More religious nutjobbery

[scribblet]

Yep, this is completely retarded.

Reminds me somewhat of the girl in the Dominican Republic who died because doctors couldn't give her chemotherapy because it would harm the fetus. They could give her chemotherapy once she was sick enough that her condition forced a miscarriage, by which point it was too late to save her.

Scumbags.

Meanwhile in America: H.R. 358. Just saying.

-k

Did the President veto that bill, at the time it was said he would.

[Mighty AC]

Firstly, I think you have posted a video to make an argument for you rather than making your argument. That's a technical point, though.

Secondly, I don't agree with posters condemning groups by posting bad acts performed by their members. Are you condemning men ? Young people ? Britons ? Finger pointing isn't helpful, and reflects your biases just as much as any bad behavior being shown. It takes and observer and an observed to show perspective.

Also - and this is a personal view - this kind of posting can't possibly lead to productive discussion.

A picture is worth a thousand words. I make frequent textual posts on the immorality of religion; however, sometimes a video compilation says much more than we can in text. This shows a fraction of the evil deads committed in the name of religion in just a month. Evil is certainly committed by people in all walks of life, but the bulk of the despicable acts shown are done while following the rules of the supposed source of morality.

[Michael Hardner]

A picture is worth a thousand words. I make frequent textual posts on the immorality of religion; however, sometimes a video compilation says much more than we can in text.

Sure, however it's not your argument. You're just posting another argument, really. And the board is new to the idea of posted images and videos, so the moderators are careful to mitigate how they're used. I don't believe they should be a proxy for expressing your POV.

This shows a fraction of the evil deads committed in the name of religion in just a month. Evil is certainly committed by people in all walks of life, but the bulk of the despicable acts shown are done while following the rules of the supposed source of morality.

? So how does posting them constitute evidence then ? Somebody can post the evidence showing the number of evil deeds that are committed due to religion rather than posting these links.

[Mighty AC]

We do discuss individual cases of religious nutjobbery, hence the existence of this thread. However, text cannot create the impact of seeing the phenomenal number of cases from a single month, back to back to back. Text cannot convey emotion as efficiently.

Countless discussions start with a link to a news story and a comment like "More Liberal entitlements", "Harper's hidden agenda", etc. We link to text based articles that support our arguments all the time, why should a video be treated differently? Plus I'm sure you are aware that linked articles are frequently ignored by posters. I doubt dozens of links would improve the uptake.

In short, the posted video is evocative, efficient evidence that contributes to an argument that I (and others) have made in this and other threads.

[Mighty AC]

Secondly, I don't agree with posters condemning groups by posting bad acts performed by their members. Are you condemning men ? Young people ? Britons ? Finger pointing isn't helpful, and reflects your biases just as much as any bad behavior being shown. It takes and observer and an observed to show perspective.

I agree with your point about condemning a group based on the acts of some of its members, unless the rules, guidelines or beliefs of the group are the source of the immoral behaviour. I don't blame PETA if rogue members burn down a fur shop or the RCC when a priest rapes a child. However, I do condemn the RCC for enabling and covering up rape. I do condemn religions when their scripture commands and encourages violence, racism, sexism and discriminatory acts of all kinds.

[Michael Hardner]

We do discuss individual cases of religious nutjobbery, hence the existence of this thread. However, text cannot create the impact of seeing the phenomenal number of cases from a single month, back to back to back. Text cannot convey emotion as efficiently.

Countless discussions start with a link to a news story and a comment like "More Liberal entitlements", "Harper's hidden agenda", etc. We link to text based articles that support our arguments all the time, why should a video be treated differently? Plus I'm sure you are aware that linked articles are frequently ignored by posters. I doubt dozens of links would improve the uptake.

I asked the mods to comment on this example.

[Michael Hardner]

I agree with your point about condemning a group based on the acts of some of its members, unless the rules, guidelines or beliefs of the group are the source of the immoral behaviour. I don't blame PETA if rogue members burn down a fur shop or the RCC when a priest rapes a child. However, I do condemn the RCC for enabling and covering up rape. I do condemn religions when their scripture commands and encourages violence, racism, sexism and discriminatory acts of all kinds.

I concur on the first point, but on the second point - our holy books are journals of ancient life at the dawn of history - there are dozens of contradictory edicts and instructions. If you want to blame the books for the bad behavior that they cause, are you going to thank them for the good behavior ?

And - how can you be sure that the book causes behavior at all, versus rationalizing behavior ? Tough questions.

[Mighty AC]

I concur on the first point, but on the second point - our holy books are journals of ancient life at the dawn of history - there are dozens of contradictory edicts and instructions. If you want to blame the books for the bad behavior that they cause, are you going to thank them for the good behavior ?

And - how can you be sure that the book causes behavior at all, versus rationalizing behavior ? Tough questions.

True, to be precise I actually have no beef with the book just some of the people that wield them. Religions interpret the books and command the sheep to follow their take. For example, the RCC and Baptists discriminate against homosexuals, while the United Church does not. On this point I do not have a problem with the latter yet all three groups use the same books. So I don't blame the books, I blame the people using them to back up their immorality.

[Guest American Woman]

Did the President veto that bill, at the time it was said he would.

No need. It wasn't passed by the Senate.

H.R. 358 (112^th): Protect Life Act

Introduced: Jan 20, 2011 (112^th Congress, 2011–2013) Sponsor: Rep. Joseph Pitts [R-PA16] Status: Died (Passed House) STATUS This bill was introduced in a previous session of Congress and was passed by the House on October 13, 2011 but was never passed by the Senate. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr358

[Michael Hardner]

True, to be precise I actually have no beef with the book just some of the people that wield them. Religions interpret the books and command the sheep to follow their take. For example, the RCC and Baptists discriminate against homosexuals, while the United Church does not. On this point I do not have a problem with the latter yet all three groups use the same books. So I don't blame the books, I blame the people using them to back up their immorality.

So... the open question is how much do the books direct group behaviors, and what are the overall results ?

Jared Diamond in Guns, Germs and Steel submits that the dual loyalty that Europeans held to church and state helped made Christianity a basis for wealth. Also the stuff about personal property being yours and not the emperor`s, as opposed to Ming China.

[Mighty AC]

Wow. According to Pat Robertson, God wants you to be stupid.

On Mondays episode of CBNs The 700 Club, Robertson responded to a viewer who wanted to know why amazing miracles (people raised from the dead, blind eyes open, lame people walking) happen with great frequency in places like Africa, and not here in the USA?

People overseas didnt go to Ivy League schools, the TV preacher laughed. Were so sophisticated, we think weve got everything figured out. We know about evolution, we know about Darwin, we know about all these things that says God isnt real.

We have been inundated with skepticism and secularism, he conintued. And overseas, theyre simple, humble. You tell em God loves em and they say, Okay, he loves me. You say God will do miracles and they say, Okay, we believe him.

And thats what Gods looking for. Thats why they have miracles.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/01/robertson-god-gives-less-miracles-to-too-educated-americans-who-learn-science/

Pat has done a lot for conservative Christianity; but, even his followers must be getting tired of him now. He reminds me of a racist old grandparent, that people have an obligatory connection to, but wish they would shut up in public.

[the janitor]

Wow, that's just wrong. Completely unacceptable.

Hopefully there is a criminal investigation into the doctors involved and the hospital, as well as a serious review of Ireland's policies.

As for HR 358, thankfully the Christaeofascist party didn't win the white house, so Obama can veto it.

Christaeofascist? What the hell is that?

[sharkman]

Wow. According to Pat Robertson, God wants you to be stupid.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/01/robertson-god-gives-less-miracles-to-too-educated-americans-who-learn-science/

Pat has done a lot for conservative Christianity; but, even his followers must be getting tired of him now. He reminds me of a racist old grandparent, that people have an obligatory connection to, but wish they would shut up in public.

Could you list the actual quote where Robertson says God wants us to be stupid? Because I think you missed the gist of what he was saying.

[Sleipnir]

I asked the mods to comment on this example.

What mods? There's only you and Anthony.

[kimmy]

Mississippi high-school students forced to attend Christian sermon.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/25/mississippi-high-school-forced-students-to-attend-christian-lecture/

-k

[betsy]

Talk about nutjobbery....though this one belongs to the opposite camp:

New York Middle School Forces Girls To Kiss Each Other And Boys How To Identify ‘Sluts’

Stellar reporting once again by Todd Starnes at Fox, about Linden Avenue Middle School in Red Hook, NY and an anti-bullying presentation on gender identity and sexual orientation.

Girls were made to ask other girls for a kiss and stand in front of the class and pretend they were lesbians on a date. Boys were taught how to tell if women are sluts.

Needless to say, parents are infuriated:

http://www.unitedstarseeds.com/profiles/blogs/new-york-middle-school-forces-girls-to-kiss-each-other-and-boys#.UXwkIP9zbIU

Why are schools so preoccupied with sex - gay sex in particular?

[Argus]

Talk about nutjobbery....though this one belongs to the opposite camp:http://www.unitedstarseeds.com/profiles/blogs/new-york-middle-school-forces-girls-to-kiss-each-other-and-boys#.UXwkIP9zbIU

Why are schools so preoccupied with sex - gay sex in particular?

No, this one is practical. It's good to know which girls are sluts so you know who to ask on a date.