Mass shooting

[jacee]

If I were to bluntly state what Vancouver's exact issue is, I'd probably be accused of being a racist.

You mean lots of available vulnerable murder victims?

[bush_cheney2004]

This is true. They understandably get the most attention, but they by far account for a small minority of deaths. In fact, they account for less than 1/10 of 1% of all murders in general,

Thanks for that follow-up confirming the actual perspective by the numbers. Chicago has neen struggling with a chronic gun homicide epidemic the past few years but it has not gotton nearly as much hype as "mass murders". For those calling for prompt and agressive actions to ban and/or confiscate guns and bullets, many of these same people were critical of U.S. legislation and policies for "homeland security" after 9/11.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... So spare me the wonderfulness of your constitutional gun rights

I am not asking you to respect or even understand the historical context for the U.S. Constitution or America's long love affair with firearms. I am just telling you that it is organic and fundamental to how the nation was built, with rights and individual liberty. The "wonderfulness" of universal health care in Canada is not a right, but many in Canada think it is. That's the difference.

[Black Dog]

Thanks for that follow-up confirming the actual perspective by the numbers. Chicago has neen struggling with a chronic gun homicide epidemic the past few years but it has not gotton nearly as much hype as "mass murders".

I like that you think that helps your case.

For those calling for prompt and agressive actions to ban and/or confiscate guns and bullets, many of these same people were critical of U.S. legislation and policies for "homeland security" after 9/11

No one here has said anything of the sort.

I am not asking you to respect or even understand the historical context for the U.S. Constitution or America's long love affair with firearms. I am just telling you that it is organic and fundamental to how the nation was built, with rights and individual liberty. The "wonderfulness" of universal health care in Canada is not a right, but many in Canada think it is. That's the difference.

Cite? Source?

Edited December 17, 2012 by Black Dog

[jacee]

I'm still wondering how Vancouver ended up having so many more incidents of murder per capita than my small city. Both cities have drug users. So what happened to people in Vancouver? Is it something in the water? Perhaps it's the drug culture that's rampant. If not that, then what?

Is your city a western port and major drug terminal, a destination for hard drug users?

[cybercoma]

No one here has said anything of the sort.

I'm saying it. Following the mass confiscation, anyone caught in possession of a firearm in public should immediately be shot by police.

[Guest American Woman]

Is your city a western port and major drug terminal, a destination for hard drug users?

So something has gone terribly wrong within Vancouver?

[bush_cheney2004]

So something has gone terribly wrong within Vancouver?

Winnipeg as well....my Canadian neighbours refuse to travel there anymore. It's just not safe !

[Boges]

Why would you travel to Winnipeg anyway? Jets fan? Wait there's no Hockey.

[cybercoma]

So something has gone terribly wrong within Vancouver?

Hey, broken record. Edmonton had the worst homicide rate in Canada last year with 50 murders. That puts their homicide rate at 4.17. Despite this being an unusually high year for Edmonton in terms of homicides, let's compare that to some major US cities, shall we?

Edmonton: 4.17

Los Angeles: 4.19

Houston: 5.0

Dallas: 6.43

DC: 8.15

Chicago: 10.83

Kansas City: 12.2

Philly: 12.38

Oakland: 15.89

St. Louis: 18.18

Baltimore: 18.22

Detroit: 27.34

New Orleans: 32.65

So what was your point again?

Edited December 17, 2012 by cybercoma

[Black Dog]

Why would you travel to Winnipeg anyway? Jets fan? Wait there's no Hockey.

To feel safer than in just about any American city of comparable size.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why would you travel to Winnipeg anyway? Jets fan? Wait there's no Hockey.

I think she is from the Winnipeg area. Now it is a crime capital !

[Boges]

To feel safer than in just about any American city of comparable size.

I'm not even talking about safety. WTF is there to do there?

But you wouldn't feel safe in cities like Seattle, Austin or San Diego?

Edited December 17, 2012 by Boges

[Black Dog]

I'm not even talking about safety. WTF is there to do there?

Dunno, I've never been. I'd like to, though. I understand it has a great music and cultural scene.

[Guest American Woman]

Hey, broken record. Edmonton had the worst homicide rate in Canada last year with 50 murders. That puts their homicide rate at 4.17. Despite this being an unusually high year for Edmonton in terms of homicides, let's compare that to some major US cities, shall we?

No, thank you. I'd rather stick with comparing Vancouver to my home town.

So what was your point again?

My point is that Vancouver has a much higher per capita murder rate than my small city, so evidently something has gone terribly wrong within Vancouver.

Edited December 17, 2012 by American Woman

[Black Dog]

My point is that Vancouver has a much higher per capita murder rate than my small city, so evidently something has gone terribly wrong within Vancouver.

So social issues like crime and poverty aren't problems in your book. Interesting point of view I suppose.

[Guest American Woman]

So social issues like crime and poverty aren't problems in your book. Interesting point of view I suppose.

Good Lord. Evidently my book isn't written in your language, because that comment is off the wall. How does "something has gone terribly wrong" translate to "social issues like crime and poverty aren't a problem?"

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm not even talking about safety. WTF is there to do there?

I agree...if the Winnipeg criminals didn't get you, death from boredom would.

[jacee]

Some hope ... for the future perhaps?

Barack Obama signals beginning of gun culture fight as pro-gun advocates go silent following Newtown massacre

Pro-gun advocates have gone silent in the wake of Friday’s deadly school shooting in Connecticut while U.S. President Barack Obama has given his strongest indication yet that he will move forward with a crackdown on the United States’ gun culture.

On the weekend political shows, only one pro-gun activist dared appear. Texas Republican Congressman Louie Gohmert argued that if the principal of Sandy Hook Elementary School had an assault rifle in her office, she could have stopped the shooting that killed 20 of her students, instead of dying trying to stop the gunman.

David Gregory, the host of “Meet the Press,” said NBC invited all 31 “pro-gun” senators to appear on Sunday’s show, and all 31 declined. All eight Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee were unavailable or unwilling to appear on CBS’ “Face the Nation,” host Bob Schieffer said.

The newly re-elected president offered few specifics about how he planned to proceed, saying only that he will engage with law enforcement, mental health professionals, parents and educators in the coming weeks.

“Because what choice do we have?” a somber Obama said at a Sunday evening vigil in the grieving community of Newtown, Conn. “We can’t accept events like this as routine. Are we really prepared to say that we’re powerless in the face of such carnage? That the politics are too hard?”

[Wilber]

So something has gone terribly wrong within Vancouver?

What has gone wrong in Vancouver? Why not compare apples with apples. Vancouver and Seattle are similar sized port cities located 180 miles apart. In 2010 Seattle had its lowest number of homicides since 1956. Vancouver also had a lower than normal year. Seattle"s homicide rate was 3.0 per 100,000. Vancouver"s was 1.7. Homicides are markedly up in Seattle this year and according to Seattle police, the biggest factor in this years homicides has been the availability of guns, not gang activity.

[Wilber]

I am not asking you to respect or even understand the historical context for the U.S. Constitution or America's long love affair with firearms. I am just telling you that it is organic and fundamental to how the nation was built, with rights and individual liberty. The "wonderfulness" of universal health care in Canada is not a right, but many in Canada think it is. That's the difference.

Fine, you've explained it. Explaining it all you want won't turn a pig into a princess.

[cybercoma]

What has gone wrong in Vancouver? Why not compare apples with apples. Vancouver and Seattle are similar sized port cities located 180 miles apart. In 2010 Seattle had its lowest number of homicides since 1956. Vancouver also had a lower than normal year. Seattle"s homicide rate was 3.0 per 100,000. Vancouver"s was 1.7. Homicides are markedly up in Seattle this year and according to Seattle police, the biggest factor in this years homicides has been the availability of guns, not gang activity.

She doesn't want to compare apples to apples. Instead of comparing OECD nations to OECD nations, she wants to localize it. And instead of comparing like cities to like cities, she wants to compare whatever backwoods sleepy retirement community in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan that she's from to a major Canadian city with noted gang violence and drug trafficking issues. It's obvious why she's doing it. And it's equally obvious to anyone with a modicum of critical thinking ability to see why her broken-record argument is completely irrelevant.

[gunrutz]

She doesn't want to compare apples to apples. Instead of comparing OECD nations to OECD nations, she wants to localize it. And instead of comparing like cities to like cities, she wants to compare whatever backwoods sleepy retirement community in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan that she's from to a major Canadian city with noted gang violence and drug trafficking issues. It's obvious why she's doing it. And it's equally obvious to anyone with a modicum of critical thinking ability to see why her broken-record argument is completely irrelevant.

O look pot, it's the kettle.

[The_Squid]

O look pot, it's the kettle.

How so?

[Argus]

No, mine was exactly inline with yours, in that if a plane crashes due to “human error or negligence”, after the fact, no one is calling for a banning of planes.

But clearly something went wrong. We want to find out what it was and stop it again. That is the same here. Clearly, something in society is very wrong when dozens are killed by a psycho. Therefore, we need to look at how to stop that from happening again. The two clear and obvious focuses would be on mental health treatment for crazy people, and making it more difficult for them to gain access to assault weapons.