shortlived Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 Your stupid analogy falls apart when you realize that the position you hold is that it should be illegal for doctors to separate twins. huh? Quote My posts are sometimes edited to create spelling errors if you see one kindly notify me. These edits do not show up as edits as my own edits do, so it is either site moderation, or third party moderation. This includes changing words completely. If a word looks out of place in a message kindly contact me so I can correct it. These changes are not exclusive to this website, and is either a form of net stalking by a malicious hacker, or perhaps government, it has been ongoing for years now.
Canuckistani Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 It doesn't matter whether you consider a fetus a child from the time it's an embryo or even at the moment of conception when it becomes a zygote. No person has the right to use another person's body against their will. If the mother doesn't want to be hooked into another human being, keeping it alive for 9 months, she has every right to be disconnected from that person, whether it's in her uterus or in a hospital bed. It's completely unethical to require someone to use their body to keep another person alive when it is against their wishes. This is why we don't harvest organs from people, ie, you can't be forced to give up a kidney or even give blood and bone marrow. Refusing to keep someone alive with your body is not the same thing as murdering someone. If you can't understand the conceptual difference between those two things then the entire abortion debate is lost on you. I think it's quite reasonable to ask the woman who's body is being used to make up her mind one way or another after some reasonable amount of time - 22 weeks say. And in fact that's what we do, since the CMA takes that position and we don't have docs performing abortions after that time unless absolutely necessary. It would be nice to have this codified into law, but I'll take what we've got now if the hardcore anti-abortionists are going to come out. Quote
Moonbox Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) i think you're confusing me with the op because not once in this thread did I call "people with strict Christian beliefs" lunatics. You're right! Sorry! I've edited now. I'm pretty much with you page for page on this debate. Edited February 2, 2013 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
jbg Posted February 2, 2013 Report Posted February 2, 2013 Your stupid analogy falls apart when you realize that the position you hold is that it should be illegal for doctors to separate twins. huh? You're trying to equate abortion to disconnecting a fetus from the mother. While I happen to be largely pro-choice the procedure is far more than a disconnection. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Newfoundlander Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 The percentage of MPs who voted for Woolworth's motion last year was almost identical to the percentage of Canadians who don't support abortins. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 ..... You don't have to believe in it yourself, but people with faith are generally brought up that way and know no other way to live. We can be thankful that our legislative system has evolved towards the practical and tangible and away from religious intangibles, and that our legal systems are based purely on logic and reason instead of belief. True, but consider that the person insisting on "abortion rights" before and after viability are demanding that other individual(s) support and perform the procedure. I guess those who won't do it are "lunatics" and that's why some Canadians still have to get abortions in the "conservative crazy" USA. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 My opinions on abortion are based on science. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, lefties have decided that its an issue that science, logic and reason don't apply. Go figure. Quote
Smallc Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 My opinions on abortion are based on science. Yeah, we've all seen your 'science' on this issue. Quote
Sleipnir Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) If a baby survives an abortion, what becomes of them? Abortion: the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. A baby cannot survive an abortion. To suggest otherwise, like you did shady, would be an oxymoron. Edited February 3, 2013 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
betsy Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) So if abortion is murder, is taking something like the morning after pill murder or the birth control pill too? Good question. With the availability of birth control pills and morning after pills, why do we still have to resort to murdering babies at all - subjecting them to torture and pain in the process, with the sanction and approval of society - even when some of these babies have actually made it out of the womb alive? You'd think those pills would've made abortion a thing of the past! And this same bunch who strongly supports these murders are usually the first ones to show outrage over violations of "human rights." A lot of them would fight for baby seals, yet they see nothing wrong with killing human babies. Sickeningly hypocritical no matter how you look at it, especially when the wee victims are completely helpless and at their mercy. Edited February 3, 2013 by betsy Quote
Shady Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 Abortion: the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy. A baby cannot survive an abortion. To suggest otherwise, like you did shady, would be an oxymoron. They do, and have survived. Keep your eyes and ears shut flat-earther. Quote
Shady Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 Yeah, we've all seen your 'science' on this issue. You must be ignorant of how many weeks into a pregnancy an unborn baby's heart begins to beat, etc. probably from skipping biology to smoke dope. Quote
Smallc Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 You must be ignorant of how many weeks into a pregnancy an unborn baby's heart begins to beat, etc. probably from skipping biology to smoke dope. I've never even smoked a cigarette, let alone marijuana. Again, we've all seen your claimed science...it's just not. Quote
Shady Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 I've never even smoked a cigarette, let alone marijuana. Again, we've all seen your claimed science...it's just not. Not my science. I don't decide when an unborn baby's heart begins to beat. Nice strawman though. Quote
Smallc Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 Not my science. I don't decide when an unborn baby's heart begins to beat. You've picked one arbitrary line to say it's the beginning of the life, rather than another (conception, birth, higher brain activity, lung function, etc). That doesn't mean that you're right. Quote
Shady Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 You've picked one arbitrary line to say it's the beginning of the life, rather than another (conception, birth, higher brain activity, lung function, etc). That doesn't mean that you're right. Nope, it's not arbitrary at all. And I'd include all of those that you mentioned. Also, I'm not against abortion, but I am after a certain point. Anyways, heartbeat, brain activity, lung function, etc all happen around the same time. Quote
Smallc Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 heartbeat, brain activity, lung function, etc all happen around the same time. And how many abortions are performed in Canada after this time "around the same time" Quote
Smallc Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) You must be ignorant of how many weeks into a pregnancy an unborn baby's heart begins to beat, etc. BTW, this happens before many women even know for sure that they're pregnant - 22 days. The first measurable brain activity is far after this, around the 12th week. Higher brain activity, and the ability to survive outside the womb (naturally or with significant technological intervention), come much later. All of these are rather arbitrary lines. Edited February 3, 2013 by Smallc Quote
Sleipnir Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 They do, and have survived. Keep your eyes and ears shut flat-earther. They do not survived, otherwise it wouldn't be termed abortion. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Smallc Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 Typical Shady hit and run, it seems. Quote
Shady Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 They do not survived, otherwise it wouldn't be termed abortion. You can play with semantics, but when a baby survives termination, it is what it is. Whatever you want to call it. Quote
Shady Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) All of these are rather arbitrary lines. They're the same so-called arbitrary lines we use to determine death. Besides, many of our laws are arbitrary. Speeding, drinking ages, driving ages, degrees of homicide, degrees of arson, degrees of theft. Doesn't mean sensible laws can't be applied to abortion as well. Well, unless you're an abortion fanatic that is. Edited February 3, 2013 by Shady Quote
punked Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 They're the same so-called arbitrary lines we use to determine death. Besides, many of our laws are arbitrary. Speeding, drinking ages, driving ages, degrees of homicide, degrees of arson, degrees of theft. Doesn't mean sensible laws can't be applied to abortion as well. Well, unless you're an abortion fanatic that is. ......Well unless you are a man wants to control a womens body. Should be how your last sentence reads. Quote
Shady Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 ......Well unless you are a man wants to control a womens body. Should be how your last sentence reads. I don't wanna control anyones body. But I do want to recognize science, logic and reason though. Quote
BC_chick Posted February 3, 2013 Report Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) And this same bunch who strongly supports these murders are usually the first ones to show outrage over violations of "human rights." A lot of them would fight for baby seals, yet they see nothing wrong with killing human babies. Sickeningly hypocritical no matter how you look at it, especially when the wee victims are completely helpless and at their mercy. Yep, nothing like sitting down to a plate of dead farm animals, shrugging off the 'collateral damage' civilians getting killed in the name of war, cheering on the death of convicts, all the while belting out your self-righteous indignation about abortion. Nope, nothing hypocritical there at all. Edited February 3, 2013 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
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