F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[waldo]

it’s formed an operational squadron?

for testing you mean. Perhaps you can provide perspective... when one reads accounts of the real critical ops testing being pushed farther and farther out (why 2019 is even being mentioned), how does a F-35 cheerleader press on in the face of having no/little critical positive testing results to help prop-up the charade? And about those budget/sequestration cuts slamming into LRIP... and about that significant and self-perpetuating concurrency that you still refuse to even acknowledge. How do you keep it together?

[waldo]

This 'aborted' F-35B starts ferry from Fort Worth to Pax River....none of these actually exist:

does peppering every one of your posts with picture/media porn, help disguise the fact you actually haven't anything to say/contribute? Carry on!

[Guest Derek L]

for testing you mean. Perhaps you can provide perspective... when one reads accounts of the real critical ops testing being pushed farther and farther out (why 2019 is even being mentioned), how does a F-35 cheerleader press on in the face of having no/little critical positive testing results to help prop-up the charade? And about those budget/sequestration cuts slamming into LRIP... and about that significant and self-perpetuating concurrency that you still refuse to even acknowledge. How do you keep it together?

No, the USMC squadron is one of conversion........

[Guest Derek L]

This 'aborted' F-35B starts ferry from Fort Worth to Pax River....none of these actually exist:

That must be a fake........the pilot donned the unworkable helmet

[bush_cheney2004]

More F-35 B & C porn for 2012 testing. Again, these aircraft are not under consideration for procurement by Canada, but yet remain part of the cost and performance discussion by some critics here at MLW. Of course, Canada could waffle as it did before and buy a U.S Navy bird because of stout landing gear !

[ReeferMadness]

No personal interest in the F-35...hell..it's costing "me" a fortune.

What, did you go out and max the Amex by putting a down payment on one of these butterballs? Best keep it in the garage, it would look a bit gauche in the driveway.

For the umpteenth time, the U.S. blows more money on "turkey" development than Canada can even imagine.

No doubt. I'm sure there's more than a passing relationship between that fact and your national debt, which is definitely more than I can imagine.

[bush_cheney2004]

does peppering every one of your posts with picture/media porn, help disguise the fact you actually haven't anything to say/contribute? Carry on!

Yes....the porn marginalizes meaningless squawking from members with nothing to offer but more data from the very country that is producing these aircraft in all three variants. Canadian subcontractors hope this continues...and it will.

[ReeferMadness]

More F-35 B & C porn for 2012 testing. Again, these aircraft are not under consideration for procurement by Canada, but yet remain part of the cost and performance discussion by some critics here at MLW. Of course, Canada could waffle as it did before and buy a U.S Navy bird because of stout landing gear !

Or we could just sit this one out and wait for a plane based on a sound understanding of the real world. Another choice quote from my link above:

As a ‘close air support’… too fast to see the tactical targets it is shooting at; too delicate and flammable to withstand ground fire; and it lacks the payload and especially the endurance to loiter usefully over US forces for sustained periods… What the USAF will not tell you is that ‘stealthy’ aircraft are quite detectable by radar; it is simply a question of the type of radar and its angle relative to the aircraft… As for the highly complex electronics to attack targets in the air, the F-35, like the F-22 before it, has mortgaged its success on a hypothetical vision of ultra-long range, radar-based air-to-air combat that has fallen on its face many times in real air war.

too delicate and flammable to withstand ground fire.... ouch. Not something I'd want to fly.

I can't help but notice that your responses attack Canada but don't defend the F35. Or do you think that in a war zone, pretty pictures will be all the defence needed?

Edited March 10, 2013 by ReeferMadness

[bush_cheney2004]

What, did you go out and max the Amex by putting a down payment on one of these butterballs? Best keep it in the garage, it would look a bit gauche in the driveway.

No....America's ability to project power requires such aircraft in the driveway. Tier 3 Canada wants a piece of the action with subcontracts.

No doubt. I'm sure there's more than a passing relationship between that fact and your national debt, which is definitely more than I can imagine.

Agreed.....simply out of your league. Which is why it is silly to make such CanAm comparisons. Canada is no longer even a 'middle power'.

[bush_cheney2004]

Or we could just sit this one out and wait for a plane based on a sound understanding of the real world. Another choice quote from my link above:

too delicate and flammable to withstand ground fire.... ouch. Not something I'd want to fly.

I'm sure you never will. There is always time for Canada to wait....there is no conflict scenario that would pivot on present or projected capabilities of Canadian strike aircraft.

I can't help but notice that your responses attack Canada but don't defend the F35. Or do you think that in a war zone, pretty pictures will be all the defence needed?

If Canada's record for defense procurements is an attack, then so be it. The Americans cannot save you from yourselves.

[waldo]

I can't help but notice that your responses attack Canada but don't defend the F35. Or do you think that in a war zone, pretty pictures will be all the defence needed?

yes, as was my similar stated observation on his ultra-sensitivities. The guy channels critical challenge of the F-35 as a personal affront to the U.S. country itself. He won't actually even attempt to defend the JSFail program failure... after all, that kind of thing just gets in the way of his posting pic/video-after-pic/video. He knows where his skills lie!

[bush_cheney2004]

....The guy channels critical challenge of the F-35 as a personal affront to the U.S. country itself.

The "country itself" already generates "critical challenge of the F-35" above and beyond anything that can come from a bargain hunting peanut gallery. It also builds aircraft of all types.....Canada doesn't.

[The_Squid]

Canada doesn't build aircraft? When did we stop???

[DogOnPorch]

Canada doesn't build aircraft? When did we stop???

Building a passenger aircraft and building a bleeding edge military aircraft are two really different trades. It's similar to a dentist doing brain surgery.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada doesn't build aircraft? When did we stop???

When you stopped being Canadians ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Royal Navy gets it F-35C groove on at Pax River...home in time for tea.

[ReeferMadness]

Royal Navy gets it F-35C groove on at Pax River...home in time for tea.

Since it's "too delicate and flammable to withstand ground fire", I suppose getting home in time for tea is a huge success.

I can't help but notice you've still not addressed any of the serious issues with the plane.

[ReeferMadness]

yes, as was my similar stated observation on his ultra-sensitivities. The guy channels critical challenge of the F-35 as a personal affront to the U.S. country itself. He won't actually even attempt to defend the JSFail program failure... after all, that kind of thing just gets in the way of his posting pic/video-after-pic/video. He knows where his skills lie!

Truly. I still think he must have some financial interest in this flying butterball. The link I posted was pretty damning about the huge compromises made for the sake of limited stealth. Instead of responding to them, he posts pictures.

[bush_cheney2004]

.....I can't help but notice you've still not addressed any of the serious issues with the plane.

Not as serious as having to fly strike missions with 40 year old obsolete aircraft like Canada may have to. The F-35 is in production...they are rolling out of Fort Worth using parts and sub-assemblies from around the world, including Canada. They will not be cut up and dumped in Lake Ontario because of "serious issues" as was the Avro Arrow.

[bush_cheney2004]

Truly. I still think he must have some financial interest in this flying butterball. The link I posted was pretty damning about the huge compromises made for the sake of limited stealth. Instead of responding to them, he posts pictures.

Nice try...I have no financial interest in LM. The astounding cost overruns are just part of the deal, to be endured long after the penny cent pinching Canadians run for cover. The Americans get things done.....and plan on using these aircraft to engage the enemy. These are the tools of war.

[shortlived]

Tier 3 Canada wants a piece of the action with subcontracts.

Well Canada wouldn't want to upset up all those US arms manufactures and shareholders. What would they do if they couldn't bid on contracts?

Edited March 11, 2013 by shortlived

[Guest Derek L]

Waldo said:

without engines now!!! Certainly, I've snarked about the numerous estimates out there... some with engines, some without. As I'm aware, I don't recall HarperConservatives ever reaching for that go-to in attempting to rationalize their low-ball numbers. But wait, what's this:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=19645&page=18#entry888923

If they are eventually acquired for less then estimated by DND, who’s info was gathered from both DoD and Lockheed, and less then the USN recently purchased Super Hornets for, would your criticism wane?

Something tells me no…..

perhaps I'll remind you again. My so-called championing, as you say, was simply me responding to you... yes you... bringing forward and linking to an article on Australia purchasing the Super-Hornet (after giving up on the F-35's lengthy delay and exorbitant costs). As for Super-Hornet costs, I did identify the latest costs per the latest USN purchase... I'm surprised you don't recall this since at the same time you pressed me for full support/life-cycle costing.

but yes, if you which to continue, you know where the current F-35 thread is, right?

And what of the yet undefined “drones”?

[shortlived]

why would the pentagon still buy with this sort of assessment

http://rt.com/usa/pentagon-f35-report-combat-012/

In a leaked memo from the Defense Department’s director of the Operational Test and Evaluation Directorate to the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Pentagon official prefaces a report on the F-35 by cautioning that even training missions cannot be safely performed on board the aircraft at this time.

Smoke?

Things can't be as bad as they sound, faulty engines, faulty cockpits.

But they have fitted the first anti ship missile test.

These things have two missiles able to be held in their internal

completely different story here..

How are the arctic flight tests going?

Edited March 20, 2013 by shortlived

[shortlived]

same jet with the engine problems suffered communication failure and needed to do an emergency landing civillian airport

http://everythinglubbock.com/fulltext?nxd_id=167562

on the flip side singapore is ordering over 9 billion of the jet.

Edited April 1, 2013 by shortlived

[Guest Derek L]

Yet:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-27/lockheed-s-troubled-f-35-said-to-be-unscathed-in-budget.html

The budget request, which doesn’t include money for war- related expenses such as the conflict in Afghanistan and troops in the Middle East, reflects the Pentagon’s commitment to the F-35, its most expensive weapons program, despite its soaring cost and pressures to cut Pentagon spending. Buying 29 F-35s next year, the same number Congress approved for the current year, would mean stability after reductions from planned purchases for three consecutive years.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/03/29/gao_stands_by_its_f35_report

The Government Accountability Office disagrees with Winslow Wheeler's characterization, in his March 22 article "Error Report," of our March 2013 report on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. We stand by our work -- past and present. The concluding observations from the report provide the full context and reasoning for our position on the F-35 as it stands today, including the clear rationale for not making new recommendations. We would point your readers to that and not the selected excerpts from Mr. Wheeler that fail to provide the full context.

So the GAO also disagreed with Winslow Wheeler's views on the aircraft? The very same gentleman that is one of the most vocal critics of the F-35 and the go to source of many in the Canadian media and Official Opposition..........

Only if there was a forum member here that has decried Wheeler's views from the start...........

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/european-business/dutch-orders-for-f-35-likely-to-be-scaled-back-sources/article10081027/

Dutch orders for the Pentagon’s F-35 warplane are likely to be cut back, sources close to the discussions told Reuters, citing cost overruns and delays in the program, uncertainty over the Netherlands’ defence strategy and budget cuts across Europe.

The Netherlands may cut 17 to 33 F-35s from its initial plans to buy 85 of the new warplanes, according to people close to the discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly since final decisions are not expected until later this year.

Said “rumoured cuts” have been branded about for years……….even still, this is quite different outcome from then those that said the Dutch would leave the program……..Tick-Tock Waldo

Oh and of course:

http://news.yahoo.com/japans-military-chief-says-f-35-best-fighter-125455472.html

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan's highest-ranking uniformed officer said on Wednesday that Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighters were the best choice for the nation's future operational needs as Tokyo wrestles with tensions with China and increasingly belligerent North Korea.

The vote of confidence in the state-of-the-art U.S. warplane comes amid reports that some nations that have placed orders for the F-35s are reconsidering their plans.

I thought some members suggested the F-35 wouldn’t be selected by the Japanese Defence Force….