be critical of the name. If you can cite a source confirming that he is "complaining because people in Minneapolis and Calgary are going to be driving around in an 'SS,'" I would appreciate it, but for the record, the SS will not be sold in Calgary - or anywhere else in Canada - either.

[shortlived]

Deciding to sell a car named SS in Israel is stupid. Whoever approved this should be reassigned to the mail room.

this is right up there with the nazi german style military helmet they ordered not being worn by all the troops, which resulted in a new helmet being brought into service.

Maybe not all Jews demonize the Nazi's maybe some are rebles or have that victim idolization thing going on.

Maybe not.

Well some jews are russian jews and its not like they are all no we can't buy box cars or wear red.

The Russians killed jews too.

Edited March 6, 2013 by shortlived

[Boges]

What about the Audi Himmler?

[Rue]

I thought the exact same thing when I read the original post.

Once upon a time, Pontiac used to re-badge their "Bonneville" as the "Parisienne" to sell in Canada, I believe. More recently, they rebadged the Australian-made Holden Monaro as the Pontiac GTO for US sale, as neither "Holden" nor "Monaro" had as much cachet as "Pontiac" and "GTO" with American buyers. GM has also been re-badging the Daewoo Hung Lo and Fung Wang cars as Chevrolets, because North American consumers don't want to drive a Fung Wang, and the "Daewoo" name inspires mistrust that ranks up there with names like "Enron" and "Madoff".

Long story short, GM is happy to change a vehicle's name to make it more palatable to the local marketplace, probably a lesson they learned when "Nova" sales tanked in Puerto Rico.

But when I actually read the article, this little bit jumped out at me:

Now, if GM was going to sell cars named "SS" in Israel, I think Baruch Shuv would have a point.

But Baruch Shuv isn't complaining because people are going to be driving around Tel Aviv in an "SS", he is complaining because people in Minneapolis and Calgary are going to be driving around in an "SS".

So as far as I'm concerned, Baruch Shuv can go do a backflip into an empty pool. What a jerkwad.

-k

You missed the point of what he said. He could care less if you or anyone else buys a car with SS on it. He cares what it might cause as a reaction in holocaust survivors. You want to drive around with the initials SS neither he nor anyone else will stop you. He was expressing his opinion like you have yours.

What some of us object to is the giggling about the initials SS the same we did not giggle when Mel Brooks did his slapstick routine, or when Hogan's Heroes was on t.v. You want to watch Hogan's heroes or get a kick out of Nazis dancing on stage go ahead. Its your right. I also have the right to not want you or anyone else lecture me on what I should tolerate.

You don't want people telling you what they feel fine....don't ask. He was asked. You want to giggle about the initials SS go ahead. Ask me to giggle along I won't I will express my opinion.

I am not asking you to not by a car with SS initials on it. I could care less.Giggle about the initials and how Jews or holocaust survivors react to it, then I might say something.

I call it like it is. This was a thread that attempted to belittle people who found the initials SS questionable. There was a tone of arrogance and self righteousness about it. The message was Jews should know their place and not over-react about the initials ss. That is when I spoke up and others should too.

Some people claim to support Israel and Jews, and yet like Mel Brooks and Jews and non Jews, say stupid thinhgs that show a lack of respect.

So you know, I am no person into censorship or telling you what to think.Not at all. But I will state my opinion and if anyone wants to giggle at anyone who survived the holocaust over their reactions to the initials SS I will challenge them over that insensitivity not their right to freedom of expression.

I agree 100% if you want to drive a car with a swastika or SS go ahead. Expect me to giggle about it, and I will tell you what I really think.

Let's bring the issue closer to home.

There is a restaurant in Hamilton with a confederate flag called Hillbilly Heaven. Some people have found the flag offensive. My attitude is if you find the flag offensive don't give the restaurant business and sure speak out if you want and explain why. But it stops there.

However I am not going to lecture a person who finds the flag insensitive anymore then I will lecture the person who put it up.

The tendency on this forum is for someone to commence their thread with a smug inference their opinion is the right one when ridiculing someoneelse's.

That is when I speak up.I could care less who you are and what your motives are. I criticize everyone equally with the same standard as they are quick to do with me because I won't back down on certain issues I believe in.

One of them is I will not stand by and listen to lecture from anyone on what is funny or not. It is up to all of us as individuals to define our limits and express them if we want especially when we feel people are being unfairly ridiculed or stereotyped for having the beliefs they have.

You missed the point. If someone called your SS car something you found offensive would you be so smug? Would the others who think this is a black and white issue? Hmmm? You going to tell me the US and Canada do not have words or initials that can't be used on products? That is the point.

Every country has standards of what it finds offensive and to pretend only your standrds are the appropriate ones misses the point.

No i would not expect you given what you said to give a sheeyit about what a Jew feels about the initials SS or the holocaust. Y ou made that clear.

What I do expect you to understand is that when people ridicule others because of not wanting their history trampled on, it comes back to bite the very same asses of the people trampling on the history of others. What goes around comes acround and if you can't get that point, so be it.

And no unlike one poster I have no need to cloak myself in victimhood to rationalize what I say. Its not a matter of being a victim that gives me a right to debate, its because I choose to speak up and empower myself and feel proud of my heritage not ashamed.

Unlike Mel Brooks I am not fueled by this need to giggle at myself to get cheap laughs. My humour is more dry probably something you would not understand and I do not expect you to. Carry on. Your opinion is no less or more valid than mine. We have both had our say.Now I am moving on from this thread.

[Rue]

this is right up there with the nazi german style military helmet they ordered not being worn by all the troops, which resulted in a new helmet being brought into service.

Maybe not all Jews demonize the Nazi's maybe some are rebles or have that victim idolization thing going on.

Maybe not.

Well some jews are russian jews and its not like they are all no we can't buy box cars or wear red.

The Russians killed jews too.

So did a lot of Christians and Muslims. That would be a lot of people to hate. Then there are my own fellow Jews. Some of us can be a pain in the ass too. No really.

[Rue]

It's not being sold in Israel because of Israel's objections - and I believe Baruch Shuv has every right to be critical of the name. If you can cite a source confirming that he is "complaining because people in Minneapolis and Calgary are going to be driving around in an 'SS,'" I would appreciate it, but for the record, the SS will not be sold in Calgary - or anywhere else in Canada - either.

Yes the point is each country/culture/society will dictate the limits of what is acceptable to its consumer audience. Cheverolet is not stupid. If it thinks it is pissing off its customers it will stop. Its a business. Cross cultural misuunderstandings happen all the time and people learn from them and move on.

In the grand scheme of things this was a minor mistake. Its blown out of perportionby those who can't resist the urge to use it to feel smug which is why I get all ornery. I drank prune juice this morning. I should be fine now.

[DogOnPorch]

Old car...beautiful. Not quite matching numbers.

Old...

Yeah...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNaFsizHe8M

Edited March 6, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[Canuckistani]

I had a '67 Chevelle. One of my favorite cars. Only a 283, but because the car is light it was pretty quick, handled well, just all around fun to drive. Novas were too small, Impalas too big. I really like those rear little wings by the window - copied from Ferrari I believe.

[The_Squid]

If SS stood for something other than Super Sport, they might have a point. Or if it was being sold in Israel, they might have a point. Neither is the case. Much ado over nothing.

Although, I do think most Israelis and/or Jews have the maturity to realize that in the year 2013, the initials SS on an object is not a Nazi plot to rid the earth of their "race".... although it's clear that not all of them are quite so mature...

[Wilber]

It does seem odd. I could see a problem if they were trying to sell it in Israel but this is a non issue.

As far as the car goes guess it will be based on the Holden platform used for the Camaro an late lamented Pontiac G8. Was sorry to see that one go as it was the only real North American V8 rear drive competition for Chrysler's 300 and Dodge Charger.

[Wilber]

BTW, Chev has been selling SS badged versions of several models since the mid 60's. Why has it all of a sudden become an issue?

[kimmy]

It's not being sold in Israel because of Israel's objections

Cite?

You point out that they're not even selling it in Canada... so it seems unlikely that they ever planned to sell it in Israel. The muscle car is as a distinctly American breed of vehicle-- it had a strong following in the United States and Canada, but nowhere else. So it seems highly unlikely to me that they ever planned to sell these in Israel. The muscle car was made for long highways and cheap gas, so it seems nonsensical to suggest that GM planned to sell these vehicles in a postage-stamp sized country where gas costs $10/gallon, but not in a country with a proven appetite for muscle cars, like Canada.

If they had planned to sell the car in Israel, they would not let a kerfuffle over the name stop them, they would sell it under a new name tailored to the local consumer, as they have with numerous other vehicles in the past.

- and I believe Baruch Shuv has every right to be critical of the name. If you can cite a source confirming that he is "complaining because people in Minneapolis and Calgary are going to be driving around in an 'SS,'" I would appreciate it, but for the record, the SS will not be sold in Calgary - or anywhere else in Canada - either.

He's not complaining about the name of a vehicle that's coming to Israel, he's complaining about a name that it appears will only be used in the United States.

-k

[Guest American Woman]

He's not complaining about the name of a vehicle that's coming to Israel, he's complaining about a name that it appears will only be used in the United States.

So now you admit that he's complaining about the name, not "complaining because people in Minneapolis and Calgary are going to be driving around in an 'SS,'" which are two different things, but in reality, it's "criticism" - and he has every right to criticize it as in "If the name 'Provo' has bad connotations in the UK, then by all means, don't sell it.."

You now say "it seems unlikely that they ever planned to sell it in Israel." So they should have just thought 'hmmmm, it seems unlikely that they will ever sell it here, so we won't voice our objections.' FYI, since "this little bit" apparently didn't "jump out at you," from the OP article in the other thread: "The South Korean car manufacturer Kia has said it does not plan to sell a model called the 'Provo' in the UK." Yet there was a parliamentary motion over the name in the UK: "Kia said the car was a special model planned for a Swiss motor show. Mr Campbell welcomed "Kia's swift action" in disavowing plans to sell a car with the Provo name." Note the lack of "in the UK" in that statement; as subsequent quotes make it clear that it's not a name they approve of.

Edited March 7, 2013 by American Woman

[Wilber]

Different names mean different things in different languages and cultures, that is why manufacturers don't use the same name everywhere. I doubt you could string any two capital letters together without offending someone, somewhere.

[Bonam]

I doubt you could string any two capital letters together without offending someone, somewhere.

Which is the point. If every acronym, name, or word that might offend someone couldn't be used, we'd run out of acceptable names pretty damn fast. As someone who had many relatives perish in the Holocaust, I can say I don't really give a damn if some car manufacturer wants to have a car model named "SS". It is obviously not a reference to the Schutzstaffel and should not be treated as such.

[Wilber]

"The use of this name is very inappropriate, Baruch Shuv told Yedioth Ahronoth. Shuv, who is also the head of the Orgainization of Partisans, Underground Fighters and Ghetto Rebels in Israel added that it is not a name that will bring them pride or success."

He's wrong about that. Many Chev SS models from the 60's and early 70's are very desireable. That's why they are still using it.

I think some folks just look for reasons to be offended.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Wilber

[Canuckistani]

"The use of this name is very inappropriate, Baruch Shuv told Yedioth Ahronoth. Shuv, who is also the head of the Orgainization of Partisans, Underground Fighters and Ghetto Rebels in Israel added that it is not a name that will bring them pride or success."

He's wrong about that. Many Chev SS models from the 60's and early 70's are very desireable. That's why they are still using it.

I think some folks just look for reasons to be offended.

I think the Ghetto Rebels are looking for some attention and it was a slow news day.