F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[Guest Derek L]

hey, LockMart is number 1 here too! And let's not forget those GMI Ratings that give LockMart a very 'negative' "High Governance Risk" assessment... that really shows how dependent LockMart is on the U.S. Government for sales. Which really puts moves by the U.S. Government to downsize the military/military funding into perspective... and how it could affect a company so reliant upon the U.S. Government. Which really emphasizes where much of LockMart's ability to offer shareholder dividends has come from... like the 2 wars in Iraq/Afghanistan. Do you see anything like an American appetite for more Iraq and Afghanistan type wars in the future? You know, something to keep your dividends rolling in?

But from your link, said list is also reflective of “environmental concerns” and “labour disputes”, both instances that play little into dividends…….

And I don't lose sleep over the loss of another future "war"..........

[waldo]

Sure, but as it’s been stated, the initial “watered down” F-35A will be a viable option to replace the oldest of the USAF fleet and then later receive the software upgrade as opposed to purchasing a interim legacy aircraft.

oh really! That's sure not what I've read... perhaps you could speak to how that 'compromised' IOC downscale' delivers a, as you say, viable option.

[Guest Derek L]

oh really! That's sure not what I've read... perhaps you could speak to how that 'compromised' IOC downscale' delivers a, as you say, viable option.

Simply put, watered down, the aircraft will still be an upgrade when contrasted with the earlier blocks of F-16s used by the USAF and various ANG units.

[waldo]

But from your link, said list is also reflective of “environmental concerns” and “labour disputes”, both instances that play little into dividends…….

And I don't lose sleep over the loss of another future "war"..........

first link didn't have anything to do with commenting on dividends... just a nice throw-away I came across a while back that seemed to fit well given your cheerleading flaunting LockMart dividends... #1 in contractor misconduct!

yes..... war is good... for your dividends!

[waldo]

Simply put, watered down, the aircraft will still be an upgrade when contrasted with the earlier blocks of F-16s used by the USAF and various ANG units.

lame answer... no problem. I thought you might actually go there - you know, the actual downsized metrics and the supposed kind of plane capability compared to the final production (target, uhhh.... promised) delivered.

[waldo]

We’ve already went through those costs Waldo and once the actual cost of purchasing and operating the Super Hornets was defined, the difference is negligible…….of course we never determined what Super Hornet support costs would do once the USN retires theirs and the supply chain wanes….Of course I don’t expect the operating costs to drop…

I don't recall this... I tried to find it. If you know (can easily find the link) please provide - thankee. Or, if you know the comparison without recall assist, please provide.

[waldo]

Now I think I addressed your questions relating to a hypothetical RCAF Super Hornet purchase above, but I’m surprised with your lack of knowledge relating to the Canadian use of UAVs. Canada already operates a small force of UAVs in the battlefield surveillance role (to great success I might add in Afghanistan) as replacement of our long since retired Kiowa helicopters, and I would assume that some point going forward, these will eventually be replaced by something similar to Obama’s beloved Reapers……We also have a ongoing program looking at the (partial) eventual replacement of our Aurora maritime patrol aircraft, in all likelihood the eventual replacement would be a mixture of manned and unmanned aircraft.

combat... not just surveilance

[Guest Derek L]

lame answer... no problem. I thought you might actually go there - you know, the actual downsized metrics and the supposed kind of plane capability compared to the final production (target, uhhh.... promised) delivered.

How so? The physical attributes of the “water downed” F-35 won’t be compromised, and will be a direct improvement over the bulk of the current F-16 fleet, what will be diminished is the initial software, but this will be continually upgrade for the entire fleet over the life of the aircraft anyways……

[waldo]

As to use, one day in the future, I’ve no doubt that UCAVs will dominate the battlespace…….Based on the recent ambivalence by the USAF towards the prospects of replacing their strategic bombers with a unmanned option, coupled with the early proposals of the sixth generation fighter being possibly dual use, in that they could be flown in a predetermined mission unmanned, well also being able to fly a conventional manned mission, I would assume that fully unmanned high performance UCAV won’t approach total viability until the middle of the century……or perhaps a viable replacement for the F-35.….

not my understanding. But it fits with your reluctance to accept unmanned flight... unmanned and conventional - both! Not my understanding - not what I read.

[Guest Derek L]

I don't recall this... I tried to find it. If you know (can easily find the link) please provide - thankee. Or, if you know the comparison without recall assist, please provide.

IIRC it's in this thread from about six months ago........I've no time at the moment to locate it, but I might have time tonight.......

[waldo]

How so? The physical attributes of the “water downed” F-35 won’t be compromised, and will be a direct improvement over the bulk of the current F-16 fleet, what will be diminished is the initial software, but this will be continually upgrade for the entire fleet over the life of the aircraft anyways……

just software? Really... you're sure?

[Guest Derek L]

combat... not just surveilance

? Both are one and the same.

[Guest Derek L]

not my understanding. But it fits with your reluctance to accept unmanned flight... unmanned and conventional - both! Not my understanding - not what I read.

I can’t do it for you now, but Googly Boeing’s proposed Sixth Gen fighter and replacement bomber…….lot’s of open source speculative info on the internets…….

[Guest Derek L]

IIRC it's in this thread from about six months ago........I've no time at the moment to locate it, but I might have time tonight.......

And here you go, several of our exchanges over the RAAF purchase of Super Hornets:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22051-f-35-purchase-cancelled/page-50

I'm still waiting for the per plane cost from the prospective RAAF deal of 3.7 billion for 24 aircraft.........The RAAF has since reconfirmed it's F-35 purchase plans I thought should be added...

3.7 billion / 24 aircraft = ? And it must be remembered that said figure isn't reflective of the total cost of ownership like our 40+ billion figure for our F-35s, or what supporting the fleet once Boeing closes down production and the USN retires theirs......and of course, as mentioned a week or so ago, a need to purchase additional attrition aircraft before the production line closes in a couple of years....

[Guest Derek L]

Aside from the positive industry related news associated with further progress on the program, this is a major geopolitical first for the Japanese “post-war”:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/07/18/national/japan-to-allow-domestic-firms-to-join-f-35-fighter-production/#.UeiNLtK1EhM

The move came after Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said in March that while the Abe administration will maintain Japan’s long-standing ban on exporting arms, it has decided to allow domestic companies to make parts for the F-35 on the belief that the United States, which is chiefly responsible for development of the jet, will strictly control shipments.

Until now, the Japanese have been unable to export arms, what this will mean for the industry (not just the F-35) is that now Japanese companies on a case by case basis will be able to work with other international entities............For example, this could open the door for the eventual replacement of our Submarines and allow industry lightweights like Canada, the Dutch and Australians to partner with the Japanese on the design and production of a modern, non-nuclear submarine........slightly off-topic, but the inclusion of the Japan into the the F-35 program will be boon to all the members.

Among the firms, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. is expected to conduct final assembly, IHI Corp. to make engine parts and Mitsubishi Electric Corp. to make radar components.

So we can add Mitsubishi to other industry heavyweights like Lockheed, BAE, Fokker, Northrop Grumman and Pratt & Whitney.....

[Guest Derek L]

And those Italians with a first:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130720/DEFREG01/307200006/Amid-Local-Opposition-Italy-Begins-F-35-Assembly

ROME — As spending on the F-35 Joint Striker Fighter program continues to arouse strong opposition in Italy, Alenia Aermacchi has started final assembly work of the country’s first JSFs at a custom built facility near Milan.

The work marks the first time that final assembly of an F-35 has taken place outside the US. Last week, fuselage components were loaded into an electronic mate and alignment system, one of four 50-foot-by-80-foot systems at the JSF Final Assembly and Check Out (FACO) line at Cameri Air Base, which is run jointly by Alenia and Lockheed Martin.

Rather impressive for a country that was “leaving” the F-35 program…..

[Guest Derek L]

Another noteworthy update on the F-35:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/30/us-lockheed-fighter-idUSBRE96S14220130730

The agreement, which was first reported by Reuters on Monday, covers 36 jets in a sixth batch, with each warplane to cost about 4 percent less than the previous lot, and 35 planes in a seventh batch, also at a 4 percent discount, Lockheed and the Pentagon's F-35 program office said in a statement.

What? A F-35 price drop on the next two batches of LRIP F-35s...

The lower cost of the planes, coupled with lower prices on a number of other smaller contracts, "will allow the Pentagon to buy all the aircraft originally planned, including those that were in jeopardy of being cut" as a result of mandatory budget cuts imposed on the Pentagon in March, the statement said.

No reduction in numbers of the F-35?

"Improving affordability is critical to the success of this program, and by working together we were able to negotiate a lower cost F-35," said Lieutenant General Chris Bogdan, who heads the Pentagon's F-35 program office.

"There is still work to be done, but these agreements are proof the cost arrow is moving in the right direction," he said.

But I thought the "experts" said the price was sure to increase....this can't be.......It's almost as if the price drops as more aircraft are produced and ordered......

Lorraine Martin, who heads the F-35 program for Lockheed, said increasing production was imperative to help the military services' meet their targets for initial operational use of the planes, beginning with the Marines Corps in 2015.

But I thought the "experts" also said the F-35B was going to be binned.......

None the less, good news all around for Lockheed and the partners....including Canada:

[Guest Derek L]

An interesting video shedding further light on the program from the end users perspective:

Though it touches briefly, the extent of both the F-35 fleet logistic & maintenance capabilities, coupled with the situational awareness and sensor fusion of the aircraft are both often underscored in discussions on the aircraft when compared to legacy types……other current aircraft can‘t compete in these categories.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Derek L

[DogOnPorch]

A couple of raw vids from Air Boyd of VMFA-121 F-35Bs @ Miramar.

[Topaz]

It could be the Tories cancelled the F-35 because that exactly what the US has been thinking about because the costs of too high. http://rt.com/usa/pentagon-f35-stealth-bomber-963/

[Guest Derek L]

It could be the Tories cancelled the F-35 because that exactly what the US has been thinking about because the costs of too high. http://rt.com/usa/pentagon-f35-stealth-bomber-963/

Read your (Russian) article again:

An unnamed defense official familiar with the briefing told Reuters that the leaked budget document indicated possibilities for a worst-case scenario. He admitted that the Pentagon considered scrapping the program, but said it was unlikely, since “cancelling the program would be detrimental to our national defense.”

And as played out in the non Pravda world, the recent ordering of LRIP 6 & 7 aircraft doesn’t signal the abandonment of the program

[Guest Derek L]

And some more F-35 news:

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_08_05_2013_p30-602514.xml

The Pentagon and Lockheed Martin have agreed to a handshake deal for the latest two lots of F-35 airframes, and based on cost projections the program for the first time is targeting a unit price under $100 million, excluding engines and retrofits.

But this goal in the seventh production run (next year) covers only the airframe. A breakdown of additional prices such as the F135 engine and projected retrofits reveals a far higher cost. Meanwhile, the Pentagon is preparing to consider whether the single-engine, stealthy aircraft is ready for full-rate production, as officials target a total unit cost at peak production of $80-90 million.

The deal covers 36 aircraft in low-rate, initial production (LRIP) 6 and another 35 in LRIP 7. Defense spending cuts handed down by sequestration in the fiscal 2013 budget did not ultimately affect the number of aircraft in LRIP 6, as once thought

Both two important pieces of news for all the partners, including Canada….

The F-35A airframe, designed for conventional U.S. Air Force takeoff and landing (and the version with greatest appeal to international partners) is projected to cost $100.8 million in LRIP 6 and $96.8 million in LRIP 7. This is the first time since the program began production that the projected unit cost will fall below $100 million.

So the F-35A, what Canada will be buying, will finally, under low rate production (Full rate production will see further significant savings) be under 100 million dollars a piece……both cheaper than current full rate production European aircraft and Boeing’s latest variant of the F-15.…

Surprisingly, the Canadian mainstream media or the official oppositions don’t seem prepared to talk about this achievement…….What are they going to do when the price tag aligns with the Harper Government’s estimate?

[GostHacked]

The 100 mill each is on top of the billions already spent correct?

[Smallc]

No money has been spent.

[Guest Derek L]

The 100 mill each is on top of the billions already spent correct?

Yes, the 100 million is the current per plane price after the billions spent (namely by the Americans and British) on development......