Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

[bud]

So the answer is no, you do not support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

the answer is that you have a hard time comprehending what i said.

if the israelis and the palestinians can figure out the refugee problem, which looks like they have in the past through compensation and land swap, then whatever racist, apartheid law israel wants to implement inside israel, then i don't care.

at the moment, my problem with israel is the always increasing annexation and theft of palestinian land in the west bank and east jerusalem.

do you support the right of palestinians to have a state alongside an israeli state?

[Guest American Woman]

the answer is that you have a hard time comprehending what i said.

I can comprehend "yes" and "no" just fine. So which is it? Do you support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State? Yes or no?

[

do you support the right of palestinians to have a state alongside an israeli state?

I've already said - repeatedly - that I support Palestine's right to have a state.

[DogOnPorch]

What is your confusion? My statement (to me anyways) seemed clear and straight forward.

But, you KNOW that's not what I said. You responded with a typical strawman.

Edited October 31, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[bud]

I can comprehend "yes" and "no" just fine. So which is it? Do you support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State? Yes or no?

yes, as long as they can figure out the issue with the palestinian refugees who have a right to that land more than majority of the israelis who live in israel.

I've already said - repeatedly - that I support Palestine's right to have a state.

good girl.

[Guest American Woman]

yes, as long as they can figure out the issue with the palestinian refugees who have a right to that land more than majority of the israelis who live in israel.

So in other words, yes, but .....

good girl.

Sit, Ubu, sit. Good dog.

[DogOnPorch]

So in other words, yes, but .....

In other words...right of return for everybody claiming to be 'Palestinian' and their extended families. So as long as the Jewish Israelis have 37.6 children each, it should safely remain a Jewish state.

Sit, Ubu, sit. Good dog.

Now had I said that...

[Guest American Woman]

In other words...right of return for everybody claiming to be 'Palestinian' and their extended families. So as long as the Jewish Israelis have 37.6 children each, it should safely remain a Jewish state.

Exactly. When people have to qualify their answers with a "but....", it pretty much tells where they are coming from.

Now had I said that...

It was pretty appropriate under the circumstances.

Edited October 31, 2012 by American Woman

[bud]

of course there is a "but". when hundreds of thousands of people's rights to the land has not yet been resolved, then we cannot move to the next step. over 500 palestinian villages in the modern day israel were demolished by the israeli army and militia. over 700,000 people were either driven out or they were forced to escape. their fate needs to be resolved in the form of compensation and land swap. once that is resolved, then, as mentioned, israel can implement whatever racist laws they want inside israel. (not to say that their laws are not already racist).

[TheNewTeddy]

It is interesting...

What if Israel holds a referendum, a free vote, and 60% vote for Apartheid.

Are we going to go in there and tell them that their democracy is invalid? That their people are not permitted to choose this option?

Only one person bothered to respond to this, despite the fact that the poll that started the thread suggests this.

[DogOnPorch]

Only one person bothered to respond to this, despite the fact that the poll that started the thread suggests this.

For this very hypothetical scenario to occur, Israel would first have to annex the West Bank. Then...voting or not...would have to carry Apartheid out in practice by force. This makes it rather pointless to annex the place at that point. Why not just give them the boot like the Arabs did to the Jews? This is the usual jim-jam from Haaretz which is what we in Canada would call left wing. What's the next poll Haaretz will have? Would Sarah Silverman make a good Prime Minister of Israel? Should Kosher dill pickles be circumcised? Seventy-two percent say yes...lol.

Edited November 1, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[bud]

For this very hypothetical scenario to occur, Israel would first have to annex the West Bank.

israel has already annexed major parts of the west bank where the illegal settlements are where palestinians are not allowed to travel through. they've also annexed east jerusalem. it's not so hypothetical when it is happening.

[Mr.Canada]

israel has already annexed major parts of the west bank where the illegal settlements are where palestinians are not allowed to travel through. they've also annexed east jerusalem. it's not so hypothetical when it is happening.

As long as Arab rockets and suicide bombers are killing Israeli citizens the Arabs have nothing to bargain with. They are simply wasting their time. Crowds in Gaza and west bank cheer when 9/11 attacks happen and cheer when an Arab blows himself up in Israel. Hamas which is the Arab government in those places in listed as a terrorist group around the world and you want the Israeli government to sit down and have meaningful discussion with them?

Please take off your blinders.

[GostHacked]

For this very hypothetical scenario to occur, Israel would first have to annex the West Bank.

It might not be a total annexation , however, let's take a look at the path that this barrier that is in place to protect Israel. Hmmmm interesting.

Edited November 1, 2012 by GostHacked

[DogOnPorch]

It might not be a total annexation , however, let's take a look at the path that this barrier that is in place to protect Israel. Hmmmm interesting.

As with bud's post, pure speculation. We both know WHY Israel built a wall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence

[GostHacked]

As with bud's post, pure speculation. We both know WHY Israel built a wall.

http://en.wikipedia....itical_violence

Well, that is what Israel claims. Not buying it.

[DogOnPorch]

Well, that is what Israel claims. Not buying it.

You're not 'buying it'? What part of suicide bombers don't you get?

[GostHacked]

You're not 'buying it'? What part of suicide bombers don't you get?

Next they will need to build a dome to protect against rockets.

[DogOnPorch]

Next they will need to build a dome to protect against rockets.

In your view, are the rockets not a problem?

[Guest American Woman]

of course there is a "but". when hundreds of thousands of people's rights to the land has not yet been resolved, then we cannot move to the next step.

I'm not asking you what your solution to the conflict is; I'm asking a simple yes-or-no question. Do you support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

[bud]

I'm not asking you what your solution to the conflict is; I'm asking a simple yes-or-no question. Do you support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

and you got my answer.

as long as they're able to deal with the hundreds of thousands of refugees that were driven out of what is now israel, then yes. if they cannot deal with it, then no.

capiche?

[DogOnPorch]

capiche?

Annnnnnnd.....37.6 children it is.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/01/mahmoud-abbas-tells-israelis-he-rejects-palestinian-right-to-return-terrorism/

Edited November 2, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[Guest American Woman]

and you got my answer.

So your answer isn't "yes."

as long as they're able to deal with the hundreds of thousands of refugees that were driven out of what is now israel, then yes. if they cannot deal with it, then no.

capiche?

Absolutely, and it's just as I thought.

[bud]

So your answer isn't "yes."

Absolutely, and it's just as I thought.

i accept israel as a state just like international law does and majority of the world does.

as far as accepting israel as a 'jewish' state, which basically means not dealing with the palestinian refugees who were driven out of what is now israel, my answer is yes on the condition of dealing with the refugee problem first.

any person with an ounce of moral value and respect for international law would also agree that we can't just sweep the question of the status of the refugees under the rug and pretend that they're not there. that needs to be dealt with first as according to international law.

here is a chance for you to learn something:

• Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. -Article 13(2), Universal Declaration of Human Rights (10 December 1948).
  

• The Geneva Conventions of 1949.
  

• The General Assembly, Having considered further the situation in Palestine ... Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible." -UN General Assembly Resolution 194 (11 December 1948)
  
• United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3236 which "reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return".
  

• Resolution 242 from the UN affirms the necessity for "achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem."
  

• Palestinian refugees should be free to seek their right to repatriation, regardless of what the PLO acquiesces to, so long as UN Resolution 194 remains in force".
  

• No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country. -Article 12, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (23 March 1976).
  

Edited November 3, 2012 by bud

[dre]

I'm not asking you what your solution to the conflict is; I'm asking a simple yes-or-no question. Do you support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

It doesnt matter whether people support Israel as a jewish state or not. Whats more important is that people recognize Israel or any other state as having the right to self determination.

[Guest American Woman]

It doesnt matter whether people support Israel as a jewish state or not.

That's your opinion.

Whats more important is that people recognize Israel or any other state as having the right to self determination.

Considering the circumstances, I disagree. Furthermore, it's not for you to determine.