Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto UPDATES

[BubberMiley]

You like to raise topics and then accuse others of not letting them go. That's pretty lame.

But if the video is "illusive," then you concede it must exist. I figured as much.

[Shady]

You like to raise topics and then accuse others of not letting them go. That's pretty lame.

But if the video is "illusive," then you concede it must exist. I figured as much.

No, unfortuantely for Rob Ford birthers, the video is illusive and therefore doesn't exist. Just like a mirage. But don't let that stop you from participating with the other members of your echo chamber. You guys can keep discussing how the video must exist somehow, and how the diabolical mastermind Rob Ford is thwarting your efforts to uncover his litany of evil and nefarious plots.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Shady

[BubberMiley]

Mirages exist. I've seen them myself. Like illusions, they just aren't what they appear to be.

So are you saying the video exists but it is not what it appears to be, or are you saying it doesn't exist?

If you're going to brag about your vocabulary, you have to use words in a way that isn't self-contradictory.

Edited June 29, 2013 by BubberMiley

[Shady]

Mirages exist. I've seen them myself. Like illusions, they just aren't what they appear to be.

So are you saying the video exists but it is not what it appears to be, or are you saying it doesn't exist?

If you're going to brag about your vocabulary, you have to use words in a way that isn't self-contradictory.

Mirages are figments of your imagination. Just like the Rob Ford video. Anyways, I'm done with this thread, and the birtherism that passes for legitimate discussion. Have a fun time in your echo chamber. You guys can pat eachother on the back, tell eachother everything's gonna be ok, and tell eachother that the video absolutely positively exists!

[BubberMiley]

Mirages are figments of your imagination.

No, hallucinations are figments of your imagination. Mirages are a naturally occurring phenomena where light rays are bent, producing the appearance of water. You should look up words before you use them.

[Shady]

No, hallucinations are figments of your imagination. Mirages are a naturally occurring phenomena where light rays are bent, producing the appearance of water. You should look up words before you use them.

Yes, but the water doesn't really exist. Just like your video.

[BubberMiley]

Glad to help you in your struggle to express yourself better.

[Topaz]

Well now it looks like the media are going after information of the former chief of staff and four other formers staffers through the freedom of information. The problem now is its creating a backlog and now none of the FOI can re given out until Sept. To the media, have a meeting and all cancel the FOI except ONE and then make copies and share it. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/06/28/29_foi_requests_filed_for_emails_of_rob_ford_staffers.html

[Signals.Cpl]

I think we've established you don't believe he smokes crack. We've also established I do. Until something else happens, nothing is going to change.

I dont know if he smokes crack or not, I will not hang the man on the existence of a video just because some journalist said that Rob Ford MIGHT have been the guy in the video and he MIGHT have been smoking crack. This goes beyond innocent until proven guilty, this is making a man out to be guilty because someone said that he MIGHT have been somewhere and he might have been doing something... I love how its beating a dead horse to point out that we have no proof the video ever existed yet using the video to fuel other conspiracy theories is perfectly legitimate.

[Signals.Cpl]

Mirages exist. I've seen them myself. Like illusions, they just aren't what they appear to be.

So are you saying the video exists but it is not what it appears to be, or are you saying it doesn't exist?

If you're going to brag about your vocabulary, you have to use words in a way that isn't self-contradictory.

There may be a video of a white guy smoking crack, its just not our mayor doing it. The video may very well exist but it has not come out for a very good reason because it depicts a person that looks like Rob Ford but is not him thus kind of vindicates the mayor.

[Bryan]

Oh My God, it's a mirage

I'm tellin y'all it's a sabotage.

[BubberMiley]

I believe it's already been stated that I'm like Buddy Rich when I'm flying off the handle.

[Black Dog]

And a lot more than three people said that Iraq had WMDs so where are they since three people's opinion is infallible...

Who said they were infallible?

Source?

Read the thread.

Its one and the same, nice deflect though... you are using the fact that three people "saw" the video as proof that it exists and I am saying that three people being fooled is nothing new especially if 2 of the three are predisposed to believe anything negative about Mayor Ford whereas the third might be a sucker used only to lend some "credibility"... They might have seen a video of a fat white guy smoking crack but it could be just some random guy of the street thus the video is not available because if it were to come out it will be seen as proof that the whole controversy is engineered by his opponents...

There's a few options here:

-the video exists and is real

-a video exists and it's a fake

-no video exists

You're banging on door #3 when the balance of probabilities suggests option one or two. Like Shady, you're picking the dumbest hill to die on.

Yeah and I can say the same thing about dozens of professional doctors, police officers, military officers, politicians, businessmen, teachers, professors etc... who have had the trust of people yet they destroyed it...

So where is your evidence that they lied?

What I am saying is that two people who are predisposed to believe that Mayor Ford would do this saw what they wanted and expected to see and ignored what they didn't want to see while the third was just a poor sucker for credibility.

So where is your evidence that they lied?

You are right, Newspapers, magazines and Television Networks will NEVER buy evidence because of their policy... So if it was two journalists from Fox news claiming that Obama smoked Crack in the oval Office would you buy it simply because two professional journalists said so?

Depends on their story.

Luckily I am not the justice system nor am I associated in any way with the justice system... if this "evidence" were to go to court it would be laughed out very quickly.

Moving the goalposts again.

I'm sorry but this would apply for a wide range of things then, from murdering a hooker to killing a puppy simply because he has done stupid things in the past.

Not really, no. It's plausible precisely because it fits within the range of established behaviour. We don't know if he has a history of cruelty to animals or violence against women. We do know he likes a drinky-drink and a tokey-toke. The rumours about his substance abuse were circulating long before this crack video broke.

[Boges]

So now Ford's getting heat for not doing pressers last night during the "Great Flood".

No one died, no one got hurt. People got flooded basements and cars. Oh and a GO-Train got stranded in a river that wasn't there when the train disembarked.

[BubberMiley]

If Torontonians want a mayor capable of showing leadership, they should move to Calgary.

[Boges]

Yeah I'm sure many Torontonians would love to live in a city built upon Oilsand revenue.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Boges

[Black Dog]

So now Ford's getting heat for not doing pressers last night during the "Great Flood".

No one died, no one got hurt. People got flooded basements and cars. Oh and a GO-Train got stranded in a river that wasn't there when the train disembarked.

Large parts of the city were without power. The TTC was basically shut down and several roads were closed across the city. And Ford was parked in his driveway, idling his SUV.

You seem like a smart dude, so it's weird why you keep coming to this joker's defence.

[Boges]

Large parts of the city were without power. The TTC was basically shut down and several roads were closed across the city. And Ford was parked in his driveway, idling his SUV.

You seem like a smart dude, so it's weird why you keep coming to this joker's defence.

I think people have a kneejerk reaction to hate everything he does no matter what. I'll criticize him when it's warranted.

Apparently he was doing radio/TV interviews last night. And he's about to do a presser this morning.

That SUV thing came from a Tweet from the guy that does the City Hall beat from the Sun. This outrage over what he was doing last night was created by Twitter. His Twitter account was posting updates and people were posting snide remarks about wanting Calgary's Mayor.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Boges

[Wild Bill]

Large parts of the city were without power. The TTC was basically shut down and several roads were closed across the city. And Ford was parked in his driveway, idling his SUV.

You seem like a smart dude, so it's weird why you keep coming to this joker's defence.

I just don't understand this at all. The guy is only the mayor! What possible use would he be during this flood?

Would the good citizens of Toronto have expected him to stop the waters?

Or did they need their mayor to be standing with them, telling them "I share your pain!"?

I've never had any use for that sort of thing. If I'm in pain, I don't feel the slightest bit better just because someone else is hurting. All I care about is stopping my own pain first and then perhaps doing something to allay the pain someone else is feeling.

If my home is on fire send me a fireman, not someone to hold my hand.

[Boges]

If my basement is flooding and I'm without power. I don't really care what the mayor is saying. I want to hear from officials from the Hydro company and my Insurance Company. That Andy Byford guy was all over the media last night to give updates on TTC issues.

Apparently Doug Ford was directing traffic last night. But he was also giving out campaign literature for Doug Hollyday. (I heard on the radio)

Edited July 9, 2013 by Boges

[Black Dog]

I think people have a kneejerk reaction to hate everything he does no matter what. I'll criticize him when it's warranted.

Apparently he was doing radio/TV interviews last night. And he's about to do a presser this morning.

That SUV thing came from a Tweet from the guy that does the City Hall beat from the Sun. This outrage over what he was doing last night was created by Twitter. His Twitter account was posting updates and people were posting snide remarks about wanting Calgary's Mayor.

His twitter account (not him) was posting stuff like "the worst is over" even as the power was still out and thousands were stuck trying to find a way home. In between updates from the weekend's Ford fest, of course.

I just don't understand this at all. The guy is only the mayor! What possible use would he be during this flood?

Would the good citizens of Toronto have expected him to stop the waters?

Or did they need their mayor to be standing with them, telling them "I share your pain!"?

I've never had any use for that sort of thing. If I'm in pain, I don't feel the slightest bit better just because someone else is hurting. All I care about is stopping my own pain first and then perhaps doing something to allay the pain someone else is feeling.

If my home is on fire send me a fireman, not someone to hold my hand.

People expect leaders to lead and be seen to lead. Why do you think Nenshi and Guliani are so well regarded for their performance during crisis? It wasn't because they were bailing out basements or pulling people out of the rubble of the towers.

[Wild Bill]

People expect leaders to lead and be seen to lead. Why do you think Nenshi and Guliani are so well regarded for their performance during crisis? It wasn't because they were bailing out basements or pulling people out of the rubble of the towers.

Well, I guess this is another case of public perception. I don't share it but it would be silly to deny it exists.

Personally, it just seems silly to me but then again, Oprah bores my ass off!

If the ship is sinking I don't want to waste time looking for someone to make me feel good about it. To me, good leadership would be someone who can quickly organize some bailing.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Wild Bill

[BubberMiley]

Leaders aren't there to make you feel good. They're there to communicate what people are doing, what people should be doing, and to make sure everyone is on the same page. I never agreed with or much liked the mayor of Winnipeg in 1997, Susan Thompson, until she stepped up and really showed how important it is to have a stable, competent leader during a crisis. It makes the whole response work better. There's nothing "silly" about it.

[Wild Bill]

Leaders aren't there to make you feel good. They're there to communicate what people are doing, what people should be doing, and to make sure everyone is on the same page. I never agreed with or much liked the mayor of Winnipeg in 1997, Susan Thompson, until she stepped up and really showed how important it is to have a stable, competent leader during a crisis. It makes the whole response work better. There's nothing "silly" about it.

Well, that may be true, Bubba. Still, we should consider the nature of this event. It wasn't something like the Red River floods that happened over several weeks. It was an overnight thing - a huge thunderstorm.

The power went out. The streets were flooded. It was the middle of the night. By the time they could have gotten in contact with Ford, let alone got to him and taken him somewhere to start coordinating action, it would be over!

We're talking only a few hours here! That is not enough time to begin any sort of action. By the time they could have gotten Ford to a microphone it was over. The water was well on the way to draining out of the system.

The reason it was so intense a problem is that Toronto, like many cities, has allowed much new development without investing in more sewer infrastructure. We have similar although smaller floods here in Hamilton all the time. Without more sewers when you get a huge amount of rain in a very short time it backs up and floods over the streets.

When the rain stops, the water very quickly drains away.

Hell, I bet many people slept through the entire thing!

I'm surprised no one has been chasing the police over their role in this event. Citizens have been calling talk radio shows saying they saw nary a cop anywhere, with flooded sections, stranded GO trains and countless intersections with dead traffic lights.

This IS prime vacation time for cops! Obviously, they were not available when we needed them. Still, the same factors apply to them as to the mayor. By the time they could have gotten organized it was already over. They would have been of great help getting things back to normal, however.

Kinda seems to me that if Ford invented a cure for cancer some folks would jump on him for putting doctors out of work. Things must be taken in context and real world realities must apply.

[BubberMiley]

Well, that may be true, Bubba. Still, we should consider the nature of this event. It wasn't something like the Red River floods that happened over several weeks. It was an overnight thing - a huge thunderstorm.

True enough. While he was no means a "super-mayor" sitting in his driveway so he could enjoy the air conditioning in his car, he may well have been stuck in a lake if he tried to get to work. Who's to say.