Questions, Misconceptions, Objections,..etc,

[Peter F]

Not quite. Your dealing with people who strongly believe in something just like the atheists strongly have their beliefs and have numbers. You have to put yourself in the shoes of a religious person to see where they're coming from (not necessarily believe what they believe of course).

For those religious people, their beliefs haven't hindered them one bit and what they believe in works for them. In their eyes, if it's working, why do they need to change it?

or as Martin Luther said: “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. ”

and that is where Bestsy is coming from. Reason is the destroyer of faith and is in fact the devils tool

[cybercoma]

Well, GENERAL REVELATION alone - along with what it evoke from you - already provide proof more than your evolution theory does, along with your mythical missing link!

My evolutionary theory? Huh? Species evolve. Full stop. I'm not sure why you think it's my theory. It's the only testable and repeatable way to explain the change in species over time. It's the only way to explain why we have different varieties of crops and domesticated dogs from great danes to chihuahuas.

General revelation is complete nonsense with no factual basis.

You know what God revealed to me? That you're Satan, perverting His Word on the internet. Prove me wrong.

This on-going saga is like a game started by Darwin (forgot the name of that game), where one tells a story, and the next one picks up on it and add a string to it, then another one picks up on it and add another string to it.....except that Darwin thinks the story he started with is more a link of baloney, instead of sausages! Is that the missing link???? Sausages?

Get back to me when you actually understand what Darwin's theory was about. You've shown time and again that you're completely lost about it. Let me give you a head start: it has nothing to do with God. Darwin was a Christian.

Talk about clout! Your atheist religion has more clout since you've got the secularists on your side!

Would it help stop making you look like an idiot when you say "atheist religion" if people started referring to themselves as "non-theists."

"Your religion is not having a religion" is nothing more than a lousy attempt to set up a false equivalency. Get a clue.

Edited September 5, 2012 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Yeah, it should be based on purely Godless mad-men laws.....with shifting standards.

Recyclable standards and laws.

One minute you are human, then suddenly you are declared not so human after all, and it's open season on you! With the blessings of those who consider it unforgiveable to say anything that may hurt someone's feelings! Mad-men laws.

Know what? Just got a new idea for a new topic. Coming out soon, not today. Too busy.

Thanks for that.

You mean like the way you dehumanize homosexuals by saying they're acting like beasts?

[cybercoma]

or as Martin Luther said: “Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. ”

and that is where Bestsy is coming from. Reason is the destroyer of faith and is in fact the devils tool

Ah yes. "Faith must trampe under foot all reason, sense, and understanding." To be a good Christian you must be irrational, nonsensical, and ignorant.

[kimmy]

Yeah, it should be based on purely Godless mad-men laws.....with shifting standards.

Recyclable standards and laws.

Thanks to those shifting standards, owning slaves isn't legal anymore.

-k

[cybercoma]

Thanks to those shifting standards, owning slaves isn't legal anymore.

-k

To be fair, a big influence on abolition was the Puritans.

[kimmy]

To be fair, a big influence on abolition was the Puritans.

Were religious people key figures in abolishing slavery? Absolutely so.

But that isn't the point. The point is that our values shifted, and man-made laws were changed to reflect that.

-k

[cybercoma]

Yeah, but with the Puritans it directly related to their religious values. Progressivism (ie, the NDP) is also rooted in the Social Gospel, which is why it's ironic that the religious-types are Conservatives now.

[blueblood]

May I suggest you read the topic, The Bible? That was created partly for atheists who demand some "imperical evidences." Those evidences were given - supported by modern science.

It's a very long read though.

I've read parts of it, basically the just of it is it's a philosophical text that shows how people should carry themselves and treat each other, which is all fine and good as those parts are logical, make sense, and I think any rational person regardless of their beliefs should think is a fair way of treating people. I.e. Not killing each other, treating others with respect, working hard, etc.

The problem arises in what I call the fluff of it; which worked in ancient t times to explain the world around them and to provide incentive to get people to follow what was being taught. People are fighting over what incentive is right, which I think misses the whole point of the book altogether.

[Smallc]

I've read parts of it, basically the just of it is it's a philosophical text that shows how people should carry themselves and treat each other, which is all fine and good as those parts are logical, make sense, and I think any rational person regardless of their beliefs should think is a fair way of treating people.

Except when they don't.

[blueblood]

Except when they don't.

?????

[The_Squid]

Thanks to those shifting standards, owning slaves isn't legal anymore.

-k

Thanks to shifting standards, stoning your wife for adultery is frowned upon, and even illegal in most Provinces!

[Smallc]

?????

There are some pretty bad stories in there.

[blueblood]

There are some pretty bad stories in there.

Not saying there isn't, however it's not all bad, you can't say that suggesting it's a good idea to treat others with respect and to work hard is a bad thing?

[Smallc]

Not saying there isn't, however it's not all bad, you can't say that suggesting it's a good idea to treat others with respect and to work hard is a bad thing?

No, but, I can say stoning them to death is....or hating someone because of sexual orientation....or...etc, etc. The Bible is, overall, a very poor guide for moral character in the 21st century.

[The_Squid]

Not saying there isn't, however it's not all bad, you can't say that suggesting it's a good idea to treat others with respect and to work hard is a bad thing?

Not at all. What other books tell us the same thing? Humanist principles certainly do! There is no need for ANY faith to have a civil and just society. In fact, I would argue that religion has run counter to that.

[blueblood]

Not at all. What other books tell us the same thing? Humanist principles certainly do! There is no need for ANY faith to have a civil and just society. In fact, I would argue that religion has run counter to that.

So then what's the issue with somebody having faith? Does it matter if they believe in something you don't? It's not religion that's the issue, it's fools. I could argue that atheists have also run counter to a civil and just society with communist Russia and china during the great leap forward as examples. Those people in charge sure as heck weren't religious at all!

[blueblood]

No, but, I can say stoning them to death is....or hating someone because of sexual orientation....or...etc, etc. The Bible is, overall, a very poor guide for moral character in the 21st century.

You and I know that the bible contradicts itself. I wouldnt consider the parables of Jesus and the 10 commandments a poor guide for moral character. Some of the other stuff however...

[The_Squid]

So then what's the issue with somebody having faith? Does it matter if they believe in something you don't? It's not religion that's the issue, it's fools. I could argue that atheists have also run counter to a civil and just society with communist Russia and china during the great leap forward as examples. Those people in charge sure as heck weren't religious at all!

Humanists do not agree with state imposed atheism. No atheist that I have ever heard of would be for state imposed atheism. The fact that leaders of these states were atheists is not really the problem. It was the evil dogma (which atheism in itself is not... it is simply a lack of belief in the supernatural) and the violent way in which that dogma was imposed that was the problem.

I have no issue with someone having faith. And you won't hear a peep from me about religion when the following happens:

Just don't try and get me to have faith. Don't try and get my government to be run on your beliefs. Government shouldn't be making policy decisions based on the faith of its members. Don't force schools to teach your bullshit faith as science. Don't use your considerable clout as a church to kill millions of people in Africa by telling them condoms are evil and don't work anyway. Don't have your charity works as a way to get converts... it not really charity if it is all about conversion. Don't try and tell someone the earth is 6000 years old, and dinosaurs and humans coexisted, when clearly it is not the case (I'm talking to you Stockwell Duh).

Fundamentalism, like what Stockwell Day adheres to, makes one stupid. An otherwise intelligent person becomes stupid when they have faith that the earth is 6,000 years old.

[blueblood]

Humanists do not agree with state imposed atheism. No atheist that I have ever heard of would be for state imposed atheism. The fact that leaders of these states were atheists is not really the problem. It was the evil dogma (which atheism in itself is not... it is simply a lack of belief in the supernatural) and the violent way in which that dogma was imposed that was the problem.

I have no issue with someone having faith. And you won't hear a peep from me about religion when the following happens:

Just don't try and get me to have faith. Don't try and get my government to be run on your beliefs. Government shouldn't be making policy decisions based on the faith of its members. Don't force schools to teach your bullshit faith as science. Don't use your considerable clout as a church to kill millions of people in Africa by telling them condoms are evil and don't work anyway. Don't have your charity works as a way to get converts... it not really charity if it is all about conversion. Don't try and tell someone the earth is 6000 years old, and dinosaurs and humans coexisted, when clearly it is not the case (I'm talking to you Stockwell Duh).

Fundamentalism, like what Stockwell Day adheres to, makes one stupid. An otherwise intelligent person becomes stupid when they have faith that the earth is 6,000 years old.

It doesn't matter to me what one believes, IMO it's no ones business. My issue is when fools on both sides start throwing rocks at each other claiming each side is pushing it's agenda on the other and crying foul about it. That's the only bullshit I see.

Im not on any side, All I'm doing is playing the devils advocate...

Those religious people make up a large proportion of the country and have every right to be represented, they have as much right to use their clout as atheists with eir clout.

I wouldn't say stock well day was stupid. Even though he believed the earth was 6000 years old, he was a high ranking cabinet official who did his job competently and no atheists were thrown in jail.

[The_Squid]

Those religious people make up a large proportion of the country and have every right to be represented, they have as much right to use their clout as atheists with eir clout.

They have a right to impose their clout on others? What happens when there are more Muslims in this country? Would you be OK with Sharia law because they have a right to use their clout?

I wouldn't say stock well day was stupid. Even though he believed the earth was 6000 years old, he was a high ranking cabinet official who did his job competently and no atheists were thrown in jail.

Anyone that believes humans and dinosaurs coexisted is stupid.

[cybercoma]

Religion is incompatible with people peacefully existing with one another. They're all divisive and destructive to liberty and freedom.

[blueblood]

They have a right to impose their clout on others? What happens when there are more Muslims in this country? Would you be OK with Sharia law because they have a right to use their clout?

Anyone that believes humans and dinosaurs coexisted is stupid.

Isn't that what democracy is, a group with ideas being represented? That would take a considerable amount of extremist Muslims to do that, and other groups would use their clout to shut the border and promote secular education in schools to combat that. A bigger group with further clout got prayer out of the public school system than those who wanted it in.

That's your opinion of stock well day, however his record in cabinet suggests otherwise.

[blueblood]

Religion is incompatible with people peacefully existing with one another. They're all divisive and destructive to liberty and freedom.

So was the lack of religion in the USSR and tpchina during the great leap forward. " religion is poison!"

Curse that religious pope john Paul II. Helped bring down communism, bring freedom, and improve the lives of those in eastern Europe. That bastard!

[The_Squid]

Religion is incompatible with people peacefully existing with one another. They're all divisive and destructive to liberty and freedom.

So far it has been. Once it has been moved to its rightful place in churches and homes rather than in government, then we will see if its influence can be tempered.

But as long as God is telling people like GW Bush to make war, or the Taliban to blow people up, the world is going to have problems with religious people/groups going on killing sprees.