bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 I've heard rumours about corruption in Ontario too, but since I live in BC, I can attest to the corruption that keeps cropping up here as well so I really don't see how Canada can be held up as an example of taking money out of the equation though maybe we have less as we have a smaller population. Agreed.....chronic corruption in Canada is on a smaller absolute scale. And even when prosecuted, few ever see any serious prison time, unlike in the U.S. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 Our corruption score of 8.7 which puts us in 10th place. The US is 7.1 in 24th place. We're closer to NZ in 1st at 9.5 than we are to the US. Take Quebec out of the equation, and I'm sure we'd move right up the ladder. Nice try....but Quebec is part of Canada. Canadian lobbying and corruption exists in spades, regardless of feel good rankings. Just because it's for smaller amounts of graft money does not change the deed. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Canuckistani Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 Nice try....but Quebec is part of Canada. Canadian lobbying and corruption exists in spades, regardless of feel good rankings. Just because it's for smaller amounts of graft money does not change the deed. Nice try but we're no 10, you're 24. Corruption exists in every country, but it's much less in ours than yours. Just another thing that makes this a better place to live. And again, Angus when talking about money in politics wasn't talking about corruption but the perfectly legal or at least not illegal influence of money on politicians. You do have us beat there, in spades. Just another thing that makes this a better place to live. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 Nice try but we're no 10, you're 24. Corruption exists in every country, but it's much less in ours than yours. If I only had a loonie for every "it's much less in ours than yours".................... Quote
Canuckistani Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 I guess you'd have to match me in dollars for every time an American says "but you have x y z" too, so there's no difference. False equivalency - it's the American way. There is a difference, which is why this is a better place to live. But you're right, the American way is to say "it's so much more than yours...." Enjoy it. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 I guess you'd have to match me in dollars for every time an American says "but you have x y z" too, so there's no difference. False equivalency - it's the American way. There is a difference, which is why this is a better place to live. If it's so much better a place to live, then why do more Canadians emigrate to the U.S. ? More immigrants also find their way to the USA. But you're right, the American way is to say "it's so much more than yours...." Enjoy it. And your way to define an identity is to not be American. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 I guess you'd have to match me in dollars for every time an American says "but you have x y z" too Yeah, it's a b*tch to have someone point it out that Canada does it too, eh? So much more pleasant when you can just criticize the U.S. and pretend it doesn't exist in Canada. Damn those pesky Americans for pointing out the reality! so there's no difference Yeah, actually, there is. I don't base how great my country is on what other countries do/don't do. It is what it is - and that's good enough for me. False equivalency - it's the American way. There is a difference, which is why this is a better place to live. "Better place to live" gets me a loonie, too. But you're right, the American way is to say "it's so much more than yours...." Enjoy it. That's the American way, is it? Quote
sharkman Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 If I only had a loonie for every "it's much less in ours than yours".................... I love that, it's so Canadian! Some kind of inverse "mine's bigger than yours" contest. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 I love that, it's so Canadian! Some kind of inverse "mine's bigger than yours" contest. omg. That's too funny! Thanks for that - I needed a laugh after the Packers lost in the final 3 seconds. Quote
Canuckistani Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Yeah, it's a b*tch to have someone point it out that Canada does it too, eh? So much more pleasant when you can just criticize the U.S. and pretend it doesn't exist in Canada. Damn those pesky Americans for pointing out the reality! Who does pretend that? This is just you whistling past the graveyard with your "you do it too..." I won't talk about getting a dollar for that because the only place I've really seen this is from the two defenders of the American way on this forum. "You do it toooooooooo. We have no problem because you do it tooooooo." 20 kids shot in an elementary school - you do it toooooo. Extremes of poverty - you do it tooooooo. Lack of social moblity - you do it tooooooo. Money driving politics - you do it toooooooo. Does it echo when you stick your head in the sand like that?"Better place to live" gets me a loonie, too. Well, you do need some recompense for having to live where you do. Edited December 31, 2012 by Canuckistani Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 Read Powell's memo. A lot of ridiculous mumbo-jumbo, ie: a complete mis-characterization of Ralph Nader. On the other hand, he foretold some things the economic right would try to spearhead since the Reagan admin. I wouldn't over-emphasize his credit to the movement though. It's corporate shills and paranoid anti-commie/fascist folks who still need to be fought against, not opponents of the "American system". Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Black Dog Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 And your way to define an identity is to not be American. You say that like it's a bad thing. Quote
Argus Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Posted December 31, 2012 The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act did not revoke all of Glass-Steagal, as some provisions were left intact. The vote in Congress was not "unanimous", as very few things ever are: Fine. But it was this which freed up the banks to act as brokerage houses and so involve themselves in risky financial investments. And it was this which allowed for the explosion in derivatives, which was why a us mortgage bubble bursting nearly took down the world financial system. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Posted December 31, 2012 Yeah...just small stuff in a much smaller country. Just average run-of-the-mill Canadian corruption that nobody really cares about, except for maybe AdScam that turfed the "natural" ruling party of the nation. There is tons of similar corruption throughout the United States, as you well know. But we're speaking of federal corruption which is, in the United States, legal, and so far more widespread than in most western countries. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Posted December 31, 2012 I've heard rumours about corruption in Ontario too, but since I live in BC, I can attest to the corruption that keeps cropping up here as well so I really don't see how Canada can be held up as an example of taking money out of the equation though maybe we have less as we have a smaller population. The difference is our MPs don't need millions of dollars to run for office, and they don't need it because their opponents don't have it either. What you can spend is limited by law, and corporations aren't allowed to donate any money at all. What individuals can donate is limited. Nor do we allow third-party campaigning like the do down south. So when MPs do get into office they're not beholden to corporate backers in the way American politicians are. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Posted December 31, 2012 If it's so much better a place to live, then why do more Canadians emigrate to the U.S. ? More immigrants also find their way to the USA.. Because it's warmer. And this chest thumping ugly-American trolling of yours is why I put your in my ignore file last year. I'm starting to reconsider taking you out. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Yeah, actually, there is. I don't base how great my country is on what other countries do/don't do. It is what it is - and that's good enough for me. Yes. For Americans, ignorance truly is bliss. "This is the greatest country in the world!" "You ever been to any other countries?" "Well, no." "You know anything about other countries?" "Well, no." "Then how do you know yours is best?" "You some kinda Communist!?" Edited December 31, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) You say that like it's a bad thing. America is not a bad country. It just needs some tweaking. Americans need to stop basing all their decisions on how high their taxes are and instead focus on how good their communities are. You can't have a good community without paying taxes, but many of them don't seen to get that. Me, me, me is not a way to run a society. Since 1950, the average size of the American home has gone from 930 square feet to 2300 square feet. No wonder they can't afford to pay any taxes! hus government is starved of funds. And Americans will still tell you they pay sky-high taxes. Well in terms of tax revenue as a share of GDP it's not surprising Nordic countries are above 40%, as are Germany, France, Belgium, and some others. Most European nations are in the mid to high thirties. Canada is fairly low at 32%. The US is at 26%, the lowest in the western world. But ask me this, is having a bigger house worth it when it comes at the expense of good schools, lower crime, lower poverty, better health care, decent pensions and modern, clean, well-maintained infrastructure? Edited December 31, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) del Edited December 31, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Yes. For Americans, ignorance truly is bliss. "This is the greatest country in the world!" "You ever been to any other countries?" "Well, no." "You know anything about other countries?" "Well, no." "Then how do you know yours is best?" "You some kinda Communist!?" Speaking of ignorance, this post of yours is a very good example. Edited December 31, 2012 by American Woman Quote
Argus Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Posted December 31, 2012 Speaking of ignorance, this post of yours is a very good example. On the contrary. It perfectly exemplifies your statement that you don't need to compare America to any other country to know how great a country it is. I think your problem with it is it makes you like ignorant. But that's not my fault. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest American Woman Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) On the contrary. It perfectly exemplifies your statement that you don't need to compare America to any other country to know how great a country it is. I think your problem with it is it makes you like ignorant. But that's not my fault. I know good from bad, right from wrong, success from failure - without comparisons to others. I don't need to compare the U.S. to other countries the way so many have to compare Canada to the U.S. to know what kind of country it is. If Canada can't sand on its own merits, if that's not what your opinion is based on, I think that "makes you like ignorant. But that's not my fault." As for your little made up dialog.... Edited December 31, 2012 by American Woman Quote
Black Dog Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 Yes. For Americans, ignorance truly is bliss. "This is the greatest country in the world!" "You ever been to any other countries?" "Well, no." "You know anything about other countries?" "Well, no." "Then how do you know yours is best?" "You some kinda Communist!?" Careful Argus: she might report you. Quote
Canuckistani Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 Careful Argus: she might report you. For what? Quote
eyeball Posted December 31, 2012 Report Posted December 31, 2012 It wasn't very long ago that Argus and I were considered "the right wing" here at MLW, and now we're pinko commie leftists, according to those that now consider themselves "the right". I don't think I've changed. Some of my positions have evolved, but at the core, I still believe in the same things I always have. I think that "the right" has changed, and the things that I believe in aren't part of what the new "right" believes. A phrase Argus used a long time ago that stuck with me is "a conservative is somebody who uses 2 nails when 1 might be good enough." By that standard, I don't think today's "conservatives" are very conservative. I think real conservatism is characterized by prudence, cautious management of resources, a preference for policies and traditions that have proven their value, and an aversion to high risk ventures and rash decisions. I don't think any of these characteristics describe today's "right". The old right believes in the rule of law. The new right believes in unquestioning obeisance to authority. There's a huge difference, and I don't think the "new right" types quite grasp what it is. -k It's probably that second nail Argus was talking about. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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