Questions, Misconceptions, Objections,..etc,

[Moonlight Graham]

What do you mean "answer the challenge first?"

I already gave the challenge! The topic, THE BIBLE!

I've already given some points that refutes your cliched claim. The ball is now in your court.

It has always been....since that topic was posted!

I'm fairly certain I've commented in your Bible thread before, long ago.

[betsy]

I'm fairly certain I've commented in your Bible thread before, long ago.

Yeah. Lots of comments from lots of members in that topic.

And?

Edited September 3, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

Betsy:

Bye-bye, AW. Anyway, you're not really serious about discussion, remember?

Since I never said that, no, I don't remember. But Bye-bye. Adios. Sayonara. So long. Farewell. I bid you adieu.

Well, either you seem to suffer from severe memory lapses ....

Is that how you see it? As my trying to "reason" with betsy? I'm no more trying to reason with her than I am with schizophrenic people on the bus you; I just enjoy the outrage and hypocrisy and claims of superiority flying all around - and pointing it out at times. I enjoy it from all, not just the religious.

betsy:

So you don't really aim for discussion. Thanks for leting me know.

AW:

"Discussion" and "trying to reason with [you]" are two very different things. I know I have no more chance of "reasoning" with you than I do a rock. Your mind is made up. Clearly. What you believe is true and right for all, and all should be living by it. There is no point in trying to "reason" with you - and if you are trying to pretend that you are here for "discussion" rather than as a platform for your beliefs, sorry, but you haven't fooled me.

So what the heck are you doing here in this topic then??? Posting questions directly at me? Obviously seeking my answer.... (which you apparently already know will be, a "platform for my belief") which of course is clear since the title of this topic says it all!

.....clearly you don't even know what comes out from you. Mindless gibberish, by the looks of it!

....and, you can't even stand behind what you wrote 4 or 5 days ago. See how it is, trying to "reason" with a relativist - who can fib and contort and twist, without even batting an eyelash.

Mindless comments can be excused, but dishonesty is the killer. What's the point of trying to discuss with you?

Arrivederci. Auf weidersehen. So long now, luv. Keep going....it's okay....don't write....

<waving hankie with toothy big smile>

Edited September 3, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

Gong back to the law (Commandments)....here is another way to see it.

COMMANDS BECOME PROMISES

“And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” —Ezekiel 36:27

A man in England was converted to Christ while in prison. He was serving a sentence for stealing and upon release, one of the first things he wanted to do was visit a church. He didn’t know which one, so he simply found one. On the first Sunday of his relea

se, he sat in the pew, looked up to the front of the church and saw, written on the walls, the Ten Commandments. He told himself that was the last thing he wanted to see. He knew his failures and reading the Commandments would only condemn him. Nevertheless, he began reading and to his amazement, discovered them in an entirely new way.

When he’d read them before, they said things like, “You shall not steal!!” It was a command, but when he read them that morning it said, “You shall not steal” as a promise. Why? Because God has promised, “I will put my Spirit in you and I’ll move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.” This man discovered the very things that had once been strict commands imposed upon him in stone, had now become liberating promises imparted to him by the Spirit.

The heart of the Gospel is not primarily about getting people out of hell and into heaven, but about getting God out of heaven and into people. The law is powerless to change anyone. It can demand what is right, but not produce what is right. But, what the law cannot do, God did by sending His Son; first as our substitute to pay the penalty for our sin and satisfy the justice of God, and then to give the gift of His resurrected life to indwell us, in order that “the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us” (Romans 8.4).

The law says you shall not kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, covet and you don’t. Not because you’re more disciplined than you used to be, but because the Spirit of God lives in you, and the righteous requirements of the law are fully met in those who do not live according to the flesh (i.e., their own ability), but according to the Spirit. What used to be commands become promises and the response to a command is not in doing our best to implement it, but to simply say, “Thank you, God. This is your business in me by the Holy Spirit.”

http://www.facebook.com/livingtruthtv

Edited September 3, 2012 by betsy

[Guest American Woman]

Well, either you seem to suffer from severe memory lapses ....

Good Lord. The posts you quoted prove that I didn't say what you said I did. So I'll just direct your words back at you - "Mindless comments can be excused, but dishonesty is the killer."

I'll never try to "reason" with a born-again who can only see the world through their beliefs and thinks that the rest of the world should follow suit. "Reasoning" and "discussing" are two very different things - as I already said, and you quoted; but as it stands, you don't discuss - you preach.

I've posted to counteract some of your nonsense, but I have better things to do than encourage more of the same by giving your posts attention/responses. If others choose to do so, so be it; but it gives a platform for your mindset, and I won't be part of that.

Our societies are never going to be based on your beliefs, thank God. So au rivoir - and God bless. I have the feeling you need it .....

[betsy]

Good Lord. The posts you quoted prove that I didn't say what you said I did. So I'll just direct your words back at you - "Mindless comments can be excused, but dishonesty is the killer."

I'll never try to "reason" with a born-again who can only see the world through their beliefs and thinks that the rest of the world should follow suit. "Reasoning" and "discussing" are two very different things - as I already said, and you quoted; but as it stands, you don't discuss - you preach.

I've posted to counteract some of your nonsense, but I have better things to do than encourage more of the same by giving your posts attention/responses. If others choose to do so, so be it; but it gives a platform for your mindset, and I won't be part of that.

Our societies are never going to be based on your beliefs, thank God. So au rivoir - and God bless. I have the feeling you need it .....

bye-bye already.

[dre]

What would you expect God to say, "go ahead, worship and give thanks to somebody else?"

Of COURSE!

[Smallc]

You view it that way because you are placing yourself equal to God.

I've never pretended to be perfect and then proceeded to kill people.

He is God. The Creator. Who provided everything.

What would you expect God to say, "go ahead, worship and give thanks to somebody else?"

A perfect being should be able to easily create children that worship him freely, and that have actual evidence of his existence...especially an all powerful perfect being.

The wages of sin is death. Humans are sinners, and sinners die. Without the grace of God, you're dead.

We all die. We all 'sin'. Pretty poor job on his part, wouldn't you say?

He is God. He can do what He wants with His creation. He has plans. You may not agree with Him - as you may not agree with your boss at work so your option is to quit the job or put up with it - except there is no other option with God - unless He lets you have that option.

I have an option. I choose not believe in fairy tales.

We may rebel and scream "Not fair!" or call Him names, or even turn away from Him (like some ex-Christians did)....but at the end of the day, we know we are powerless and we're lost without Him.

I'm not lost at all...and if he's perfect, I shouldn't find what he's doing to be unfair..because it shouldn't be.

Of course you don't see the point because you don't believe He exists.

If you don't believe in God, you don't believe it.

I have no evidence that he exists. Without evidence, why should I? Why should you?

[betsy]

Betsy:

He is God. The Creator. Who provided everything.

What would you expect God to say, "go ahead, worship and give thanks to somebody else?"

Of COURSE!

Eh?

Well I guess you're among the rare ones - if there are any other at all - who can honestly say that after all you've done in your workplace - all the loyalty, hard works (plus beyond what's required from you)- you expect another colleague to take all the credits for it (including the pay raise and promotion)!

That's weird.

Edited September 4, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

I've never pretended to be perfect and then proceeded to kill people.

A perfect being should be able to easily create children that worship him freely, and that have actual evidence of his existence...especially an all powerful perfect being.

We all die. We all 'sin'. Pretty poor job on his part, wouldn't you say?

I have an option. I choose not believe in fairy tales.

I'm not lost at all...and if he's perfect, I shouldn't find what he's doing to be unfair..because it shouldn't be.

I have no evidence that he exists. Without evidence, why should I? Why should you?

As I've said, if you don't believe, you don't believe.

[Smallc]

As I've said, if you don't believe, you don't believe.

In other words, you don't have an answer.

[betsy]

In other words, you don't have an answer.

Answer to what? Why should I bother to answer to someone who don't meet the questions head-on? Why should the band play with someone who insists to play "off-key?"

Just take a look at this opener:

betsy, on 02 September 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

You view it that way because you are placing yourself equal to God.

I've never pretended to be perfect and then proceeded to kill people.

You don't even understand the concept of God or a god - let alone the implication my statement!

And like I said, you are equating yourself to the position of God, who created everything. You're thinking that He should think like you, and behave like you.

Betsy:

He is God. The Creator. Who provided everything.

What would you expect God to say, "go ahead, worship and give thanks to somebody else?"

A perfect being should be able to easily create children that worship him freely, and that have actual evidence of his existence...especially an all powerful perfect being.

According to your definition of what should be "perfect."

betsy:

The wages of sin is death. Humans are sinners, and sinners die. Without the grace of God, you're dead.

We all die. We all 'sin'. Pretty poor job on his part, wouldn't you say?

See, He can't win with you no matter what! On one hand you say, "A perfect being should be able to easily create children that worship him freely

Another dead giveaway you know nothing about the Bible at all!

He did actually. He gave Adam and Eve free will. What did they do??

Just so you know, when I spoke about, "the wages of sin is death" - that had to do with THAT sin! That's why we have death! Jesus' dying for us and getting Resurrected was a triumph over that death - that those who believe in Him becomes resurrected and gain eternal life!

betsy:

He is God. He can do what He wants with His creation. He has plans. You may not agree with Him - as you may not agree with your boss at work so your option is to quit the job or put up with it - except there is no other option with God - unless He lets you have that option.

I have an option. I choose not believe in fairy tales.

Oh darn. What do I say?

Ribbit-ribbit? Frog Prince?

betsy:

We may rebel and scream "Not fair!" or call Him names, or even turn away from Him (like some ex-Christians did)....but at the end of the day, we know we are powerless and we're lost without Him.

I'm not lost at all...

If you say so.....but I know for a fact that you're lost in this discussion. As evidenced by your answers.

...and if he's perfect, I shouldn't find what he's doing to be unfair..because it shouldn't be.

Ummm.....you're not finding it fair because maybe you have no idea what you're looking for? I mean, if you cannot even understand the concept - as proven by your childish answers - how could you even know where to begin?

betsy

Of course you don't see the point because you don't believe He exists.

If you don't believe in God, you don't believe it.

I have no evidence that he exists. Without evidence, why should I?

Well I'm just stating a fact: if you don't believe in God, you don't believe it.

Why should you?

Eh, you know I'm talking about faith. And I gave my reasons - my testimony. I'm not forcing you to agree with me. I find we're both just wasting our time trying to "discuss" when we hardly meet at all.

In other words, you don't have an answer.

Yup. You got me stumped.

Edited September 4, 2012 by betsy

[wyly]

You don't even understand the concept of God or a god - let alone the implication my statement!

And like I said, you are equating yourself to the position of God, who created everything. You're thinking that He should think like you, and behave like you.

while far from being my favourite forum poster based purely on the historical evidence I've no doubt smallc would do a far better job of being a benevolent god than the psychopathic sky demon you worship...

[betsy]

while far from being my favourite forum poster based purely on the historical evidence I've no doubt smallc would do a far better job of being a benevolent god than the psychopathic sky demon you worship...

personal opinion mean nada!

[GostHacked]

Really? Is jealousy often a trait of perfection? Why would a perfect God need to be jealous? Why would he create imperfect beings? I'm not the one out of my league.

This god character also seems to lack some self confidence wanting to tell everyone how to live and what to believe.

[cybercoma]

personal opinion mean nada!

Oh right! Because faith in the Bible is soooo much more than personal opinion. Give me a break.

[Smallc]

Can't respond to that post on iPhone. Remind me later.

[cybercoma]

Can't respond to that post on iPhone. Remind me later.

Is it later yet?

[wyly]

personal opinion mean nada!

the entire concept of religion is personal opinion, so it's jaja!

[GostHacked]

You view it that way because you are placing yourself equal to God.

Sure we can never know why god is an asshole sometimes because we are not gods ourselves. Our feeble little stupid minds just can't seem to wrap our heads around that 'fact'.

Laughable.

He is God. The Creator. Who provided everything.

What would you expect God to say, "go ahead, worship and give thanks to somebody else?"

A jealous god would only ask others to worship him and nothing else.

The wages of sin is death. Humans are sinners, and sinners die. Without the grace of God, you're dead.

With or without god I will eventually die. That's just the nature of our biology. But what of animals that don't have a concept of god? Are they sinners too? Or that just applies to humans?

He is God. He can do what He wants with His creation. He has plans. You may not agree with Him - as you may not agree with your boss at work so your option is to quit the job or put up with it - except there is no other option with God - unless He lets you have that option.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

We may rebel and scream "Not fair!" or call Him names, or even turn away from Him (like some ex-Christians did)....but at the end of the day, we know we are powerless and we're lost without Him.

Yeah some of these people need to be born again in order to be saved. I guess those people who got it right the first time are screwed.

Of course you don't see the point because you don't believe He exists.

If you don't believe in God, you don't believe it.

From what I have read here.

God will wipe out a village if they are not believers.

God supports murder and incest and rape but hates gay activities.

Does not sound like a loving god to me. Sounds quite hypocritical in fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

Let's go with 'You shall not murder.'

But yet it is ok for god to strike those down who don't follow him because he is a jealous god. Hypocritical. And if you met those types of people in real life, you might even call them assholes.

Or we can go with 'You shall not commit adultery.'

What of those stories of Lot?

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

There is a painting in the Sistine Chapel that depicts god reaching out to Adam. Which by god's standards is blasphemous.

Edited September 4, 2012 by GostHacked

[Smallc]

Is it later yet?

I'm home now, but I'm leaving...so no.

[GostHacked]

I'm home now, but I'm leaving...so no.

But just enough time to tell us you don't have time. Awesome.

[Smallc]

But just enough time to tell us you don't have time. Awesome.

Well...yeah.

[GostHacked]

Well...yeah.

And even make another response. This ain't twitter, this is a forum. You don't have to explain or tell anyone when you will respond. That's the beauty of a forum. No pressure!!

[Smallc]

And even make another response. This ain't twitter, this is a forum. You don't have to explain or tell anyone when you will respond. That's the beauty of a forum. No pressure!!

I was trying to respond to it on my phone, and got frustrated.....that's why I left the response that I did.