The US, gun violence, and gun control

[BubberMiley]

2010: 10,228 drunk driving deaths, 31,513 deaths from firearm. Source: CDC.

You're likely just citing deliberate firearms deaths and not accidental ones too.

Ummm, but there's no problem here. Look the other way!

[bush_cheney2004]

Ummm. Yes.

2010: 10,228 drunk driving deaths, 31,513 deaths from firearm. Source: CDC.

OK...let's ban suicides too.

[Canuckistani]

There are many existing "restrictions" on gun ownership in the United States. I don't care what you do in Canada.

Restrictions are not banning. You're restricted in how you use your car, what kind of car you can own, where you can drive it, etc as well. Cars aren't banned in your country, neither are guns.

For somebody who doesn't care what we do in Canada, you sure have an awful lot to say about it. I think you're either fooling yourself or trying to fool me.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Canuckistani

[Black Dog]

You're likely just citing deliberate firearms deaths and not accidental ones too.

Ummm, but there's no problem here. Look the other way!

Nope, those are total: homicides, accidents and suicides.

[Guest American Woman]

Ummm. You're right. It's more like there are seven times as many gun deaths per day (over 200) compared to deaths as a result of drinking and driving (about 30).

Ummm. Yes.

2010: 10,228 drunk driving deaths, 31,513 deaths from firearm. Source: CDC.

Sorry, folks, but if you're going to include suicides and accidental deaths in the gun death statistics, you're going to have to include all alcohol related deaths, too - not just drunk driving.

With that in mind:

Homicides involving guns - 11,105 in 2010

Alcohol-impaired traffic fatalities - 10,228 in 2010.

Edited December 18, 2012 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Homicides involving guns - 11,105 in 2010

Alcohol-impaired traffic fatalities - 10,228 in 2010.

Seems fair to me, all alcohol related deaths would be higher. Didn't somebody whine about apples-to-apples yesterday?

[Canuckistani]

He said 3 times as man

Sorry, folks, but if you're going to include suicides and accidental deaths in the gun death statistics, you're going to have to include all alcohol related deaths, too - not just drunk driving.

With that in mind:

Homicides involving guns - 11,105 in 2010

Alcohol-impaired traffic fatalities - 10,228 in 2010.

He said 3 times as many people die by gun as by drunk driving, and he's exactly right.

[BubberMiley]

Seems fair to me, all alcohol related deaths would be higher. Didn't somebody whine about apples-to-apples yesterday?

Why would suicides not count? Seems to me somebody's whining (and moving the goalposts) because he was so very wrong by saying more people die from drunk driving.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why would suicides not count? Seems to me somebody's whining (and moving the goalposts) because he was so very wrong by saying more people die from drunk driving.

Because the comparison and topic was intentional homicides as in shootings. When I pointed out that many more people are shot around the world, it was discounted as not relevant to "mass shootings", Historically, there have ben more alcohol related deaths in the USA, often linked to "shootings".

Edited December 18, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Black Dog]

Because the comparison and topic was intentional homicides as in shootings. When I pointed out that many more people are shot around the world, it was discounted as not relevant to "mass shootings", Historically, there have ben more alcohol related deaths in the USA, often linked to "shootings".

That's a funny way to describe gun deaths linked to alcohol.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's a funny way to describe gun deaths linked to alcohol.

It's true....alcohol is involved in many gun homicides:

In 2007, 34.5% of suicide and homicide victims in the United States had alcohol in their systems at the time of death, and 60% of those were considered acutely intoxicated.

[Guest American Woman]

It's true....alcohol is involved in many gun homicides:

In 2007, 34.5% of suicide and homicide victims in the United States had alcohol in their systems at the time of death, and 60% of those were considered acutely intoxicated.

As for suicides - approximately 25-30 percent of suicides are attributed to alcohol - and as Canada's suicide statistics show, one doesn't need a gun to commit suicide (and as I pointed out, the legal drinking age is lower in Canada than the U.S, even though research shows raising the age to 21 saves lives). And then, of course, there's the deaths due to alcohol's effects on the body's organs.

If someone is going to speak of all gun-related deaths, they need to speak of all alcohol-related deaths.

Edited December 18, 2012 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

If someone is going to speak of all gun-related deaths, they need to speak of all alcohol-related deaths.

I wonder how many alcohol-related deaths would be deaths if there weren't guns involved. One doesn't need a gun to kill someone else or oneself...but it makes the job a lot easier.

[Guest American Woman]

I wonder how many alcohol-related deaths would be deaths if there weren't guns involved. One doesn't need a gun to kill someone else or oneself...but it makes the job a lot easier.

Look at Canada's suicide rate compared to the U.S. for your answer. Seems Canadians don't need the ease of a gun to kill themselves at the same rate as Americans - as alcohol plays into 25-30% of suicides.

Edited December 18, 2012 by American Woman

[Canuckistani]

I wonder how many alcohol-related deaths would be deaths if there weren't guns involved. One doesn't need a gun to kill someone else or oneself...but it makes the job a lot easier.

A gun makes killing somebody else easier because they are trying not to be killed and will attempt to get away. For suicide you can jump off a bridge or in front of a bus or slice your wrists just as easily as using a gun. Mass murders are facilitated by guns, especially rapid fire ones with large magazines. Suicides, not so much.

[bush_cheney2004]

Look at Canada's suicide rate compared to the U.S. for your answer. Seems Canadians don't need the ease of a gun to kill themselves at the same rate as Americans - as alcohol plays into 25-30% of suicides.

Good catch....I think we had already established that more and more Canadians are saying "goodbye cruel world" via hangings and suffocation. Where there's a will..there's a way.

[Black Dog]

A gun makes killing somebody else easier because they are trying not to be killed and will attempt to get away. For suicide you can jump off a bridge or in front of a bus or slice your wrists just as easily as using a gun. Mass murders are facilitated by guns, especially rapid fire ones with large magazines. Suicides, not so much.

I'm betting a firearm can often be the difference between a suicide attempt and a suicide completed. hanging, slicing your writs, overdose: you might get found in time, you might change your mind after you've started. Hard to change your mind when it is on the wall behind you, though.

[BubberMiley]

_{It's true that if you want to defend guns in the wake of children getting murdered by them, you can make up all kinds of weird arguments in favour of them. A suicide could be completed by hanging just as easily. A mass murder could be committed with a bomb. It just shows how desperate and deranged even so called "regular" gun owners are when defending their right to have instruments of mass murder under their bed.}

[Canuckistani]

I'm betting a firearm can often be the difference between a suicide attempt and a suicide completed. hanging, slicing your writs, overdose: you might get found in time, you might change your mind after you've started. Hard to change your mind when it is on the wall behind you, though.

well, it might reduce the suicide rate among men a bit. But since men kill themselves far more often than women, while making many less attempts, looks like they are more determined and will find another way. I think reducing access to high powered weapons will do more to prevent mass shootings and gang killings vs preventing suicides.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm betting a firearm can often be the difference between a suicide attempt and a suicide completed. hanging, slicing your writs, overdose: you might get found in time, you might change your mind after you've started. Hard to change your mind when it is on the wall behind you, though.

So are you saying there would be a whole lot more suicides in Canada but for your gun laws? Since your suicide rate is already equal to ours - what would it become? And why would so many more Canadians than Americans want to kill themselves?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... I think reducing access to high powered weapons will do more to prevent mass shootings and gang killings vs preventing suicides.

Agreed, and the data from Canada supports this idea, with suicide methods other than firearm being chosen with more frequency as laws got more restrictive.

[GostHacked]

So are you saying there would be a whole lot more suicides in Canada but for your gun laws? Since your suicide rate is already equal to ours - what would it become? And why would so many more Canadians than Americans want to kill themselves?

Because they wish they were Americans?

[bush_cheney2004]

...And why would so many more Canadians than Americans want to kill themselves?

Because they are happier, as in Finland, with very high suicide rates. Another member posted that religious people commit less suicide, so blame God.

[GostHacked]

Because they are happier, as in Finland, with very high suicide rates. Another member posted that religious people commit less suicide, so blame God.

Only because they were born again and got SAVED !!!!! YEAhhhhh!!

[BubberMiley]

Actually there are more gun deaths in 10 states. than motor vehicle deaths in total, not just alcohol-related motor vehicle deaths.

http://www.vpc.org/s.../gunsvscars.pdf

And there were more than 30,000 gun deaths in 2009 in the whole country.

But I have no idea how many of the motor vehicle deaths were suicides.

Edited December 18, 2012 by BubberMiley