Gay "in denial"....and Gay-to-straight theraphy

[betsy]

This was brought up by WIP in the topic Darwin....which I think will be an interesting discussion. However it would take the thread Darwn out of topic, so I'm continuing it here.

Thanks for posting a comedy classic! Are Ray and Kirk really gay, or just living in denial...like Tom Cruise, John Travolta etc.?

I recall seeing part of one of those retrospective 'where are they now' type shows about the cast of Growing Pains. The takeaway seems to be that nobody liked Kirk, some refused to do a reunion movie if he was part of it, and he wouldn't hardly talk to others back when they were taping the shows after he turned gay....I mean born again!

If someone is strongly evangelical, they have a higher standard to clear than the average believer, who just wants the freedom of conscience, and the freedom to practice their faith. But, when they get up on the soapbox and start telling everyone else in the world that they need to take the same medicine that they have swallowed, they better show results to back up their claims!

Betsy:

Can you back up your inuendo that Cameron had turned gay?

You claim Tom Cruise and John Travolta are gay? Got anything to back that up? Or do you rely on sleazy tabloid headlines for facts?

Even if Cruise and Travolta are real gay, and as you say, "living in denial" for trying to be heterosexuals....that's their business, isn't it?Gays want to "out" famous people or celebrities - like it's their validation, trophy or something. If a gay person doesn't want to be outed as gay.....and if he clings to heterosexuality, that's his choice.

Are you one, btw? I mean, are you gay....and is that why you're so bitter about the Catholic Church, and Christianity in general? Is that why you're so very much into the hypocrisy of Christians (like as if they've got a monopoly on hypocrisy)....that you find them so judgemental?

Are you by any chance gay? Is that it?

This brings up the Gay-to-Straight conversion. Yes, there are theraphy sessions that's said to help gays who want to become heterosexuals.

Theraphy "can make gays heterosexuals"

Of 200 homosexuals and lesbians given the treatment, 78 per cent of males and 95 per cent of females reported a change in their sexuality.

The findings will reignite the debate over what determines sexuality, as they contradict the widespread view that it is 'hardwired' at birth.

Gay rights groups were outraged by the study, claiming it was flawed and treated homosexuality as an illness.

However, it is given more credence by the pedigree of the man who led it. Psychiatrist Robert Spitzer is the man who helped have homosexuality removed from the American Psychiatric Association's list of mental illnesses in 1973.

He insisted his study was valid and said some gays 'bothered' by their homosexuality wanted to be heterosexual and had a right to such treatment.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2EVMnPsbw

Gays who want to go straight should be supported - since obviously, that's what they want. Furthermore, not all gays were born gay - IF that were even to be considered a conclusive fact that one is born gay!

When I was a member of a dance troupe, you bet....men who joined up end up going gay (our choreographer was gay, and so his assistant). It was "fashionable" to be around gays....and these were the openly really girly-girl gays I'm talking about - the loud ones. Two of my good friends were so gay, they're more feminine than me. That was in university.

Last time I heard, they're both macho - including their voice - both married, and with kids! Go figure!

So if Cruise and Travolta wants to be "in denial"....that's their choice!

Edited December 8, 2012 by betsy

[Sleipnir]

Theraphy "can make gays heterosexuals"

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2EVMnPsbw

That's all a piece of crock. Nothing more than a scam

[Guest]

I can't imagine gay to straight therapy working any more than I can imagine therapy being able to make me gay.

[Sleipnir]

I can't imagine gay to straight therapy working any more than I can imagine therapy being able to make me gay.

It doesn't work, all it does is give them a deep depression and driving them to a point of committing suicide.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Guest]

When I was a member of a dance troupe, you bet....men who joined up end up going gay (our choreographer was gay, and so his assistant).

I really don't think that can happen. Joining a dance troupe is not going to turn a man gay if he was straight before he joined.

If that was the case they could just ungay by going hunting or watching football or something.

Then they could just gay up again by going to watch a musical, and on and on.

We'd know all about it if that was how it worked.

[Canuckistani]

I can't imagine gay to straight therapy working any more than I can imagine therapy being able to make me gay.

It's not hard. (no pun intended). It's called prison.

[Guest]

It's not hard. (no pun intended). It's called prison.

Preferable to joining a dance troupe..

[Sleipnir]

When I was a member of a dance troupe, you bet....men who joined up end up going gay (our choreographer was gay, and so his assistant).

Are you gay?

Edited December 9, 2012 by Sleipnir

[cybercoma]

I've got an idea, how about religious zealots stop making gay people feel like they're horrible, awful, disgusting people that need to be "fixed" and start treating them with love and respect, as Christ taught you.

[Sleipnir]

I've got an idea, how about religious zealots stop making gay people feel like they're horrible, awful, disgusting people that need to be "fixed" and start treating them with love and respect, as Christ taught you.

Yeah since Christ was probably gay himself

[betsy]

I can't imagine gay to straight therapy working any more than I can imagine therapy being able to make me gay.

With that reasoning - might as well hunt down all pedophiles, lock em up and throw away the key. You're saying, no kinds of rehabilitation will help them.

What's the difference between a gay who decided he wants to be heterosexual from a pedophile who decided he doesn't want to be a pedophile anymore? We saying: "sorry bud, I can't imagine pedophile to straight theraphy will work. You're born a pedophile, you'll forever be a pedophile."

Society is supportive of those who want to undergo a sex change....understanding the angst of someone who's "trapped" in a woman's or man's body. Obviously these gays feel they're trapped in this gayness. What's the difference?

You can't imagine how a gay who wants to undergo this kind of theraphy must be feeling.

The article cited percentages of that theraphy as having worked. So why can't society be supportive of those gays who want to be heterosexuals?

Edited December 9, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

It doesn't work, all it does is give them a deep depression and driving them to a point of committing suicide.

Have you been there? Are you gay who's not happy being gay? Have you tried that theraphy?

[betsy]

I really don't think that can happen. Joining a dance troupe is not going to turn a man gay if he was straight before he joined.

If that was the case they could just ungay by going hunting or watching football or something.

Then they could just gay up again by going to watch a musical, and on and on.

We'd know all about it if that was how it worked.

And in a lot of cases - especially among the youth that are confused, or troubled, or vulnerable to begin with - they turned gay because of influence of environment (like that dance troupe).

These gays had been confused at sometime in their lives perhaps and had erringly believed that they were gay - and now, they're battling with it!

If you do a survey and ask a gay about the first time he got introduced to gay sex - I wonder how many percentage will reveal that the person who initiated them to gay sex was someone a whole lot older than them....an authoritative figure (like a teacher, priest, nextdoor neighbor etc..,)? That would be interesting to know.

[betsy]

I really don't think that can happen. Joining a dance troupe is not going to turn a man gay if he was straight before he joined.

If that was the case they could just ungay by going hunting or watching football or something.

Then they could just gay up again by going to watch a musical, and on and on.

We'd know all about it if that was how it worked.

And in a lot of cases - especially among the youth that are confused, or troubled, or vulnerable to begin with - they turned gay because of influence of environment (like that dance troupe).

These gays had been confused at sometime in their lives perhaps and had erringly believed that they were gay - and now, they're battling with it!

If you do a survey and ask a gay about the first time he got introduced to gay sex - I wonder how many percentage will reveal that the person who initiated them to gay sex was someone a whole lot older than them....an authoritative figure (like a teacher, coach, priest, nextdoor neighbor etc..,)? That would be interesting to know.

Edited December 9, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

Are you gay?

No. For some reasons....dance troupes doesn't produce lesbians.

[Guest American Woman]

When I was a member of a dance troupe, you bet....men who joined up end up going gay ....

They didn't "end up going gay," they were gay. Surely you already knew that, right?

It's not hard. (no pun intended). It's called prison.

Prison doesn't create homosexuals - engaging in sex with men because there are no women around and doing it out of preference for men are two different things.

[betsy]

They didn't "end up going gay," they were gay. Surely you already knew that, right?

Two of them became straight again! Got married, and had kids! Their "gayness" was gone. And these two were soooo gay...you know, the shrieking girly-girl types, very loud and open! I know. They're my close friends in university!

Edited December 9, 2012 by betsy

[Guest American Woman]

Two of them became straight again! Got married, and had kids! Their "gayness" was gone. And these two were soooo gay...you know, the shrieking girly-girl types, very loud and open! I know. They're my close friends in university!

You do realize that there's also such a thing as bisexual, right? And engaging in homosexual sex without that being the innate preference? And that some homosexuals are married and have kids? And that "shrieking girly-girl behavior" isn't proof of being gay? And that liking sports - and being good at them - doesn't mean girls are lesbians?

In spite of what you may think, people don't go from being straight to being gay to being straight - like a ping pong ball.

[Sleipnir]

With that reasoning - might as well hunt down all pedophiles, lock em up and throw away the key. You're saying, no kinds of rehabilitation will help them.

Why are you comparing homosexual to pedophile?

Have you been there? Are you gay who's not happy being gay? Have you tried that theraphy?

The entire conversion therapy is a scam, even the inventor admit it to being nothing more than a fabricated idea based on nothing. No credible organizations support that therapy – but rather denounced or condemn it.

Two of them became straight again! Got married, and had kids! Their "gayness" was gone.

"Gayness" was never gone, it probably never existed in that person to begin with. There is a concept called 'bisexual' and 'curious'.

[kimmy]

Pennsylvania state representative Mike Fleck just came out of the closet last week. This was a risky thing for him to do as a Republican representing the most conservative district in the state.

Here are some comments he made about his experiences in trying to come to grips with same-sex attraction, reconcile his faith with his sexuality, and attempting to "cure" it through therapy.

He continued that during his 20s, he firmly believed what he’s been taught, that homosexuality was a choice and so never felt in great conflict because he’d learned to suppress his feelings.

“I wanted to live a ‘normal’ life and raise a family,” Fleck said. “I also believed that by marrying, I was fulfilling God’s will and I thought my same-sex attraction would simply go away.

(...)

While his professional dreams were becoming reality, Fleck said he was also weathering personal battles, namely his same-sex attraction which, contrary to all he believed and was taught, remained.

“So I just prayed harder and put it in God’s hands,” he said, adding that as one of the county’s most visible couples, the unresolved feelings and pressure of public scrutiny took its toll and Fleck opted for therapy.

“I sought out treatment from a Christian counselor, but when that didn’t work out, I engaged a secular therapist who told me point blank that I was gay and that I was too caught up in being the perfect Christian rather than actually being authentic and honest,” Fleck said.

He said the hardest part of the process has been reconciling his faith with his sexuality.

“Through years of counseling, I’ve met a lot of gay Christians who have tried hard to change their God-given sexual orientation, but at the end of the day, I know of none who’ve been successful,” he said. “They’ve only succeeded at repressing their identity, only to have it reappear time and time again and always wreaking havoc not only on themselves, but especially on their family.”

Fleck said once he was able to be honest with himself, he could finally be honest with others, because no one in his life had any clue about his personal struggle, not even his wife.

“My wife and I became closer than ever before but it was bittersweet as we both concluded that the marriage was over,” he said. Fleck moved out in the summer of 2011 and his wife bought a house that fall.

-k

[Guest]

With that reasoning - might as well hunt down all pedophiles, lock em up and throw away the key. You're saying, no kinds of rehabilitation will help them.

What's the difference between a gay who decided he wants to be heterosexual from a pedophile who decided he doesn't want to be a pedophile anymore? We saying: "sorry bud, I can't imagine pedophile to straight theraphy will work. You're born a pedophile, you'll forever be a pedophile."

Society is supportive of those who want to undergo a sex change....understanding the angst of someone who's "trapped" in a woman's or man's body. Obviously these gays feel they're trapped in this gayness. What's the difference?

You can't imagine how a gay who wants to undergo this kind of theraphy must be feeling.

The article cited percentages of that theraphy as having worked. So why can't society be supportive of those gays who want to be heterosexuals?

To compare gays and paedophiles is ridiculous, if you'll excuse me saying so. Both already have a sexual orientation. One is sexually attracted to children. Sexual orientation is not the same as sexual attraction.

That said, society should be supportive of gays who want to be heterosexuals. Therapy should be available to help them come to terms with their sexuality if they feel that they can't do so given society's prejudices.

[GostHacked]

Why not pray the gay away? Praying works right?

I had a school teacher that left his wife and kids because he could no longer deny his gayness. It's not fair to his wife and kids and not fair to himself as well living in a false reality trying to ignore who and what he really was. He was a good teacher before coming out, and he was just as good a teacher after.

Gays have been around for a very long time.

[Sleipnir]

Therapy should be available to help them come to terms with their sexuality if they feel that they can't do so given society's prejudices.

Except no such therapies exist.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Guest]

Except no such therapies exist.

Note the "should".

[Smallc]

Should that therapy exist? If someone is bisexual, that's one thing, but if they're gay, they shouldn't really try not to be. It's what they are. Betsy, apparently, is an uninformed bigot.