Organic Food not better for you

[Boges]

Organic food is a giant scam.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1250668--organic-food-may-not-be-any-better-for-you-study-finds

Eating organic fruits and vegetables can lower exposure to pesticides, including for children — but the amount measured from conventionally grown produce was within safety limits, the researchers reported Monday.

Nor did the organic foods prove more nutritious.

“I was absolutely surprised,” said Dr. Dena Bravata, a senior research affiliate at Stanford and long-time internist who began the analysis because so many of her patients asked if they should switch.

“There are many reasons why someone might choose organic foods over conventional foods,” from environmental concerns to taste preferences, Bravata stressed. But when it comes to individual health, “there isn’t much difference.”

Her team did find a notable difference with antibiotic-resistant germs, a public health concern because they are harder to treat if they cause food poisoning.

Specialists long have said that organic or not, the chances of bacterial contamination of food are the same, and Monday’s analysis agreed. But when bacteria did lurk in chicken or pork, germs in the non-organic meats had a 33 per cent higher risk of being resistant to multiple antibiotics, the researchers reported Monday in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine.

I generally wash produce to get rid of pesticides. That being said, avoiding the potential for pesticides on your food wouldn't be a good enough reason to play the extraordinary premium put on the prices of organic food.

The antibiotic debate for meat is an interesting one. I'm not terribly concerned with that because aren't we all cooking our meat?

What I find with organic food is that the methods modern society has come up with the make getting food to the masses more affordable and more efficient is being renounced by a segment of society that thinks these methods are bad for our health. They're the people that can afford to pay $5/pound for carrots though.

I'm glad that there's a study like this as evidence that their organic crusade is just a form of snobbery.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Boges

[Black Dog]

Organic food is a giant scam.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1250668--organic-food-may-not-be-any-better-for-you-study-finds

I generally wash produce to get rid of pesticides. That being said, avoiding the potential for pesticides on your food wouldn't be a good enough reason to play the extraordinary premium put on the prices of organic food.

The antibiotic debate for meat is an interesting one. I'm not terribly concerned with that because aren't we all cooking our meat?

What I find with organic food is that the methods modern society has come up with the make getting food to the masses more affordable and more efficient is being renounced by a segment of society that thinks these methods are bad for our health. They're the people that can afford to pay $5/pound for carrots though.

I'm glad that there's a study like this as evidence that their organic crusade is just a form of snobbery.

I buy organic as often as I can, but it has nothing to do with health considerations. Organic produce tastes better. That's what I'm paying for. I'd also rather give my money to an actual farmer instead of an unscrupulous megacorporation like Monsanto. I'm also well aware that switching to organic blah blah blah isn't an option for everyone and certainly isn't the answer to the world's food issues (issues caused in no small part by the same megacorporations that have a lock on the majority of food production and distribution). That's my personal take. I don't see how that's snobbery.

[AngusThermopyle]

I buy organic as often as I can, but it has nothing to do with health considerations. Organic produce tastes better. That's what I'm paying for. I'd also rather give my money to an actual farmer instead of an unscrupulous megacorporation like Monsanto. I'm also well aware that switching to organic blah blah blah isn't an option for everyone and certainly isn't the answer to the world's food issues (issues caused in no small part by the same megacorporations that have a lock on the majority of food production and distribution). That's my personal take. I don't see how that's snobbery.

It's not too often I agree with you but in this case I do agree for the most. We find it does taste better but we grow our own for the most part. For some reason it tastes even better when you grow it yourself. Of course what we grow is'nt certified organic so I suppose the organic snobs would turn their collective noses up at it, however it is grown with all natural ammendments and zero chemicals so thats good enough for us.

[GostHacked]

There has been so much information that points to the downfalls of genetically modified foods. Monsantos creates a genetically modified seed that is 'Round Up Ready'. Meaning the seeds are immune to the pesticide. However that pesticide does not go away, it's absorbed into the ground.

http://www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/biotech/20questions/en/

Q5. What are the main issues of concern for human health?

While theoretical discussions have covered a broad range of aspects, the three main issues debated are tendencies to provoke allergic reaction (allergenicity), gene transfer and outcrossing.

Allergenicity. As a matter of principle, the transfer of genes from commonly allergenic foods is discouraged unless it can be demonstrated that the protein product of the transferred gene is not allergenic. While traditionally developed foods are not generally tested for allergenicity, protocols for tests for GM foods have been evaluated by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) and WHO. No allergic effects have been found relative to GM foods currently on the market.

Gene transfer. Gene transfer from GM foods to cells of the body or to bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract would cause concern if the transferred genetic material adversely affects human health. This would be particularly relevant if antibiotic resistance genes, used in creating GMOs, were to be transferred. Although the probability of transfer is low, the use of technology without antibiotic resistance genes has been encouraged by a recent FAO/WHO expert panel.

Outcrossing. The movement of genes from GM plants into conventional crops or related species in the wild (referred to as “outcrossing”), as well as the mixing of crops derived from conventional seeds with those grown using GM crops, may have an indirect effect on food safety and food security. This risk is real, as was shown when traces of a maize type which was only approved for feed use appeared in maize products for human consumption in the United States of America. Several countries have adopted strategies to reduce mixing, including a clear separation of the fields within which GM crops and conventional crops are grown.

Feasibility and methods for post-marketing monitoring of GM food products, for the continued surveillance of the safety of GM food products, are under discussion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked_n_420365.html

In a study released by the International Journal of Biological Sciences, analyzing the effects of genetically modified foods on mammalian health, researchers found that agricultural giant Monsanto's GM corn is linked to organ damage in rats.

According to the study, which was summarized by Rady Ananda at Food Freedom, "Three varieties of Monsanto's GM corn - Mon 863, insecticide-producing Mon 810, and Roundup® herbicide-absorbing NK 603 - were approved for consumption by US, European and several other national food safety authorities."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/potential-health-hazards-of-genetically-engineered-foods/

Today, consumers are kept in the dark and are part of an uncontrolled, unregulated mass human experiment the results of which are unknown. Yet, the risks are enormous, it will take years to learn them, and when we finally know it’ll be too late to reverse the damage if it’s proved conclusively that genetically engineered foods harm human health as growing numbers of independent experts believe. Once GM seeds are introduced to an area, the genie is out of the bottle for keeps. There is nothing known to science today to reverse the contamination already spread over two-thirds of arable US farmland and heading everywhere unless checked.

This is happening in spite of the risk because of what F. William Engdahl revealed in his powerfully important, well documented book titled “Seeds of Destruction: The Hidden Agenda of Genetic Manipulation.” It’s the diabolical story of how Washington and four Anglo-American agribusiness giants plan world domination by patenting animal and vegetable life forms to gain worldwide control of our food supply, make it all genetically engineered, and use it as a weapon to reward friends and punish enemies.

http://www.naturalnews.com/035734_GMOs_foods_dangers.html

NaturalNews) There is a conspiracy of selling out happening in America. Politics and personal interest it would seem determine government policies over and above health and safety issues. When President Obama appointed Michael Taylor in 2009 as senior adviser for the FDA, a fierce protest ensued from consumer groups and environmentalists. Why? Taylor used to be vice president for Monsanto, a multinational interested in marketing genetically modified (GM) food. It was during his term that GMO's were approved in the US without undergoing tests to determine if they were safe for human consumption.

You won't get the yield with organic crops as you do with GMO crops. However it's also been shown that organic foods do taste better and have more nutritional content. If your body is getting the right nutrients, you won't overeat.

Studies show about the harmful effects on the human body by Glucose-Fructose (HCGF) now simply labeled 'corn sugar' are suppressed. The majority of processed foods include GMO corn. Corn is not something a person should be eating on a daily basis and yet take a look at your food in your house and start reading the ingredients.

Also there is a push in the USA to have GMO labels on food products giving the consumer (because we are NOT treated as a customer anymore) a choice on what foods they eat. But entities like Monstantos have been doing what they can to prevent the GMO label from ever appearing on food packaging. It would hurt their bottom line greatly. If given the choice most people would go organic.

Equate it to why Canada does not use growth hormones in beef and dairy cattle anymore. They thought it was a good idea at the time, but the health affects on the animal as well as us when we consume these things are well known by the companies that put out these GMOs.

[GostHacked]

I generally wash produce to get rid of pesticides. That being said, avoiding the potential for pesticides on your food wouldn't be a good enough reason to play the extraordinary premium put on the prices of organic food.

You won't be able to get rid of all the pesticides. And some crops these days have the pesticide genetically modified in the food itself. Don't kid yourself, paying extra for real organic food is worth it. Your body sure as hell knows the difference between organic and GMO foods.

[Boges]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs

If you think you're overpriced organic food should taste better, it probably will taste better, in your head.

[GostHacked]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs

If you think you're overpriced organic food should taste better, it probably will taste better, in your head.

Naturally grown organic food does taste better because it contains less pesticides. Well that's my logical conclusion.

[Boges]

Naturally grown organic food does taste better because it contains less pesticides. Well that's my logical conclusion.

But you wash that stuff off. Much of the produce you pick up at the grocery store is being sprayed with water while sitting there.

What does pesticide taste like anyway?

This study indicates that even if there are pesticides on your food is fall within safety regulations.

[Black Dog]

If you think you're overpriced organic food should taste better, it probably will taste better, in your head.

The tomatoes I grow in my garden actually do taste better than the mealey ones trucked in from Mexico. Same goes for greens and strawberries. In short: I have never tasted supermarket produce or meat that is better tasting than what I get at the farmer's market. Is that in my head? Well, maybe. Do I give a shit? Not at all.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Black Dog

[Boges]

The tomatoes I grow in my garden actually do taste better than the mealey ones trucked in from Mexico. Same goes for greens and strawberries. In short: I have never tasted supermarket produce or meat that is better tasting than what I get at the farmer's market. Is that in my head? Well, maybe. Do I give a shit? Not at all.

I've been told Tomatoes are picked green and ripened on the way and that's why they don't nearly taste as well. You can buy vine-ripened tomatoes to know that they've been grown on the vine then shipped.

Sure locally grown produce would taste better because they aren't shipped across a continent regardless of the method they've been grown.

But some food can't be grown in Canada so they have to be shipped.

[Black Dog]

A counterpoint

[The_Squid]

Rinsing food in water does not "wash away the pesticides". There are still pesticides on what you eat. The health authorities consider them to be "safe levels", but I would prefer to be safe rather than sorry. I am not convinced that putting toxins in one's body can be "safe" long term. Some people will be more susceptible to these things as well.... not all livers are created equal.

Local markets are the best places for veggies and fruits.

I do not want hormones and steroids in my beef. I buy local from farms who do not do that.

[Boges]

Rinsing food in water does not "wash away the pesticides". There are still pesticides on what you eat. The health authorities consider them to be "safe levels", but I would prefer to be safe rather than sorry. I am not convinced that putting toxins in one's body can be "safe" long term. Some people will be more susceptible to these things as well.... not all livers are created equal.

Local markets are the best places for veggies and fruits.

I do not want hormones and steroids in my beef. I buy local from farms who do not do that.

So people should spend much more for food because of some nebulous fear of pesticides?

[The_Squid]

So people should spend much more for food because of some nebulous fear of pesticides?

No, do whatever you wish....

I posted why I prefer organic food and local meats. I eat a lot of fish that I catch and meat that I shoot. I think that it is a healthier form of food. But you don't need to take my word for it.... do whatever you wish. Enjoy the cheap Chinese veggies from Walmart.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I've been told Tomatoes are picked green and ripened on the way and that's why they don't nearly taste as well. You can buy vine-ripened tomatoes to know that they've been grown on the vine then shipped.

Sure locally grown produce would taste better because they aren't shipped across a continent regardless of the method they've been grown.

But some food can't be grown in Canada so they have to be shipped.

Non-organic tomatoes do taste bad.

http://news.discovery.com/earth/supermarket-tomatoe-gene-taste-120628.html

It's the mutations to make them perfectly homogenous in colour that do it. Organic or homegrown please

Edited September 4, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[msj]

I agree with black dog and the squid on this.

As for Boges, yet another thread for you to look down your nose at other people's consumption habits?

Really?

Don't you feel morally superior enough because you haven't "wasted" money on Apple products?

[GostHacked]

So people should spend much more for food because of some nebulous fear of pesticides?

You have to look at when and WHY organic became an option.

[blueblood]

Black dog is right that food grown in a garden and sold through a farmers market tastes best. There is no substitute for the freshness of the food obtained in that matter. I would venture to say food tastes the best with the dirt washed right off it.

However, I find it laughable when people trot out conspiracy theories by monsanto. There are other companies in the gmo biz and competition is intense. I don't grow roundup ready canola, not because it's from monsanto, but because the product is shit. It's yields suck, and is a bitch to harvest. I wonder what the Environmentalists have to say about nexera canola which makes arguably the healthiest cooking oil in existence, farmers get a premium for growing it, yet at the same time big business develops and markets it.

Pesticides are heavily diluted by water prior to being sprayed on a field and even then they have to be timed because a rain completely dilutes them to the point they don't work.

Like it or not gmo's are here to stay, there are 6 billion people and millions of fuel tanks

[Boges]

Like it or not gmo's are here to stay, there are 6 billion people and millions of fuel tanks

That's the interesting thing. People who, otherwise thing science is great, think making food that is more durable and yields higher results to feed the people on earth are the devil.

[GostHacked]

Black dog is right that food grown in a garden and sold through a farmers market tastes best. There is no substitute for the freshness of the food obtained in that matter. I would venture to say food tastes the best with the dirt washed right off it.

However, I find it laughable when people trot out conspiracy theories by monsanto.

They are not theories, Monsanto is one of the most abhorrent entities on this planet. The GMO seed is exactly the same they say, but yet different enough that it needs a patent. The amount of patents that Monsanto has is staggering. But whatever court granted them the ability to patent life needs to be thrown out the door.

There are other companies in the gmo biz and competition is intense.

Like ?? I guess Monsanto is just the big one.

I don't grow roundup ready canola, not because it's from monsanto, but because the product is shit. It's yields suck, and is a bitch to harvest. I wonder what the Environmentalists have to say about nexera canola which makes arguably the healthiest cooking oil in existence, farmers get a premium for growing it, yet at the same time big business develops and markets it.

Pesticides are heavily diluted by water prior to being sprayed on a field and even then they have to be timed because a rain completely dilutes them to the point they don't work.

And whatever gets washed away ends up on the water supply and ends up in our water. The water we bathe in, the water we wash our clothes in, the water we drink. It just does not 'go away'.

Like it or not gmo's are here to stay, there are 6 billion people and millions of fuel tanks

So instead of putting the food on the plate, it's put into gas tanks? Sure that seems logical in a world where there are claims of food shortages. Also that seem to skew the so called 'supply and demand' and price for corn because of the heavy subsidies it gets because of ethanol production.

I am not really against GMO foods, but for the most part GMO foods can be contributed to many health problems we face.

Take a read through 'The World According to Monsanto' and you get a very different picture of this company. Think Dow Chemical.

[blueblood]

They are not theories, Monsanto is one of the most abhorrent entities on this planet. The GMO seed is exactly the same they say, but yet different enough that it needs a patent. The amount of patents that Monsanto has is staggering. But whatever court granted them the ability to patent life needs to be thrown out the door.

Like ?? I guess Monsanto is just the big one.

And whatever gets washed away ends up on the water supply and ends up in our water. The water we bathe in, the water we wash our clothes in, the water we drink. It just does not 'go away'.

So instead of putting the food on the plate, it's put into gas tanks? Sure that seems logical in a world where there are claims of food shortages. Also that seem to skew the so called 'supply and demand' and price for corn because of the heavy subsidies it gets because of ethanol production.

I am not really against GMO foods, but for the most part GMO foods can be contributed to many health problems we face.

Take a read through 'The World According to Monsanto' and you get a very different picture of this company. Think Dow Chemical.

Other companies: BASF, dupont, bayer to name a few. I'd say those are big boys as well...

Monsanto doesn't own the whole genus species corn, it owns a particular line, and farmers are free to grow that line or a line through traditional means. Farmers grow the monsanto kind because they are satisfied with the product even though paying those fees sucks ass!

The chemicals are diluted to nothing in a rain, nothing happens when it rains, the potency is gone.

It has to go into gas tanks because if it didn't north America would be sitting on pikes of grain produced at less than cost and it would be hard on the economy. Not only that it helps keep a lid on gas prices which also helps the economy. The countries going through food shortages have incentive to start producing their own food again instead of waiting for the govt to distribute it.

[capricorn]

Organic food is a giant scam.

Feast of Fields

Sept. 16 noon to 4 p.m.

Canadian Agriculture Museum

Tickets $70 until Sept. 8, then $80 (with $35 tax receipt available) at www.feastoffields.ca Also at Rainbow Foods in Britannia, Pantry Plus Foods in Orléans, and Wild Oats Bakery Cafe in the Glebe

This is an annual fundraiser for Canadian Organic Growers, Ottawa chapter, limited to 350 tickets. Already about 150 are sold “and we’re in a big campaign now to sell the other half,” says Margaret Tourond-Townson, vice-chair of COG Ottawa.

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/09/04/forks-ready-ticket-sales-going-strong-for-two-not-to-miss-foodie-events-lumiere-and-feast-of-fields/

It beats me why organic growers would need to hold fundraisers. The annual fundraiser is held at the Canada Agricultural Museum in Ottawa, which is federal property. I wonder if the feds make the site available at no cost and whether Feast of Fields is a registered charity.

The fact they need to hold fundraisers may be an indication that shoppers in some areas haven't bought into the move to organic foods.

[GostHacked]

Other companies: BASF, dupont, bayer to name a few. I'd say those are big boys as well...

Monsanto doesn't own the whole genus species corn, it owns a particular line, and farmers are free to grow that line or a line through traditional means. Farmers grow the monsanto kind because they are satisfied with the product even though paying those fees sucks ass!

Montanso is getting huge push back world wide. Many EU countries won't let them step in the country. And the fact a farmer can be sued because his neighbor farmer was using GMO seeds and some were carried over by the wind into the adjacent farmer's fields.

And all those companies are chemical companies first. And not nice chemicals either.

The chemicals are diluted to nothing in a rain, nothing happens when it rains, the potency is gone.

Its not diluted to nothing. It still exists in the environment once used for crops. It can accumulate somewhere else. I thought being a farmer of some kind you'd understand the cyclical nature of farming.

It has to go into gas tanks because if it didn't north America would be sitting on pikes of grain produced at less than cost and it would be hard on the economy.

That is one messed up solution to a problem that never really existed in the first place. The subsidies are what allowed corn growers to keep growing surplus amounts of corn. Ethanol is also subsidized to an extent. How does subsidizing the corn industry help the economy if you got all this extra corn laying around?

Not only that you don't here so much about peak oil like before. And we are using oil on a much larger scale than 40 years ago, and yet there seems to be no shortage of oil.

Not only that it helps keep a lid on gas prices which also helps the economy.

I highly doubt that ethanol does anything to gas prices which makes me doubt about the impact on the economy. I see less gas stations offering ethanol compared to about 5 years ago.

The countries going through food shortages have incentive to start producing their own food again instead of waiting for the govt to distribute it.

Why not just ship them all this extra corn we got laying around that is to go in fuel tanks? I bet money could be made on that!!! Call me crazy.

[The_Squid]

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/09/04/forks-ready-ticket-sales-going-strong-for-two-not-to-miss-foodie-events-lumiere-and-feast-of-fields/

It beats me why organic growers would need to hold fundraisers. The annual fundraiser is held at the Canada Agricultural Museum in Ottawa, which is federal property. I wonder if the feds make the site available at no cost and whether Feast of Fields is a registered charity.

The fact they need to hold fundraisers may be an indication that shoppers in some areas haven't bought into the move to organic foods.

Possibly because they are trying to compete against multinational food corporations? Could that be why? nawwww....

Feast of Fields is a great event!! I have a friend in the food industry and several in the fishing industry that are involved and I try to go every year...

[blueblood]

Montanso is getting huge push back world wide. Many EU countries won't let them step in the country. And the fact a farmer can be sued because his neighbor farmer was using GMO seeds and some were carried over by the wind into the adjacent farmer's fields.

And all those companies are chemical companies first. And not nice chemicals either.

Its not diluted to nothing. It still exists in the environment once used for crops. It can accumulate somewhere else. I thought being a farmer of some kind you'd understand the cyclical nature of farming.

That is one messed up solution to a problem that never really existed in the first place. The subsidies are what allowed corn growers to keep growing surplus amounts of corn. Ethanol is also subsidized to an extent. How does subsidizing the corn industry help the economy if you got all this extra corn laying around?

Not only that you don't here so much about peak oil like before. And we are using oil on a much larger scale than 40 years ago, and yet there seems to be no shortage of oil.

I highly doubt that ethanol does anything to gas prices which makes me doubt about the impact on the economy. I see less gas stations offering ethanol compared to about 5 years ago.

Why not just ship them all this extra corn we got laying around that is to go in fuel tanks? I bet money could be made on that!!! Call me crazy.

How is the eu doing these days? Hey have zero credibility on pretty much anything. Except that farmer went to a fair court and there is no way the wind could blow almost a whole field worth of seeds. He got caught with his pants down.

Chemicals that have increased our living standards.

You'll have to ask the Americans and Europeans about subsidizing like crazy. It did nothing but make everyone poorer, the ag subsidies put farmers in third world out of business. The fact that oil was inching towards 100 dollars a barell and corn was 2 dollars and change per bushel is a reason why ethanol started. Now the ag sector is booming and providing jobs.

Those countries can't afford the corn lying around and have to wait for handouts from the USA and Europe, and we know what happened to their economies, however Americans can afford to light their corn on fire. My job is to make money, not be a charity.