Is Israel about to start another Gaza carnage?

[Guest Derek L]

Anonymous threatening Israel

http://anonnews.org/press/item/1885/

I would suggest that’s a “tactical error” on their part then………The Mossad has no reservations in making “problems disappear” globally….

Edited November 16, 2012 by Derek L

[cybercoma]

The last thing Anonymous should do is mess with Israeli intelligence. Anonymous is nuts.

[Guest Derek L]

The last thing Anonymous should do is mess with Israeli intelligence. Anonymous is nuts.

Yeah…..Like jumper cables attached to your nuts, nuts……And even then, that’s just the warm up for the Suxamethonium.....

[Sleipnir]

The last thing Anonymous should do is mess with Israeli intelligence. Anonymous is nuts.

I don't see what Israel can do against Anonymous.

[Bonam]

I don't see what Israel can do against Anonymous.

It's not so much what Israel can do but what anonymous stands to lose by alienating Jews around the world, of which some are very likely participants in and donors to anonymous.

[Sleipnir]

It's not so much what Israel can do but what anonymous stands to lose by alienating Jews around the world, of which some are very likely participants in and donors to anonymous.

How do you figure that Jews would make up a healthy proportion of donors to Anonymous? I'll admit, I know little about Anonymous.

[Bonam]

How do you figure that Jews would make up a healthy proportion of donors to Anonymous? I'll admit, I know little about Anonymous.

I don't know what portion of donors they are, but it's a safe bet they are a portion. Jews in the US and Canada tend to be politically liberal and well educated, meaning they are a demographic that is likely to support free flow of information, net neutrality, online privacy, etc, which are principles Anonymous supposedly "fights for".

[dre]

I don't know what portion of donors they are, but it's a safe bet they are a portion. Jews in the US and Canada tend to be politically liberal and well educated, meaning they are a demographic that is likely to support free flow of information, net neutrality, online privacy, etc, which are principles Anonymous supposedly "fights for".

That doesnt matter though because most of the worlds Jews dont support the occupation anyways. Even in ISrael there is a split amongst jews as to whether the occupation is either righteous or conducive to Israels long term interests.

So taking a stance against the occupation and plundering of resources in the occupied territories isnt necessarily going to turn jews against you.

[Bonam]

That doesnt matter though because most of the worlds Jews dont support the occupation anyways. Even in ISrael there is a split amongst jews as to whether the occupation is either righteous or conducive to Israels long term interests.

So taking a stance against the occupation and plundering of resources in the occupied territories isnt necessarily going to turn jews against you.

Except of course they aren't taking a stance against the "occupation", but are taking a stance against Israel's right to self-defense, as illustrated by the timing of the announcement, which is in response to the recent strikes in Gaza, which is a direct and necessary reaction to Hamas rocket fire into Israel.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Bonam

[cybercoma]

I don't see what Israel can do against Anonymous.

You want to see an intelligence agency dig these people up... the Israelis are the most likely to be able to do it.

[dre]

Except of course they aren't taking a stance against the "occupation", but are taking a stance against Israel's right to self-defense, as illustrated by the timing of the announcement, which is in response to the recent strikes in Gaza, which is a direct and necessary reaction to Hamas rocket fire into Israel.

Thats nothing more than your own opinion. Both the blockade and occupations are overt acts of war, and the palestinians are responding exactly how any reasonable person would expect them to.

When you are blockading a region, and threatening to sink the ships of its trading partner, you dont get to claim self defense when theres a response to that aggression.

[Bonam]

Thats nothing more than your own opinion.

No those are facts based on the timeline of events.

Both the blockade and occupations are overt acts of war, and the palestinians are responding exactly how any reasonable person would expect them to. When you are blockading a region, and threatening to sink the ships of its trading partner, you dont get to claim self defense when theres a response to that aggression.

That argument might have some merit if the blockade was just imposed willy-nilly as an act of aggression, rather than for a good reason.

[Bryan]

The only point is the right of the Israelis Palestinians to defend themselves. That's all there is. If there were no attacks going one way, there would be no retaliation going the other way.

Fixed that for you.

[Guest Derek L]

I don't see what Israel can do against Anonymous.

Perhaps Anonymous has something going for it that the PLO, Hezbollah, Hamas and the Nazis didn’t………At the end of the day, what’s Anonymous going to do to Israel though? Embarrass them or foster negative opinion of them on the world stage?

As Golda Meir once said:

Ability hits the mark where presumption overshoots and diffidence falls short.

I put my money on the Mossad.

[dre]

At the end of the day, what’s Anonymous going to do to Israel though?

With the worlds reliance on interconnected networks, a group like Anonymous can actually make quite a mess, and cost you a whole lot of money.

[Guest Derek L]

With the worlds reliance on interconnected networks, a group like Anonymous can actually make quite a mess, and cost you a whole lot of money.

Perhaps, but I’d hazard a guess that the Israelis value life more than money………..Based on precedent of their nations relatively short lifespan, the Israelis have handled all forms of perceived aggression against them….Will a bunch of hackers do to Israel what the Muslim world has failed to do to date? I doubt it….And if said attacks become more than an annoyance, said hackers will start to “disappear”……..

[dre]

Perhaps, but I’d hazard a guess that the Israelis value life more than money………..Based on precedent of their nations relatively short lifespan, the Israelis have handled all forms of perceived aggression against them….Will a bunch of hackers do to Israel what the Muslim world has failed to do to date? I doubt it….And if said attacks become more than an annoyance, said hackers will start to “disappear”……..

Israel has both doled out and recieved aggression at every turn. It is not an innocent victim by any means.

[Guest Derek L]

Israel has both doled out and recieved aggression at every turn. It is not an innocent victim by any means.

And yet, Israel is still standing...............As for their “innocence”, I never claimed that to be or not to be the case…………..

[Hudson Jones]

It's not so much what Israel can do but what anonymous stands to lose by alienating Jews around the world, of which some are very likely participants in and donors to anonymous.

I am sure most who support Anonymous and what they stand for are not selective about their stance. Especially since Anonymous is principle driven. They know Anonymous stands for open internet and human rights and if Israel is going against those, then they become an enemy of Anonymous. It's also naive to say that all Jews support Israel's actions.

This is not the first time that Anonymous has threatened Israel:

This is after the flotilla attack:

Israel denies being successfully attacked by ‘Anonymous’ over Gaza flotillas

Websites for the Israeli military and intelligence services were down on Sunday, the start of the Israeli work-week. The outage followed hacktvist group Anonymous joining calls against the interception of aid flotillas bound for Gaza with a warning video, all which Israel ignored.

Equally, however, Anonymous, which has gained notoriety for being able to bring down websites for powerful trans-national organisations such as MasterCard, has also successfully brought about the shutdown of government websites.

The Iranian government has fallen foul of Anonymous facing its signature DDoS attacks on key Iranian government websites and the sites of organisations linked to Iran. Websites of the current Syrian regime, which has been bloodily suppressing Arab Spring protests, have also been successfully been breached by Anonymous.

[Merlin]

if Arabs weren't firing rockets over to Israel none of this would need to happen. If Israel wanted to it could wipe out the Gaza strip entirely and kill every Arab in it and there would be very little that the Arabs could do about it.

[Hudson Jones]

if Arabs weren't firing rockets over to Israel none of this would need to happen.

See the timeline of events to see that Israel broke the ceasefire two times in the past week. It is like they want to provoke Hamas into a war. They did the same thing in the last attack on Gaza in 2008.

If Israel wanted to it could wipe out the Gaza strip entirely and kill every Arab in it and there would be very little that the Arabs could do about it.

Israel's public relations is working overtime to keep support for its actions right now. They've pushed the envelope as far as they could and if they push any further, EU and even U.S. will not be able to support them. So your arrogant assertion that Israel could wipe out an entire people and no one would do anything about it is wrong.

[Hudson Jones]

So is that you saying "no different?" Or you defending what "they see?" Because it sounds an awful lot like you are defending suicide attacks to me. Suicide attacks that are aimed at purposely killing civilians. Like that child in the image you posted.

I'm not defending suicide attacks. I am saying exactly what I said: They use suicide attacks and homemade rockets as retaliation because they do not have jets, tanks, helicopters and the latest gadgets given to them by the U.S. That's the only weapon they have to hurt their enemy.

Who has ever "justified" that?

Who? see your comment below:

It is what it is - which is unavoidable at times

- and when Hamas stores its rockets among civilians, the likelihood of civilian death becomes that much greater. Where is your outrage over that?

This is propaganda to justify the killing of civilians. It's more than likely that it is true that Hamas has placed rockets in areas where civilians are present from time to time, but as I recall from the Goldstone report, many of the civilians who were killed by Israel were nowhere near militants.

There is also the ridiculous expectation that Hamas should be somehow out in the open like they are some advanced military fighting toe to toe with another military.

"Usually?" I'd ask for evidence, but for now I'll take your admission that it's not "always,"

You should look at the statistics of rocket attacks. Hamas has actually been trying to round up other groups who fire rockets into Israel. When Hamas fires rockets, they do so after an Israeli attack. So yes. It's usually.

as I'm still waiting for evidence of the "carpet bombing you referred to - because I don't see that in any of the 'examples' that you followed with.

The carpet bombing was a reference to Israeli attack on Gaza in 2008. Evidence is in the numbers. Number of deaths, injured, homes destroyed. Evidence is in the reports and investigations. Evidence is in the images that are easily available.

A "lull?" How long was this "lull?" And what preceded it? But evidently the 12 year old continued to play soccer in the same area that "Israeli soldier invaded." Where there were also "Palestinian fighters."

Blame the boy for getting in the way of the Israeli bullet. Shame on him and good for you for pointing out the obvious.

Yes, his death is sad, but Israel certainly did not set out with the intention of killing him. Why wasn't he somewhere safe?

Israel has been shown to be careless in avoiding civilian deaths and committing war crimes. The Goldstone Report is one of the places that you can look into this.

Israel is surrounded by Arab, Islamic nations - who refuse to recognize the Jewish state.

Wrong.

The Arab League Renews Its Peace Plan Offer

Israel is dealing with Hamas, who refuses to accept Israel

Too bad for Hamas, Israel exists. What do you say about Israel accepting a Palestinian State? Israel is even getting angry that Palestinians are requesting to receive "Observer Status" at the UN. Funny, I know.

The Palestinians, frustrated with a four-year impasse in peace efforts, say they will ask the UN General Assembly on Nov. 29 to give them upgraded observer status.

Among other things, it could withhold the transfer of millions of dollars in taxes and customs it collects on behalf of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' West Bank government and block the import of equipment for Palestinian security forces, an Israeli official explained.

and has said that Jewish children worldwide are a legitimate target. How does that amount to "defense," as you say?

You mean when this happened?

Hamas commander Mahmoud Zahar said: 'The Zionists have legitimised the killing of their children by killing our children. They have legitimised the killing of their people all over the world by killing our people.'

Palestinians carry the bodies of three young brothers, Ahmed, Mohamed and Issa Samouni, during their funeral in Gaza City

His message, broadcast hours after an Israeli shell killed the children, their mother and nine of their relatives, ended with an order to Palestinians to 'Crush your enemy'. Israel began its blitz, which has now killed 541 people.

Sounds like he is justifying the deaths of civilians just like you justify the deaths civilians. The difference is that you justify the deaths that have already happened, their comment is made after 3 more children were killed by Israel. I suppose you're a little worse than Hamas.

Furthermore, Hamas has been sending rockets into Israeli cities at an increasing rate:

Yes. Hamas has increased their response in response to Israel's initial attacks.

The following post from Huffington Post's article does not make sense:

Hamas has fired

The link above takes us to a CNN site from November 15th that says nothing about Hamas rocket attacks since 2012. It does talk about 800 rockets from Gaza, which makes a difference. Most of these rockets have been fired by Islamic Jihad and not Hamas. A point that should not be looked over. Hamas has actually tried to minimize rocket attacks due to pressure from the Arab league and donors from Qatar who they mostly rely on now that their alliance with Syria and Iran has pretty much ended since they spoke out against Assad and his attacks on its own people.

I think by now we can both agree that it wasn't because of "carpet bombing," right? You're not still holding on to that claim, are you?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have never seen any rocket attacks by Hamas being done without provocation. Provocations include: Assassination of a Hamas leader, killing children and other attacks on Hamas members. Hamas has called always been the one to call a ceasefire and a truce and Israel has always been the one to break them.

if Hamas had more value for Palestinian lives, there would likely be a lot less deaths.

Should Hamas roll over and pretend nothing is happening? Should they accept the blockade? Should they accept Israel's refusal to allow a Palestinian state? They have tried having a truce, yet Israel has broken the truce. Israel counts on retaliations because they want the status quo to continue. They need an enemy.

I've already quoted the statements coming out of the U.S., Canada, and the U.K. - and now I will add Hague's condemnation of the rocket attacks, which you keep defending (emphasis mine):

"

Hamas bears principal responsibility for the current crisis.

I utterly condemn rocket attacks from Gaza into southern Israel by Hamas and other armed groups."

http://icscotland.ic...-name_page.html

Yet you keep putting the blame on Israel.

Oh goody. Finish it off with a comment from the British foreign minister like the governments of the U.K. and U.S. are going to give unbiased comments when Hamas and Israel are involved.

How about we go back to the timeline again since these facts are unbiased right after we acknowledge that Israel is engaging in provocation because they need to be in a state of war to continue what they're doing.

Self-defense or provocation: Israel's history of breaking ceasefires

- TIMELINE: ISRAEL'S LATEST ESCALATION IN GAZA -

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8

Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a 12-year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer.

Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier.

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10

An anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian fighters wounds four Israeli soldiers driving in a jeep along the Israel-Gaza boundary.

An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged 16 and 17. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians, and wounding more than two dozen others.

SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11

One Palestinian civilian is killed and dozens more wounded in Israeli attacks. Four Israeli civilians are also injured as a result of projectiles launched from Gaza, according to the Israeli government.

During an Israeli government cabinet meeting, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz urges the government to "cut off the head of the snake... take out the leadership of Hamas in Gaza." He also calls for a cutting off of water, food, electricity, and fuel shipments to Gaza's 1.7 million people.

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12

Palestinian militant factions agree to a truce if Israel ends its attacks.

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14

Israel breaks two days of calm by assassinating Ahmed Jabari, the head of Hamas' military wing. According to reports, at least eight other Palestinians are killed in Israeli attacks, including at least two children. Palestinian militant groups vow to respond.

[Topaz]

I hope this is not going to lead to another war and drag on like the Afghanistan war, but I fear it is and if Harper backs NATO, our soldiers will be back into the thick of it again. The following article, says that this is the road to take out Syria and Iran, and Israel to take back Gaza. http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-invasion-of-gaza-part-of-a-broader-us-nato-israel-military-agenda-towards-a-scenario-of-military-escalation/5311957

[GostHacked]

if Arabs weren't firing rockets over to Israel none of this would need to happen. If Israel wanted to it could wipe out the Gaza strip entirely and kill every Arab in it and there would be very little that the Arabs could do about it.

If that ends the conflict tomorrow, then I am all for it. It's been going on longer than I have been alive.

[Rue]

Hudson Jones if that is your real name, your continuing propoganda campaign against Israel sounds remarkably similiar in syntax and

grammar to Bud.

I find your continuing series of lectures what I have come to expect from many on this forum.

You do not debate. You lecture. You demand people agree with you, or you call them names, including suggesting they are Nazis if they support Israel's right to defend itself. Oh I got the comparison early on in your posts.

I also note your continued time line is censored and of course selective with no mention of the continuous attacks on Israel from Hamas. You white wash what has actually transpired misrepresenting the latest conflict as simply arising because of an Israeli arbitrary attack.

The fact is since the Syrian cell of Hamas wrestled control of that organization from the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt controlled cell, Hamas has launched a continuous declared state of war against Israel and yet you try white wash the conflict as if Hamas has done nothing but be innocently attacked.

Your time line of course does not mention when the Syrian cell wrestled control from Hamas it immediately blew up the roads, bridges, schools, mosques, hospitals, greenhouses, Muslim charities indirectly affiliated with it and funded by Israel had built up and clearly demonstrated that the

government of Israel was willing to live peacefully with Palestinians in Gaza. That you ignore.

You ignore Israel funded those charities because Arafat and his cronies were stealing all the foreign aid money being sent to Palestinians and placing it in bank accounts in Marseilles and Switzerland with full protection of France's intelligence force, La Deuxieme Bureau.

You ignore Hamas set out on a terror campaign lighting Palestinians on fire with tires as a demonstration to other Palestinians never to work in Israel or work with Israelis.

You forget Hamas stated to Israel if it vacated Israel it would stop attacks on Israel and the day Israel withdrew it attacked Israel once again, and has since the date of Israel's last ithdrawal on a daily basis sent missiles into Israel and has shot at and killed Israeli military on Israel soil at the border with Gaza and the day before the Hamas military leader was killed, Hamas killed an Israeli officer on the Israel side of the border.

You ignore the other Israeli soldiers killed or the attempts to infiltrate the Israel border.

You ignore that since Mubarak was deposed, Hamas rocket attacks and attempts to cross the border into Israel as well as attacks on the IDF along the border have escalated and Israel time and time again showed constraint and did not respond. That you ignore.

Your time line for example ignores in the first two weeks of 2011, 20 rockets were shot into Israel and that in 2012, 462 rockets were shot into Israel before Nov.14, and since that sime another 335 not counting the last two days.

In your world Hamas does nothing. Israel simply has nothing better to do then start a war because of an upcoming election.

In your world nto withstanding the fact that 30% of Israel's population has stress related mental disorders from living in the South, Israel acts for no reason. The daily missile attacks are meaningless and when IDF on Israel's side of the border are murdered or Israeli civilians are murdered you are

of course silent.

Your predictable pro Hamas revisionism right from the script of Iran's foreign Ministry verbatum, suggests Israel is the only aggressor and only Palestinians are victims.

The fact is civilians on both sides will suffer and the fact is you can spin all you want how Israel is, most people get it. They get it. They know Israel

can not sit idly by while daily Hamas continues in a state of war with it to destroy it and attacks it. It will defend itself.

None of us who support Israel want innocent Palestinians killed any more than we do Israelis.

The difference between you and me is I do not work for someone to write this response. I do not sit in an arm chair giving one sided diatribes as if I understand the small geographic distance that seperates Israelis from Palestinians or understand the impact of missiles and their target range or the number of attacks on the IDF there have been.

I was there. I saw the consequences and make no mistake if it is a war Hamas wants it is going to be what they get.

Iran has deliberately sent them weapons via Syria to open up a second front to dettract from Iran's ally about to lose the Syrian civil war. It has opened up a second front of missile attacks as a show to Israel not to bomb its nuclear weapon. Israel is already at war with Iran. It has been since the lunatic Iranian leader called for the wiping out of Israel and denied the holocaust.

Iran has been funding Hezbollah and the Syrian wing of Hamas, its two most important allies in a war against Israel.

The hilarious development is to watch the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt suck up now to the same Hamas cell that murdered 10,000 Sunni Muslims affiliated with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, in Syria in one night alone.

In the Middle East its an old story. When the Muslim world has a civil war between its factions, it starts a war with Israel to unify itself albeit temporarily.