Omar is back

[DogOnPorch]

It was an assessment of your treatable condition, not an attack.

And another attack.

[Guest American Woman]

Why bother posting "link" if its just going to take me to Wikipedia? Yep, now I'm convinced.

Are you unable to link to the sources that are provided in Wikipedia? I perhaps gave you too much credit?

But way to refute it. You sure convinced me with your 'non-evidence to the contrary.'

[PIK]

Here is a question going around, what if he escaped instead of being catured, what would omar be doing today. Stayed and died in another battle? Became a leading member like his #3 father in al quada? Maybe ended up in a battle with canadians and killed some or his weapons he help make, could have killed some? Or maybe just a trainer like some other members of the family or just help with finacing like other members of the family? And did the weapons he help build kill our own? , how do we know he does not have canadian blood on his hands.

[madmax]

Why bother posting "link" if its just going to take me to Wikipedia? Yep, now I'm convinced.

What that does demonstrate is an eagerness to play with guns and mines and engage in warplay. I am sure many kids play GI JOE but few get to do it for real. And unlike kids of the Lords Resistance, it is voluntary.

However, kids also like to smoke pot and or cigs, party all night, drive a car, have sex with other kids their age and possible steal. But Parents are SUPPOSED to take responsibility and say NO to such activities.

No different then a Bad parent who teaches his children to steal, play with kniges and guns and not to trust the police.

I have seen 8 years taken through this process, and yes, surprise, they become thieves with knife and firearms skills and a hatred towards police.

I am convinced that if his father wasn't part of Al Qaeda , neither would this young lad have taken up a jihad.

He could just as easily spent more time on the Xbox playing......in Canada.

[eyeball]

Since this is the comment I was responding to - I'm sure Omar was quite aware of the threat of death if he rebelled, the same threat all child soldiers are subject to - I was obviously referring to the person who he felt such a threat from; ie: his dad - who was an immigrant to Canada.

So now you're on Omar's side? Okay, whatever you say.

[Guest American Woman]

So now you're on Omar's side? Okay, whatever you say.

I'd explain it to you, but there's really no point .......

[blueblood]

What that does demonstrate is an eagerness to play with guns and mines and engage in warplay. I am sure many kids play GI JOE but few get to do it for real. And unlike kids of the Lords Resistance, it is voluntary.

However, kids also like to smoke pot and or cigs, party all night, drive a car, have sex with other kids their age and possible steal. But Parents are SUPPOSED to take responsibility and say NO to such activities.

No different then a Bad parent who teaches his children to steal, play with kniges and guns and not to trust the police.

I have seen 8 years taken through this process, and yes, surprise, they become thieves with knife and firearms skills and a hatred towards police.

I am convinced that if his father wasn't part of Al Qaeda , neither would this young lad have taken up a jihad.

He could just as easily spent more time on the Xbox playing......in Canada.

Omar will probably be still in the justice system for quite some time. If he gets released on parole, one can only imagine the conditions he will have and how long those conditions will last. I smell door knocks every night at 2,3,4,5 in the morning...

[Signals.Cpl]

Here is a question going around, what if he escaped instead of being catured, what would omar be doing today. Stayed and died in another battle? Became a leading member like his #3 father in al quada? Maybe ended up in a battle with canadians and killed some or his weapons he help make, could have killed some? Or maybe just a trainer like some other members of the family or just help with finacing like other members of the family? And did the weapons he help build kill our own? , how do we know he does not have canadian blood on his hands.

Why would he care if he has Canadian blood on his hands? He is Canadian when someone has to get him out of trouble, I doubt he would care if he killed a Canadian Soldier, he didn't care about killing and American...

[madmax]

Here is a question going around, what if he escaped instead of being catured, what would omar be doing today. Stayed and died in another battle?

Very Likely.

Became a leading member like his #3 father in al quada?

His Father was NOT #3 in Al Qaeda. Read any intelligence book on the subject written in the 90s and you will see exactly what position and role he was in. And I don't feel like telling you the name his father was given in Al Qaeda but its NOT hard to find.

Maybe ended up in a battle with canadians and killed some or his weapons he help make, could have killed some? Or maybe just a trainer like some other members of the family or just help with finacing like other members of the family? And did the weapons he help build kill our own? , how do we know he does not have canadian blood on his hands.

Now that you are done speculating.....

Back from the hypothetical to the current real circumstances.

He is in Canada and in Millhaven to serve a sentence.

[Signals.Cpl]

He will be followed and tracked by intelligence services of more then one country and org regardless of "conditions" .

And in all likelyhood a "terrorist cell" is doubtful to have anything to do with him, as he could be considered comprised, like his older brother.

Why? Here we have some pos who killed an American soldier, admitted to it but is left with an avenue to deny it, he will sue the Canadian government and get millions of dollars. And best of all he will be virtually untouchable by Canadian Authorities.

[eyeball]

I'd explain it to you, but there's really no point .......

I know, the sheer depth and width of the unbridgeable divide between people in North America over this one kid is staggering.

I don't know about the US but Canada has been irrevocably altered. It's like our society is suffering a form of collective PTSD.

[madmax]

Why? Here we have some pos who killed an American soldier, admitted to it but is left with an avenue to deny it, he will sue the Canadian government and get millions of dollars. And best of all he will be virtually untouchable by Canadian Authorities.

You may be proven correct. But to SUCCESSFULLY sue a government would have to entail that the government has done something wrong or violated the law.

But you have to be the naive to believe that upon his release Intelligence services are going to ignore his movements.

Edited October 1, 2012 by madmax

[Deuce]

What kind of pressure could we put on the US? Sanctions? Threats of violence? He killed their soldier, it was their problem just because the problem was born in Canada does not mean we can force the US to hand him over.

I'm not a Foreign Affairs minister, with that being said, we could have done more than we did, especially considering Optional Protocol that both America and Canada had signed 6 months prior to his capture. Maybe we couldn't have secured his release but lets keep in mind the USA "pawned" him over to us eventually and the Canadian Govt dragged their feet as long as possible before sticking him in Millhaven.

And even if he were handed over to Canada in 2003-2004 what would he receive as punishment? He would have been out shortly thereafter.

Rehabilitation programs, certified doctors and support groups potentially with other ex-child soldiers with whom he could connect with on a certain level.

1) He admitted to throwing the grenade.

2) The answer was to I believe Peter F, if all the others around Khadr were dead then it leads any person with a brain to come to the conclusion that the only pos alive threw the grenade.

But he wasn't the only "POS" alive as you so elegantly stated in point 2.

Any person with a brain can realize the numerous inconsistencies. Have you ever considered the possibility of friendly fire? The US Govt would never cover up an instance of friendly fire though... would they? *cough pat tillman*

It's irrelevant if he was the only survivor or not, what is relevant is if he was the only survivor in the area where the grenade came from.

If you bothered to read the links I posted you'd save me a lot of time from having to go back to them, reread and then copy and paste here for you but anyways,

"He heard moaning coming from the back of the compound. The dust rose up from the ground and began to clear, he then saw a man facing him lying on his right side," the report states.

"The man had an AK-47 on the ground beside him and the man was moving. OC-1 fired one round striking the man in the head and the movement ceased. Dust was again stirred by this rifle shot. When the dust rose, he saw a second man sitting up facing away from him leaning against the brush. This man, later identified as Khadr, was moving . . . OC-1 fired two rounds both of which struck Khadr in the back."

The report also states that OC-1 deduced that it was Khadr who threw the grenade due to his position, and because the other man was firing a rifle at the same time.

"Based on his extensive combat experience, OC-1 believed that Khadr and the man at the back of the alley with the AK rifle were the only two alive at the time of the assault. He felt that due to the grenade being thrown simultaneously to the directed rifle fire that the grenade was thrown by someone other than the man who was firing the rifle."

One is hitting a target knowing the enemy is there and killing innocent by accident, the other is a first come first die kind of deal.

Nobody is claiming that Al Qaeda is as militarily savvy as the US is, they have way less technology, funding and are just rudimentary in the way they do things. I don't buy for a second here that when the IED's are planted by AQ that they are aiming to hit native Afghans (unless they were associated with the US soldiers) - its just the cost of war.. No different than the US targeting insurgents but killing woman and children in drone strikes, they both have "good" intentions so to speak.

What exactly is it supposed to prove? He did not fall in to the category of a legal combatant, a category that ISAF members fall in to, his organizations actively sought to make themselves illegal combatants and then people complain.

If he was over 18 at the time I doubt you would see as much grief for his case. I just don't think that we should have wrote him off early into his stay at GBay as children/teens who commit crimes can be rehabilitated under the right cirumstances, unfortunately for all of us sitting with radical muslims in a military prison probably wasn't the "right circumstances".

[eyeball]

Omar will probably be still in the justice system for quite some time. If he gets released on parole, one can only imagine the conditions he will have and how long those conditions will last. I smell door knocks every night at 2,3,4,5 in the morning...

No doubt he'll have to worry about things that go click in the night. He'll need body guards for the same reason Salman Rushdie does.

[PIK]

The main reason he is back is pressure form obama. Obama is trying to close gitmo, since he signed the order to do so in 08, but is having problems. Next up will be the blind shiek, since a rumour has it the MBH is trying to get obama to release him back to eygpt. But that won't happen till after the election.

[madmax]

I know, the sheer depth and width of the unbridgeable divide between people in North America over this one kid is staggering.

I don't know about the US but Canada has been irrevocably altered. It's like our society is suffering a form of collective PTSD.

No what I see is the Far right and the Far Left polarizing the issue.

And Ironically leaving very very very few in the middle. I find myself with some interesting company. The handful of moderates on this issue ....

Which is why I like MLW...

And I find the same occurring the bill on Life Begins thread.

[bud]

Calling him a child soldier is a insult to the real childs soldiers of the world.

doesn't matter how much outrage you have, at the end, he was a child soldier.

Edited October 1, 2012 by bud

[Argus]

These folks always try to make it look like poor old Omar was forced to go on high adventure in Afghanistan with his al-Qaeda big-wig dad.

He wasn't?

[DogOnPorch]

He wasn't?

Well that's the line we're fed, n'est pas? Omar was 'indoctrinated' into being a 'child soldier'. There's no other line they can take if they're going to support him as supporting a murderous Islamic thug who killed a medic is certainly in poor taste.

[wyly]

But he wasn't the only "POS" alive as you so elegantly stated in point 2.

Any person with a brain can realize the numerous inconsistencies. Have you ever considered the possibility of friendly fire? The US Govt would never cover up an instance of friendly fire though... would they? *cough pat tillman*

inconsistencies is being generous...there multiple version of events and no one witnessed kadr throwing a grenade...if you look at the pictures in the following link it becomes even more apparent kadr was the victim of a political show trial, justice and truth was never part of the agenda...

the OC-1 claimed he shot kadr in the back crawling away...but the photo of a near death kadr clearly show him buried under debris from the air attack... firefight

nowhere in the western world would these accusations have held up in a legitimate court...

[kraychik]

True, you don't.

There was no jury, no trial.

IF he had gone to trial, 40 years was the possible sentence.

Instead of risking that, Omar plead guilty for a plea bargain deal of 8 years and return to Canada after 1 year.

He was brought before a military commission, and there was a jury. The jury recommended that Khadr receive a forty year sentence. Two seconds with Google searching for keywords like "jury", and "Omar Khadr" might help you.

[kraychik]

Personal responsibility assumes an ability to make other choices. I don't see that possibility as having existed in that society at that time. What do you think he should have done? Claimed conscientious objector status?

Right, you don't recognise personal responsibility and seek to absolve people from accountability for their actions. I get that.

He didn't engage in terrorism. He engaged in combat with armed and uniformed soldiers. The legalities are involved and complex given that he was not a member of that state's armed forces, but with a sort of foreign, independent outfit which was, nevertheless, accepted by and supported by the government, and which supported the government in turn. It's not like he got on a plane or went into a pizza hut and threw a grenade, after all.

I think I'm gonna use that quote in my signature. It's great.

[eyeball]

No what I see is the Far right and the Far Left polarizing the issue.

And Ironically leaving very very very few in the middle. I find myself with some interesting company. The handful of moderates on this issue ....

Which is why I like MLW...

And I find the same occurring the bill on Life Begins thread.

Could you please describe what a moderate believes or what the middle ground looks like?

[Peter F]

That was no miracle. He was to be executed and he requested it because of his injuries. At the last moment orders were received to keep him alive for intelligence gathering

Unless you were referring to surviving the bombing in the first place?

No, I was referring to surviving the injuries he recieved. I had forgotten about the pleading to be finished off.

[Peter F]

Him being born here was a stragetic move on his father, so when the shit hits the fan, we have to protect and pay for his family.

Damn right we do.