Are sweat shops really that bad?

[Michael Hardner]

Really? Did a metaphoric bullet enter your brain?

Is this a reference to something ? Not sure. I adapted, is my point. The criticisms about the new patterns of business may be valid, but the question begs: what are you going to do ? Tariffs aren't the way, and I don't see any other practical suggestions. Of course, complaining IS satisfying in a way...

[betsy]

It's bad to exploit people....but when it comes to the question of, "is my family going to have something to eat today or not".....I don't know if working in a sweat shop is bad.

Some people do have to make that kind of choice.....something that's so hard to understand for some of us who'd never really experienced what real poverty is all about.

We can pressure the companies to step up but even if they do - is there any guarantee that the sweat shop wouldn't still be operating as a sweat shop? If corruption is the way of life in a culture, how can we change that in a short time?

So we pressure companies to pull out. What happens next?

In the meantime, what about those who are just wanting to put food on the table? Maybe it's easier for us since it's not the starving faces of our own children that look up at us asking to be fed.

Edited September 19, 2012 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

The "food on the table" meme is getting tired, though. We should think about replacing it with "spend time with my family". Nobody is working 70 hours a week to buy food.

[betsy]

The "food on the table" meme is getting tired, though. We should think about replacing it with "spend time with my family". Nobody is working 70 hours a week to buy food.

Perhaps we can all each "adopt" a family and directly send them monthly support? Numbers of families to adopt depends on our income?

Look, the "food on the table meme" may be getting old and stale - but it's still very much a reality! It doesn't go away

Who likes to work 70 hours to buy food? You think these people who work in a sweat shop will be there slaving 70 hours for food if they've got a choice?

Edited September 19, 2012 by betsy

[Michael Hardner]

Perhaps we can all each "adopt" a family and directly send them monthly support? Numbers of families to adopt depends on our income?

Charity doesn't provide enough support for people in need, compared with state support.

Look, the "food on the table meme" may be getting old and stale - but it's still very much a reality! It doesn't go away

It sort of goes away... as the reasons for working change as wealth and prosperity increase.

Who likes to work 70 hours to buy food? You think these people who work in a sweat shop will be there slaving 70 hours for food if they've got a choice?

They're not working 70 hours for food. They're saving money and sending it to poor relatives, from what I've read. They're leaving jobs where they did have to work 70 hours for food for factory jobs.

[Guest Manny]

Is this a reference to something ? Not sure. I adapted, is my point. The criticisms about the new patterns of business may be valid, but the question begs: what are you going to do ?

Indeed. It is in fact, a reference to George Orwell. See the end of 1984.

Only the most significant and final conclusion of the book... were you away that day in High School?

j/k

But I'm asking, is that you, John Wayne?

[carepov]

We can pressure the companies to step up but even if they do - is there any guarantee that the sweat shop wouldn't still be operating as a sweat shop? If corruption is the way of life in a culture, how can we change that in a short time?

So we pressure companies to pull out. What happens next?

We should not pressure companies to pull out of developing countries, this would worsen poverty.

We should encourage/pressure companies to implement standards similar to those of Disney:

http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/intl_labor_standards.html

[Michael Hardner]

Indeed. It is in fact, a reference to George Orwell. See the end of 1984.

Only the most significant and final conclusion of the book... were you away that day in High School?

j/k

But I'm asking, is that you, John Wayne?

I get it now... The Winston Smith comparison may better go to a G20 protester. I adapted. Resisting is admirable to me, complaining is not. How many reedy voices call into the CBC expressing their "concern" about such things ? Where has that got us ?

Live in reality - even if you do enjoy complaining. Do something.

[Guest Manny]

I get it now... The Winston Smith comparison may better go to a G20 protester. I adapted. Resisting is admirable to me, complaining is not. How many reedy voices call into the CBC expressing their "concern" about such things ? Where has that got us ?

Live in reality - even if you do enjoy complaining. Do something.

Third option, take the bullet in the brain, hey?

J/K Michael but that is what I thought you meant by "adapt".

[Canuckistani]

Not sure. I adapted, is my point. The criticisms about the new patterns of business may be valid, but the question begs: what are you going to do ? Tariffs aren't the way, and I don't see any other practical suggestions. Of course, complaining IS satisfying in a way...

Complaining at least means that the person hasn't just cowed to what you see as the inevitable. I'm sure at one time all sorts of labor exploitation was seen as just the natural order of things. We can use the tax system to reward companies that make Canadian products, penalize those that outsource. We need to be pushing Canadian companies to invest in productivity, something they are really poor at. We need to do a much better job of training our labor force. We can adapt as a country to improve our performance, instead of just asking Canadians to "adapt" and lower their expectations. We can use our tax system for a more equitable distribution of wealth, so the few winners of the new world order don't take more and more share of the profits and screw the many losers of it.

I've got to say you sound defensive about this. You're a forum facilitator, I would have thought you wouldn't just sling slurs about people you don't know.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Canuckistani

[Michael Hardner]

Third option, take the bullet in the brain, hey?

J/K Michael but that is what I thought you meant by "adapt".

No... retrain, relearn, reapply yourself and move on is what I had to do. I spent 5 years in the wilderness thanks to Globalization, so I take the topic personally.

Many who I hear talk about it haven't been affected at all, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth when they ostensibly 'oppose' globalization, but really do nothing but voice concerns about it. Meanwhile, they benefit directly from lower prices without having their means of living impacted. It just strikes me as a paradox, I guess.

[Michael Hardner]

Complaining at least means that the person hasn't just cowed to what you see as the inevitable. I'm sure at one time all sorts of labor exploitation was seen as just the natural order of things. We can use the tax system to reward companies that make Canadian products, penalize those that outsource. We need to be pushing Canadian companies to invest in productivity, something they are really poor at. We need to do a much better job of training our labor force. We can adapt as a country to improve our performance, instead of just asking Canadians to "adapt" and lower their expectations. We can use our tax system for a more equitable distribution of wealth, so the few winners of the new world order don't take more and more share of the profits and screw the many losers of it.

Who is this "we" you speak of ? "We" have voted with our votes AND our dollars by buying imported products, by offshoring entire industries (including mine) ...

This is what "we" have done. If you are complaining on this board, my question is what is happening with you in the real world ? Opposing such things in polite company such as MLW or CBC call-in shows doesn't seem to be working...

I've got to say you sound defensive about this. You're a forum facilitator, I would have thought you wouldn't just sling slurs about people you don't know.

What slurs ? I'm defensive because I have to put up with people "opposing" free trade, when they don't really do anything that translates into action - political or otherwise - when they haven't been negatively impacted, when they benefit from it economically... it's a lame response in all aspects IMO.

To add, breaking news from the Globe & Mail:

Just over 10 years ago, the NDP was expressing sympathy for the anti-globalization protests at World Trade Organization meetings in Seattle.

It is now going to urge Canada to try to reinvigorate the WTO’s global trade talks, which the Harper government has neglected, Mr. Davies said. “Nobody has picked up that mantle,” he said. “The New Democrats are.”

The NDP has opposed virtually every free-trade deal Canada has ever signed, but now calls for the acceleration of free-trade talks with Japan.

It also suggests prioritizing deals with India, Brazil and South Africa.

For the NDP, it’s a culture change. The party’s senior figures have decided it is a necessary strategic shift. The trade issue is not the big vote-getter in elections. But if the party is viewed as loonie left on international affairs, it will fail the basic character test voters use to judge fitness to govern.

[Guest Manny]

Many who I hear talk about it haven't been affected at all, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth when they ostensibly 'oppose' globalization, but really do nothing but voice concerns about it. Meanwhile, they benefit directly from lower prices without having their means of living impacted. It just strikes me as a paradox, I guess.

Really? Maybe you just needed a toothbrush. Look at it this way, at least they ARE talking about it. You're right most people don't have a clue what to do about it, how to take action and it's questionable how many would be willing to stick their necks out, as it were, to actually "do" something... whatever it is your intimating should be done...

For example people with families, young children are not likely to want to make an example of themselves, risking punishment for attending a protest. Or business executives rally for eliminating drug laws even though they use them.