Mass shooting

[Guest Derek L]

People have/will always kill each other. It is part of the human condition.

Exactly, well obviously tragic, with an annual average of over 9000 gun homicides a year, or about 25 a day, it’s telling that the anti-gun crowd is already dancing on the graves of these children will calls for further “gun control”……………..I wonder how many Black and Hispanic children die a year due to gun violence?

Call me crazy, but perhaps the “antis” should focus on what makes certain groups join violent gangs and what is triggering an increase in mental health problems in today’s youth………..

Though I don’t doubt that it did happen on occasion, but the frequency of childhood violence (and I’d consider a mentally ill 20 year old, such as the suspected shooter ,a child) today when contrasted with my youth has seemed to have dramatically increased, though the murder rates within the United States and Canada have been trending downwards for the last several decades………..

Of course back in the 60s and 70s, guns & ammunition were a lot more affordable and obtainable when compared to today, but I don’t recall the frequency of diagnosed mental health issues, nor the treatment with pharmaceuticals to the same level as today……..Of course back then, people deemed mentally unstable could be forcibly locked up, for both our protection ands theirs…..

Perhaps this is a society thing and one should ask why the kids of today are shooting each other and not tin cans in a gravel pit…………..

[TheNewTeddy]

Here's one for the gun control people.

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t3

On Friday morning, a man walked through the entrance of an elementary school and, without warning, began ruthlessly cutting down children at the school. Before he was subdued, nearly two dozen were hit.

While it sounds like the horrific massacre in Connecticut, this attack took place about 8,000 miles away in central China. And while several of the victims were reported in critical condition, none of the 22 children were killed. The 36-year-old suspect in China -- which has strict gun control laws -- attacked the children with a knife,according to local reports.

"The huge difference between this case and the U.S. is not the suspect, nor the situation, but the simple fact he did not have an effective weapon,"

....

the attack in China Friday shows, no nation is immune from incidents of mass violence. In July 2011, a gunman killed 77 people in a bomb attack and gun rampage in Norway.

....

"Number one is the increased pressure for individuals. Today's world is very different from the world we saw 50 years ago ... individuals in their daily life face much more uncertainty, risk, financial pressure and competition."

The problem is not with guns or knives or death vs injury - the problem is with society.

Edited December 15, 2012 by TheNewTeddy

[Guest Derek L]

Here's one for the gun control people.

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t3

The problem is not with guns or knives or death vs injury - the problem is with society.

Exactly...........It’s the same thing with those that want to limit “rap music” and violent TV shows and video games………..We had Marty Robbins “gunfighter albums”, watched westerns and played army or cowboys & Indians in the front yard……….Aside from advancements in today’s technology and the delivery of such mediums, I don’t see a real difference between what kids listen to, watch or play between then and now………

So what has changed? There in lays the “problem” in need of fixing.

[Hudson Jones]

No it's not, they have more mass shootings per capita than any other civilized nation.

They want to deny it's their gun-laws, then it's somehting in the water I suppose because it doesn't seem to happen at this rate anywhere else.

Even though it makes it easier for these things happen, I don't think the gun laws are the reason. The American culture is crumpling from within. The culture is sick and the system is broken. There is too much disconnect between people.

[WIP]

Even though it makes it easier for these things happen, I don't think the gun laws are the reason. The American culture is crumpling from within. The culture is sick and the system is broken. There is too much disconnect between people.

If we can trust Michael Moore to have his facts straight, he said tonight that there have been 31 mass shootings in the U.S. since he made Bowling For Columbine. Our culture is sick and crumbling, but combine that with easy access to guns...and body armor also, for some reason is considered a God-given right.....there's bound to be mass shooting incidents as a result.

[Guest American Woman]

The American culture is crumpling from within. The culture is sick and the system is broken. There is too much disconnect between people.

You don't know much about the U.S., eh?

[Guest American Woman]

Perhaps this is a society thing and one should ask why the kids of today are shooting each other and not tin cans in a gravel pit…………..

Things change within a nation over time. One of the things that have changed is that people with certain disorders are no longer institutionalized. People with special needs/personality disorders/et al are "mainstreamed" into society. All the counselling in the world doesn't take away the disorder, or the characteristics. Also, some evidence suggests that there is an increase in such disorders, such as the one suffered by this gunman - Asperger Syndrome. Is it wrong to integrate such people into society? The consensus is that it's a good thing, but that doesn't mean there's not going to be some negative aspects along with the positive.

At any rate, the demographics change too, as do lifestyles, and as I've pointed out, crime does not seem to rise proportionately to population, as problems don't rise proportionately. Its' not that simple. Also, a per capita comparison, without a density comparison, a diversity comparison, without a demographics comparison, etc. is only looking at one simple statistic and hardly tells the story. I have to wonder why there seems to be so many more incidents like this too, but I don't think there's an easy/simple answer.

[-TSS-]

BTW they shouldn't even release the name of this killer or his picture, it gives them the exposure they're looking for. They want to go down in a blaze of glory and immortality in many cases it seems.

I agree. Deeds like these are a result of a mixture of extreme desperation and extreme narcism and attention-seeking.

[Wilber]

And of course, Canada with its strict gun laws, has never suffered gun shooting and death.

Wilber, I prefer gun control laws but like Trudeau Jnr, I opposed the Liberal long gun registry.

I didn't support the long gun registry either. Not because I have a problem with registering firearms but because I thought it gave poor value for the money being spent on it and targeted the wrong people. I do however support strict restrictions on some firearms such as hand guns and outright bans on some others like assault weapons. Nothing is perfect and nothing will satisfy everyone, but in general, I think Canada's present laws provide a reasonable balance between gun ownership and public safety.

You can't stop these things from happening completely not matter what you do or ban but you can do things to limit the opportunity and amount of damage when they do happen. There was a similar incident in China involving a knife, the difference being, the Chinese victims survived. I've no doubt those parents in Connecticut would much rather be visiting their child in hospital than planning their funeral.

Perhaps the saddest part of this whole thing is that when these kids have been buried and all the wailing and hand wringing is over, nothing will change and we will be counting the days till the next massacre.

[Bryan]

Here's one for the gun control people.

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t3

The problem is not with guns or knives or death vs injury - the problem is with society.

Talk about missing the big picture. The lack of access to a much more deadly weapon saved those Chinese children's lives. Contrasting those two incidents illustrates exactly why guns need to be severely restricted.

[TheNewTeddy]

You'd settle for reducing deaths as opposed to trying to stop them altogether? The deadliest elementary school incident in US history involved a bombing. Bombs are found everywhere.

Edited December 15, 2012 by TheNewTeddy

[GostHacked]

I think the sanctity of human means much less to society than it used to. Shootings like this never used to occur. What a tragedy.

Shootings like this have been going on for a long time. This is nothing new.

[Guest American Woman]

You'd settle for reducing deaths as opposed to trying to stop them altogether? The deadliest elementary school incident in US history involved a bombing. Bombs are found everywhere.

The deadliest school incident in the world involved bombs, too: the Beslan massacre.

Edited December 15, 2012 by American Woman

[Wilber]

You'd settle for reducing deaths as opposed to trying to stop them altogether? The deadliest elementary school incident in US history involved a bombing. Bombs are found everywhere.

You would do nothing because you can't stop them all together?

[Argus]

Then you suck just as bad speaking ABOUT Americans as you do speaking FOR Americans.

How about the US ambassador to Canada, who gets paid to speak FOR Americans. Would you accept his opinion as valid?

[Guest American Woman]

You would do nothing because you can't stop them all together?

I think his point is - why don't you propose banning all guns altogether? You made the comment that you think Canada's laws "provide a reasonable balance between gun ownership and public safety." So in other words, the gun death count in Canada is "reasonable." Just like Baby Bear's porridge, the number of gun deaths in Canada is 'just right.'

[GostHacked]

I am in line with Sharkman here. It's not the guns, or the knives, it's people and society.

Why are most of these killers found out to be troubled in some way? Mental issues, prescription medication effects, societal issues and pressures.

There does need a better approach to gun control, but i doubt restricting or banning gun would resolve the issue. The real issue is why people are doing this in the first place? Think if we get to that root problem we can avoid useless and costly measures of gun control (Canada's Long Gun registry as an example, and now no longer in place).

We as a society have become cold to those who need help. We don't get them the treatment they need to recover and become part of society again. If we ignore them, we will continue to have incidents like this.

The knife attacks in China are not proof that gun restrictions work. This man still went and stabbed 22 people. There have been previous incidents with knife attacks in China that have resulted in multiple deaths.

I am not sure how they go about it in the USA, but when my friend applied for a firearms license, I end up getting a call from the RCMP to validate the claim. If I did not feel comfortable with him owning guns, I would not have signed the paper. However, none of that will make a difference if he has some kind of trauma down the road and looses it. If he ever does have issues, I am there to help him through whatever it is.

So Sharkman eludes to something that many are simply overlooking on purpose for the sake of argument or are ignorant to the core.

[Bryan]

You'd settle for reducing deaths as opposed to trying to stop them altogether? The deadliest elementary school incident in US history involved a bombing. Bombs are found everywhere.

These are not binary choices. You don't settle for doing nothing just because you can't do everything.

Bombers don't buy pre-made bombs, they have to make them. This alone makes them less of an opportunity to mentally ill people to just grab and use.

[Guest American Woman]

How about the US ambassador to Canada, who gets paid to speak FOR Americans. Would you accept his opinion as valid?

I don't know what you're talking about, so I'll point out that your PM's - all elected officials - get paid to speak FOR Canadians, too. Does that mean you find everything they've said valid?

[Argus]

I agree. It's funny, but Americans are one of the few identifiable groups left that it is permissible to tar with one brush.

Not actually true. Just ask the Irish, or the French, or Chinese.

[Argus]

That's the truth, and sometimes it's difficult to understand.

It's not difficult. You're simply whining because people are making comments on your society's flaws. Get over yourself.

[Guest American Woman]

It's not difficult. You're simply whining because people are making comments on your society's flaws. Get over yourself.

Sounds to me as if you're the one whining. I'm simply stating my opinion, so I suggest you take your own advice .

Edited December 15, 2012 by American Woman

[Argus]

So no Canadians own semi automatic handguns? More to the point - only Americans own semi automatic handguns?

Nowhere in the world do they own these weapons to the extent Americans do.

[GostHacked]

Sounds to me as if you're the one whining. I'm simply stating my opinion, so I suggest you take your own advice.

Well, your opinion sucks ass. Just my opinion.

[Argus]

And it should be painfully obvious to you that even in Canada people own such guns. So again. How would stricter gun laws have prevented the mother from owning them, as there's nothing to indicate that she shouldn't have been allowed to?

It is a societal affect. The more guns present, the more people are going to use them criminally. It doesn't matter if everyone who owns one is a fine upstanding citizen. If all fine, upstanding citizens own guns then it's real easy for the rest to get hold of them.