Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 The entire race, culture and religion.....is what i mean....they are not ready to be exposed to our culture yet...and we are not ready to solve all the problems they bring....until both sides can meet in the middle i say NEXT....and keep them out... The ones who want to leave are not the same as the ones who stay and participate in religious wars. You have to explain how you're going to show that they're not a net benefit to Canada, and then prove it. There is a path, but THEY must chose to take it on their own, THEY must solve these problems on their own, GW Bush try to solve it with the military option how did that work for him....And how is Iraq today..... Iraq is arguably better off than it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 While on tour , a young American service man burns the Koran, for the next 2 weeks we are cofined to our bases all across Afghan as the population calls for blood, "hundreds" of locals are killed by these raging crowds.....millions of dollars of damages....how is that not proof.....it was not just a few hundrd , it was thousands upon thousands....and it went viral, whipping across the middle east like a fire storm pull up news footage on the topic......These are the people we want to grant citizenship to....i say pass, no thanks.... Can provide a link to this event - I don't remember it. You have to PROVE your point. Not just say "there's violence over there, there's ignorance over there". Pretty much any country in the world could be made to sound inferior under those terms. Would you prevent people coming from Eastern Europe ? Northern Ireland ? Pretty much all of Africa ? Once you're done, where are we going to get our immigrants from ? Or maybe you think we shouldn't have immigration ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Iraq is arguably better off than it was. Other than the car bombs going off every day. http://www.france24.com/en/20130217-iraq-deadly-car-bombs-shiite-neighbourhoods-baghdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Can provide a link to this event - I don't remember it. You have to PROVE your point. Not just say "there's violence over there, there's ignorance over there". Pretty much any country in the world could be made to sound inferior under those terms. Would you prevent people coming from Eastern Europe ? Northern Ireland ? Pretty much all of Africa ? Once you're done, where are we going to get our immigrants from ? Or maybe you think we shouldn't have immigration ? Seriously? You've forgotten the Koran burning event in Afghanistan? Short memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 New culpa. There are many such acts, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 New culpa. There are many such acts, though. Oh I know! Everyday I have to shoo the folks burning Bibles and Bhagavad Gitas from my driveway before work. It's annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Not sure what you're talking about - I meant acts of violence and outrage in that part of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Not sure what you're talking about - I meant acts of violence and outrage in that part of the world. Not connected to religion, mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I wouldn't say that - post a link though if you have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Oh I know! Everyday I have to shoo the folks burning Bibles and Bhagavad Gitas from my driveway before work. It's annoying. Presumably this is sarcasm. So who does burn holy books on your driveway every day, or even once? How many bibles have Muslims burned? Actually, re reading your comment, nobody's burning bibles. So maybe they're burining Korans. We know those would not be Muslims, so what group is so angry it's trying to incite the Muslims by burining their holy book? Edited February 18, 2013 by Canuckistani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Presumably this is sarcasm. So who does burn holy books on your driveway every day, or even once? How many bibles have Muslims burned? You're the one with the agenda...why not tell me? I'm just reminding Michael that Muslims did go ape-Shi'ite as per Army Guy's description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 You're the one with the agenda...why not tell me? I'm just reminding Michael that Muslims did go ape-Shi'ite as per Army Guy's description. And, I want to point out that if we use that method to judge the value of peoples, there are a lot of others that we'll need to condemn as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Point of order please...the approved method of destroying an old Qu'ran is by burning respectfully so it is completely consumed, wrapping/burying in earth, or placing in flowing water (e.g. river). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 And, I want to point out that if we use that method to judge the value of peoples, there are a lot of others that we'll need to condemn as well. I'm ready. Are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 No, it's pointless to condemn peoples - they are fundamentally the same, and more importantly - changeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 No, it's pointless to condemn peoples - they are fundamentally the same, and more importantly - changeable. So you'd rather future generations deal with the problem. Understandable. We do it with debt. Why not religious insanity? Let 'em all in...no questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 So you'd rather future generations deal with the problem. Understandable. We do it with debt. Why not religious insanity? Let 'em all in...no questions asked. So rather than try to prove the point, you'd rather put arguments in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 So rather than try to prove the point, you'd rather put arguments in my mouth. Uhhhh...you were the one claiming that it's "pointless to condemn peoples". So if a religion does something "bad", it is not our place to condemn. Or are you attempting to state something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Uhhhh...you were the one claiming that it's "pointless to condemn peoples". So if a religion does something "bad", it is not our place to condemn. Or are you attempting to state something else? If a religion does something bad ? How do you differentiate between "a religion" and people who are religious then ? I would call an organized religion such as Catholicism a corporate religion, one that gives orders and can be held accountable. So, it's theoretically possible to condemn the Catholic "religion" for their actions. Not so with Southern Baptists, though, for they are - I believe - not organized around a central authority. The idea that a "Religion" does something bad involves somebody defining certain acts as being attributable to the religion as the cause. Religion as a causality to behavior hasn't been proven here - not even close. And we've been asking for some time. This includes, by the way, people who claim that Christianity did more harm than any force in history, yadda yadda. There are parts of the world that still have slavery, still burn witches - are we concerned about those too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Certainly way off topic of the OP, since it points out that "religious identity actually protects against violent radicalization," and "Well, the experience of immigration, immigrant communities, and religion are almost never the source of terrorism here in Canada. People are not bringing extremist ideas with them here, despite popular belief to the contrary. Furthermore, the most religious are the least radicalized. The findings of CSIS (as well as MI5 and some American intelligence experts) has found that Islamic Extremists, who are religious by definition of course, are typically radicalized politically well before they adopt their extreme religion stance. In other words, there is no direct path from being deeply religious to becoming radicalized, rather it seems the radical become deeply religious. And if these radicals didn't have religion to rally around it would be something like communism or whatever else is against the current order. It's said that 2nd gen immigrants become more interested in their original homeland again, as they seek to rediscover their roots. Most do this peacefully, but a few, it seems, do it by becoming radicalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) No, it's pointless to condemn peoples - they are fundamentally the same, and more importantly - changeable. Calling them "changeable", as opposed to saying culture is dynamic is concerning. Edited February 18, 2013 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Ok, but the subtle difference isn't intentional. By the way, we Di change begavior, therefore culture, by design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Culture does change, constantly. It's just saying that it's changeable sort of implies that we can and should force change upon other cultures from outside. That's probably not what you meant though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 If a religion does something bad ? How do you differentiate between "a religion" and people who are religious then ? I would call an organized religion such as Catholicism a corporate religion, one that gives orders and can be held accountable. So, it's theoretically possible to condemn the Catholic "religion" for their actions. Not so with Southern Baptists, though, for they are - I believe - not organized around a central authority. All religion is child abuse. The idea that a "Religion" does something bad involves somebody defining certain acts as being attributable to the religion as the cause. Religion as a causality to behavior hasn't been proven here - not even close. And we've been asking for some time. Bad. This includes, by the way, people who claim that Christianity did more harm than any force in history, yadda yadda. Indeed. I'm not Christian. There are parts of the world that still have slavery, still burn witches - are we concerned about those too ? Of course. Have you ever seen what goes on at one of those affairs? Nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Can provide a link to this event - I don't remember it. You have to PROVE your point. Not just say "there's violence over there, there's ignorance over there". Pretty much any country in the world could be made to sound inferior under those terms. Would you prevent people coming from Eastern Europe ? Northern Ireland ? Pretty much all of Africa ? Once you're done, where are we going to get our immigrants from ? Or maybe you think we shouldn't have immigration ? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9098242/Afghans-set-US-compound- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/9095113/Nato-hopes-to-head-off- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Afghanistan_Quran_burning_protests http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/22/world/asia/afghanistan-burned-qurans These are a few links, And although a can not find all the links for where demostrations were held....it was across the country...for Canadian troops in the area, such as Camp Phionix the route were red, meaning no travel for 2 weeks....becuase the demostrations lasted that long, and i think if you added up the death toll it would close on a thousand, i also want to note that these deathscame at the hands of the demostrators themselfs....I was actually surprise at the way NATO handled the situation locking every thing down, and waiting it out...Because it could have been at lot worse.... Lets not forget that 4 American soldiers were killed during these riots. and a Poop load injured....things could have gotten a lot worse...This is how these people act on a daily basis, you can say what ever you want about thier leaders , polictical leaders, but the inocent burning of the holy book and poof you got yourself a riot that makes vancouver look like a christian pray in. The media reports only thousands attending, thats crap, there are hundrds of NATO camps most were closed .... here is to many vid's to suggest different.... Violence is a way of life for not only Afghans but most middle eastern countries....I say most because some are tollerent of foreignors, until you cross thier lines, then find out the hard way, just how tollerent Muslims are....As for proving my piont the media does that every night....Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Afghanistan, pakistan, any stan really, Iran, thats off the top of my head.... Eastern Europe yes there are a few countries that would make the shit list, Russia included....and as you say there are alot of countries from across the globe....So where are you going to get immigrants from, from those nations not on the shit list, Here is a question for you why is it that the Avg Canadian family only has 2 children...is it because of lack of cash....would making it benificial to families to have 3 or 4 children be an option., how many more options are out there. I'm not again'st Immigration i'm about cherry picking off the list, thats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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