Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I only believe in discussing specific and valid complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Like the audit, for example? Some things shouldn't be toned down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Audits don't really have a tone, as I discussed with TimG. They are supposed to be an exploration of facts. I don't see why somebody would ask for the audit to be 'toned down'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Audits don't really have a tone, as I discussed with TimG. They are supposed to be an exploration of facts. I don't see why somebody would ask for the audit to be 'toned down'. You have asked for the discussion of the audit to be toned down though, several times. I don't really understand. I'm not even sure what your position is. Let the discussion take its course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Actually, it's obligated by law. So change the law. Then they can go work for a living like the rest of us. I don't think any reasonable interpretation of a treatie signed in the eighteen hundreds required us to pay for them to sit on their asses for ht enext three centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 So change the law. You're free to propose that; write to your MP. However, until that happens, First Nations governments will receive funds from the federal government as budgeted by parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 You have asked for the discussion of the audit to be toned down though, several times. I don't really understand. I'm not even sure what your position is. Let the discussion take its course. I have stated that if we`re going to expect the situation to improve, then we need to be specific in our criticisms, responsible in our discussion and pragmatic in our expectations. Go through this thread and find people making general claims, unsubstantiated accusations and calling for the gauntlet to be thrown down unless immediate results are guaranteed - which we know won`t happen. I ask for those 3 things only. Feel free, though, to chastise posters like westguy who post that the funds were stolen and taken to Vegas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 So change the law. Then they can go work for a living like the rest of us. I don't think any reasonable interpretation of a treatie signed in the eighteen hundreds required us to pay for them to sit on their asses for ht enext three centuries. This is what I`m talking about - being pragmatic. It`s just just the law it`s the constitution. Do you think that this process will just happen ? Furthermore, what happens when you have a people just scraping by and you cut them to zero ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Feel free, though, to chastise posters like westguy who post that the funds were stolen and taken to Vegas. You'll find that I don't respond to posters when I don't consider their views to be well thought out. I find your's to be generally. I'm not really sure what you're doing in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I know for a fact that a reserve near me has now spent close to $10,000 on expenses related to INM and it's protests. That's one reserve. Imagine the amount of money being wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Furthermore, what happens when you have a people just scraping by and you cut them to zero ? People in need would still receive support outside of the current context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 You'll find that I don't respond to posters when I don't consider their views to be well thought out. I find your's to be generally. I'm not really sure what you're doing in this case. I'm refusing to accept substandard dialogue on this issue is what I'm doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 People in need would still receive support outside of the current context. Ok - so it wouldn't be zero. The point is - are we ready to deal with violence on this ? Is that what we want to do - to take a hard line, punish and see what happens ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'm refusing to accept substandard dialogue on this issue is what I'm doing. Most of the dialogue has not been substandard though. It's nice to say that we should only look to the future, but the future only comes through the recognition of past mistakes and problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ok - so it wouldn't be zero. The point is - are we ready to deal with violence on this ? Is that what we want to do - to take a hard line, punish and see what happens ? Violence doesn't nee to occur, but straight talk does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckistani Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ok - so it wouldn't be zero. The point is - are we ready to deal with violence on this ? Is that what we want to do - to take a hard line, punish and see what happens ? Maybe I'm missing the context here, but a hard line IMO wouldn't be about punishment but having a bottom line. If the other side then threatens or perpetrates violence, it needs to be dealt with the same way as any other criminal action. That may involve punishment at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 This is what I`m talking about - being pragmatic. It`s just just the law it`s the constitution. Do you think that this process will just happen ? Furthermore, what happens when you have a people just scraping by and you cut them to zero ? Welfare is available in the cities. So change the constitution. It's not undoable. If the natives cause too much trouble, or the idiots in black robes award absurd sums of money I bet there\d be an awful lot of support for the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ok - so it wouldn't be zero. The point is - are we ready to deal with violence on this ? Is that what we want to do - to take a hard line, punish and see what happens ? Hell, the natives are threatening violence even before they get to boycott the meeting they demanded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ok - so it wouldn't be zero. The point is - are we ready to deal with violence on this ? Is that what we want to do - to take a hard line, punish and see what happens ? Any violence would be instigated by the First Nations, and it would be an extremely regrettable decision on their part and wouldn't get them anywhere. That would galvanize popular support against them AND set the Courts against them as well. What were really want here are honest, good faith dialogue and intentions. Theresa Spence has proven that she's not trustworthy . Her track record as well as recent behaviour have pretty much proven she's not acting in good faith nor is she willing to cooperate or compromise. For positive results, both sides need to have good faith and good intentions. If you want positive results from dialogue, don't throw your support behind a duplicitous idiot like her, who's moronic escapades have made the situation far worse than it needs to be, and expect the other side to have any measure of comfort/trust, or to listen fairly and seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Violence doesn't nee to occur, but straight talk does. Straight talk is all I'm asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 So get Theresa Spence out of the picture and get a spokesperson with some credibility and common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hell, the natives are threatening violence even before they get to boycott the meeting they demanded... Really ? How much of a threat is it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 ....Her track record ... have pretty much proven she's not acting in good faith nor is she willing to cooperate or compromise. This is an amazing statement considering The Crown has been dithering and not acting in good faith for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 If only Canada had followed the USA's example in dealing with aboriginals, right? Thanks for stopping by again bush. As always, your input is invaluable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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