Guest Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Should that therapy exist? If someone is bisexual, that's one thing, but if they're gay, they shouldn't really try not to be. It's what they are. Betsy, apparently, is an uninformed bigot. The therapy I was talking about was helping gay people come to terms with societies prejudices. If necessary. Different from Betsy's straightening therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 That's all a piece of crock. Nothing more than a scam I can't imagine gay to straight therapy working any more than I can imagine therapy being able to make me gay. People on the borderline I think can be coaxed one way or the other; not hard core people in either direction. If someone wants the therapy why shouldn't they have it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 No. For some reasons....dance troupes doesn't produce lesbians. What do you think would produce lesbians? Do you think you could be turned into a lesbian by picking the wrong hobby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 The therapy I was talking about was helping gay people come to terms with societies prejudices. If necessary. Sorry, I thought you were talking about therapy to help them become straight if they thought they should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 f someone wants the therapy why shouldn't they have it? If someone wants to end up being emotionally depress, sure, go for the therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Sorry, I thought you were talking about therapy to help them become straight if they thought they should. Yeah same here What do you think would produce lesbians? Females being a forestry lumber jack? Edited December 9, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've got an idea, how about religious zealots stop making gay people feel like they're horrible, awful, disgusting people that need to be "fixed" and start treating them with love and respect, as Christ taught you. Yeah, exactly. I couldn't imagine anything less Christ-like than all this bullcrap. Shame on you betsy, and anyone who thinks this vile nonsense. This kind of thinking is really damaging, and yes it has driven people to commit suicide or suffer serious mental illness like anxiety or depression. This is no different than me loving chocolate ice cream a lot more than vanilla ice cream, but me being taught chocolate ice cream is wrong or unnatural, so my thinking is re-engineered to make me think I dislike chocolate and like vanilla more. Sorry, that's ridiculous. I could repress all I want, but subconsciously I'll always love chocolate more than vanilla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 The therapy I was talking about was helping gay people come to terms with societies prejudices. If necessary. That type of therapy is available, too; I'm sure some gay people have sought therapy to help them deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 With that reasoning - might as well hunt down all pedophiles, lock em up and throw away the key. You're saying, no kinds of rehabilitation will help them. What's the difference between a gay who decided he wants to be heterosexual from a pedophile who decided he doesn't want to be a pedophile anymore? We saying: "sorry bud, I can't imagine pedophile to straight theraphy will work. You're born a pedophile, you'll forever be a pedophile." You can't "cure" a pedophile, short of artificial means like hormone therapy or castration. Even then that's no sure thing. Same as you can't "cure" a homosexual, a bisexual, or a heterosexual. Save weird chemical intervention, pedophiles will always be sexually attracted to kids, like you'll be attracted to whoever or whatever you like. The only thing a pedophile can control, same as a heterosexual pr homosexual or bisexual, is to act or not act on his/her natural desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Perhaps too many straight people are choosing to live a gay lifestyle by choice. Let's be honest here I've seen lots of people who seem straight but lead a gay lifestyle by choice, it is happening everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 With that reasoning - might as well hunt down all pedophiles, lock em up and throw away the key. You're saying, no kinds of rehabilitation will help them. Absolutely true. What's the difference between a gay who decided he wants to be heterosexual from a pedophile who decided he doesn't want to be a pedophile anymore? We saying: "sorry bud, I can't imagine pedophile to straight theraphy will work. You're born a pedophile, you'll forever be a pedophile." Absolutely true. Society is supportive of those who want to undergo a sex change....understanding the angst of someone who's "trapped" in a woman's or man's body. Obviously these gays feel they're trapped in this gayness. What's the difference? You can't imagine how a gay who wants to undergo this kind of theraphy must be feeling. The article cited percentages of that theraphy as having worked. So why can't society be supportive of those gays who want to be heterosexuals? Behaviours might change. Feelings don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 No. For some reasons....dance troupes doesn't produce lesbians. Did you ever wonder why? Or do you just want to continue to assault gay men? For whatever reasons, dancing is categorized as a feminine activity in our society, regardless of the skill, athleticism and training that dancers have to do to be at the top of their game. Which is why, when a friend of mine who is divorced, in his 40's and having trouble finding steady work in the last few years told me about his only steady income of late - as a set builder and grip for our local theater company, he says he is reluctant to tell most people where he is working now....precisely because most of the actors and senior staff at the theater who are men, are also gay. While none of the young women working in the theater are...maybe the gay women are in the Armed Forces or out driving trucks or something...but they don't seem to be in the theater! And as my friend notes, if he was at least 10 years younger, he would be having the time of his life, because there are so many single chicks and none of the guys around seem to be interested in them...in a sexual way that is. If we lived in a non-homophobic society, would a theater company be a little bit more balanced in the sexual orientation dept.? Likely yes, but it's hard to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Perhaps too many straight people are choosing to live a gay lifestyle by choice. Let's be honest here I've seen lots of people who seem straight but lead a gay lifestyle by choice, it is happening everyday. Sure it is! I've heard from so many televangelists over the years about how easy it is to be tempted into the gay lifestyle, that maybe they could be right....or maybe they could just be projecting, because they are so conflicted about their own gay thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 They didn't "end up going gay," they were gay. Surely you already knew that, right? Prison doesn't create homosexuals - engaging in sex with men because there are no women around and doing it out of preference for men are two different things. I would guess that the majority of men engaging in sex in prison are doing so against their will. It's been a scandal for ages that prisons and the prison system itself gives tacit approval for buggery of new inmates and rewards prisoners for raping male prisoners that they do not feel can be completely subdued through accepted prison disciplinary practices. If the system wanted to stop male rape in prisons, they could do it; in some twisted way, they like the idea that getting raped in prison could act as a disincentive to commit crime after being released. As for the men in prison who are engaging in sex willingly, it's important to point out that sexual orientation is not fixed into specific categories, and has to placed in a spectrum from 100% heterosexual through bisexual stages to 100% homosexual. Some psychologists claim that nobody is 100% in either category...and to complicate the picture even further, most psychologists studying sexual behaviour tell us that sexual orientation is more of a physically fixed behaviour in men, but not so for women. So, it's not unheard of for women, such as a friend at work, to say that she did not feel she was a lesbian while she was married, but somehow in her late 30's, she was losing interest in her husband, finding other women more attractive, panicking about this realization, but then meeting a woman she fell in love with and going through the messy process of telling her husband and going through divorce. When these types of situations happen with men, the guy is almost certainly someone who was already gay or was bisexual with a strong interest in men, that may or may not have been suppressed right back before he got married in the first place. I guess the takeaway is people are too complicated to fit into a few neat little categories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 For whatever reasons, dancing is categorized as a feminine activity in our society, regardless of the skill, athleticism and training that dancers have to do to be at the top of their game. Which is why, when a friend of mine who is divorced, in his 40's and having trouble finding steady work in the last few years told me about his only steady income of late - as a set builder and grip for our local theater company, he says he is reluctant to tell most people where he is working now....precisely because most of the actors and senior staff at the theater who are men, are also gay. While none of the young women working in the theater are...maybe the gay women are in the Armed Forces or out driving trucks or something...but they don't seem to be in the theater! And as my friend notes, if he was at least 10 years younger, he would be having the time of his life, because there are so many single chicks and none of the guys around seem to be interested in them...in a sexual way that is.If we lived in a non-homophobic society, would a theater company be a little bit more balanced in the sexual orientation dept.? Likely yes, but it's hard to say. There are plenty of straight guys who are interested in, and involved in, the theatre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've got an idea, how about religious zealots stop making gay people feel like they're horrible, awful, disgusting people that need to be "fixed" and start treating them with love and respect, as Christ taught you. That brings to mind a story I heard from Frank Schaeffer in an interview on the subject of his father - Francis Schaeffer, one of the pillars of the modern evangelical right movement. He said his father was strongly against the legalization of abortion, and that motivated him to be more political. But he was opposed to a lot, maybe even most of the attitudes and tactics taken on by Falwell, Robertson and others, who came along after him and focused their attacks on homosexuals and had complete disregard for the poor. If he lived to see the modern day marriage of Republicans and Evangelicals, he might have wanted to take it all back and wish he'd never started working with them back in the early 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 There are plenty of straight guys who are interested in, and involved in, the theatre. You could be right; I know I am going from second hand observations on this one, but someone I consider a credible source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleipnir Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Let's be honest here I've seen lots of people who seem straight but lead a gay lifestyle by choice, it is happening everyday. That's a stereotype, not all gays are flamboyant and feminine. You won't see me being either of it. Edited December 9, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 With that reasoning - might as well hunt down all pedophiles, lock em up and throw away the key. You're saying, no kinds of rehabilitation will help them. What's the difference between a gay who decided he wants to be heterosexual from a pedophile who decided he doesn't want to be a pedophile anymore? We saying: "sorry bud, I can't imagine pedophile to straight theraphy will work. You're born a pedophile, you'll forever be a pedophile." Society is supportive of those who want to undergo a sex change....understanding the angst of someone who's "trapped" in a woman's or man's body. Obviously these gays feel they're trapped in this gayness. What's the difference? You can't imagine how a gay who wants to undergo this kind of theraphy must be feeling. The article cited percentages of that theraphy as having worked. So why can't society be supportive of those gays who want to be heterosexuals? Pedophiles can't be cured of their sexual attraction. Rehabilitation rate is almost non-existent and our laws are a joke. In the best case scenario, the pedophile does not act on their urges because they intellectually understand that they are harming children. However, the urges never go away. Why would a gay person choose to not act on their urges when their partner is a consenting adult? Just to please the likes of you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 In the best case scenario, the pedophile does not act on their urges because they intellectually understand that they are harming children. However, the urges never go away.They can also be made to intellectually understand the word "jail." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) They can also be made to intellectually understand the word "jail." Yes, of course, I guess I should've said they are capable of understanding that they are doing something wrong. But your post brings up another point. Even jail is not a deterrent given the number of pedophiles who abuse family members knowing that they will know that child when he or she grows up. The impulse is so strong that people can't stop themselves even though they are aware that their life will most likely be ruined one day because of it. Why would you want to suppress such a strong urge within yourself when you are not harming anyone? Edited December 9, 2012 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) You do realize that there's also such a thing as bisexual, right? Of course there is. Sexuality is not a binary of straight-gay. Edited December 9, 2012 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 Behaviours might change. Feelings don't. This is the crux of the thread, something betsy doesn't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Perhaps too many straight people are choosing to live a gay lifestyle by choice. Let's be honest here I've seen lots of people who seem straight but lead a gay lifestyle by choice, it is happening everyday. "seem" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 You do realize that there's also such a thing as bisexual, right? And engaging in homosexual sex without that being the innate preference? And that some homosexuals are married and have kids? And that "shrieking girly-girl behavior" isn't proof of being gay? And that liking sports - and being good at them - doesn't mean girls are lesbians? In spite of what you may think, people don't go from being straight to being gay to being straight - like a ping pong ball. As for the gayness of my friends - well they did have boyfriends when they were gays. Well AW, who has more knowledge about this thing? Us, or the psychiatrist who got homosexuality off the mental illness list? Anyway, whether a person os gay or not is not the real issue. If a gay person wants to have this theraphy to help him overcome his gayness, why shouldn't society respect his wish? After all society respect the wishes of those who'd want to become the opposite sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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