Wisconsin Shikh temple shooting

[Signals.Cpl]

according to bonam:

=

"sir, he gave me a menacingly glare"

"son, let us mark that evidence A"

yes, note this definition.

or as the report said, the incidents increased after 9/11. you think before 9/11, muslims didn't bother reporting fires in their mosques, beatings and work place discrimination? they just suddenly decided to play victim and start reporting after 9/11?

note the difference in population; there are over 220 million whites, 6 millions jews and 2.5 million muslims. also note that jews have several well organized and vocal rights organizations including ADL.

perhaps more recent data from the FBI, will stop your denial that anti-muslim hate crime has increased since before 9/11?

Anti-Muslim hate crimes soared by an astounding 50% last year, skyrocketing over 2009 levels in a year marked by the vicious rhetoric of Islam-bashing politicians and activists, especially over the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" in New York City.

link

1) Huffingtonpost does not equal the FBI as they can manipulate the data to fit their story.

2) If you look at the statistics directly from the FBI, you would note that the victims of hate crimes based on religion are predominately jews(71%) and anti-muslim(8.3%). Now if you compare the statistics to their total population in the US as you so kindly provided, the muslim population is about 41.6% of the Jewish population yet there were significantly less muslim victims than jewish victims. So the fact that 70% of all religion based hate crimes are against jews, and only 8% are against muslims seems to indicate what exactly?

you are also threatened by my criticism of israel's violations of human rights.

Yet you ignore that many of the groups in the region want to destroy Israel, where is the human rights there?

this is because you condone israel's violations of human rights.

I approve of their right to live, if the terrorists and thats what they truly are recognized Israel's right to exist, and made legitimate effort to end the violence I would support them, until then I will not willingly throw an entire nation under the bus just because they want to live.

there is no other reason why you'd engage in trying to defame me and spread misinformation.

Are you serious? Every post you make is geared towards one thing, and from where I stand that one thing is mass-murder.

this happens when you're unable to justify israel's actions, without justifying violations of human rights.

and you justify the actions of the people who would if given half a chance destroy an entire nation.

[bleeding heart]

To me, they hate everyone equally, if they hate you more than me but are willing to kill both of us, that does not make me feel any better. Also honestly does it even matter? He killed people, I don't see any reason to suggest he killed them due to mistaken identity, maybe they were the closest he could get. I don't think he cared who he hit, as long as they were non white and the "enemy".

You could be right, sure. And at bottom, yeah, it makes no difference, I suppose; he wanted to kill him some non-whites, and he did so.

[bleeding heart]

It doesn't help that our #1 cable news network, Fox News, has TV hosts unable to 'delineate specific differences'.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/08/fox-host-asks-of-antisemitism-at-sikh-temple-131222.html

FOX is not too helpful in most cases.

[Dissenter]

Or Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, Sweden, Norway, and every other country in the world. There is racism in the US, just like every country in the world.

Funny how the countries that first come to your mind are all predominantly white.... And, of course, the answer is to create a blended humanity to turn the majority into a minority ONLY in those countries, right?

Anti-racist is just code for anti-white.

[Michael Hardner]

Anti-racist is just code for anti-white.

I don't think you would have too many problems getting set up in Africa, or a lot of other countries.

Is there even a movement to keep whites out of anywhere ? When you're against racism, you will probably cite examples that are relevant, not theoretical cases.

[Guest American Woman]

To me, they hate everyone equally, if they hate you more than me but are willing to kill both of us, that does not make me feel any better. Also honestly does it even matter? He killed people, I don't see any reason to suggest he killed them due to mistaken identity, maybe they were the closest he could get. I don't think he cared who he hit, as long as they were non white and the "enemy".

I agree with you. The fact that sikhs aren't on Southern Poverty Law Center's radar most likely just means that there isn't an anti-Sikh sentiment in the U.S.; doesn't mean one individual, who apparently believes in white supremacy, can't have a problem with them. All of this speculation is indicative of a problem IMO, in that there are a lot of people making this about Muslims with nothing but their own mindset to go on. There is absolutely no evidence that the killer thought they were Muslims. It's not as if he saw a bearded man with a turban on walking down the street and mistook him for a Muslim and killed him - the temple was clearly identified as Sikh.

[Canuckistani]

I agree with you. The fact that sikhs aren't on Southern Poverty Law Center's radar most likely just means that there isn't an anti-Sikh sentiment in the U.S.; doesn't mean one individual, who apparently believes in white supremacy, can't have a problem with them. All of this speculation is indicative of a problem IMO, in that there are a lot of people making this about Muslims with nothing but their own mindset to go on. There is absolutely no evidence that the killer thought they were Muslims. It's not as if he saw a bearded man with a turban on walking down the street and mistook him for a Muslim and killed him - the temple was clearly identified as Sikh.

Many Americans don't understand the difference, especially in smaller centers. Look at the Sikh killings after 9/11 because people thought turban = Muslim.

While the "war on terror" that followed September 2001 badly affected Muslim families in the west, it is sadly less well-known that Sikhs have also faced significant harassment as a consequence. The Sikh Coalition of Washington said yesterday that Sikhs in the US have faced more than 700 such incidents since 9/11; authorities still do not officially collect data on religious hate crimes against them

.

But underpinning everything is a pouring forth of frustration, just short of anger, at what Sikhs in Oak Creek and other parts of the US say is the frequent assumption that because of their turbans and beards they are Muslims – with all the weight that carries since 9/11.

One Sikh leader said that is an assumption "with deadly consequences". Another said that the Oak Creek killings are the "collateral damage" of the al-Qaida attacks.

Jeji Shergill, 62, said that since 9/11 he has regularly been assumed to be Muslim and that routinely spills over into abuse. "They compare us to the Muslims and we're completely different," he said. "I own a gas station. I am working there. People, they call me Bin Laden. Then I explain to them: sorry, you are misunderstanding. You are mixing us up with the Muslims. You try to explain about the turban and the beard. They still call you Bin Laden."

[Guest American Woman]

Many Americans don't understand the difference, especially in smaller centers. Look at the Sikh killings after 9/11 because people thought turban = Muslim. .

Yes, let's "look at the Sikh killings after 9/1l because people thought turban = Muslim." There was one sikh killed after 9-11. I repeat. One. Now if you can provide proof that the killer mistook him for a Muslim, you have proof of one American - one person, not "people" - out of 312 million killing one Sikh out of mistaken identity.

But do tell - what is "many?" Again. While some people take great pains to point out that there aren't "many Muslims" who support terrorism, they have no qualms about speaking of a very small minority of people in the U.S. as "many Americans."

The attack on Sikhs in a US gurdwara is not a mistaken attack. Sikhs are not mistaken for Muslims, but seen as part of the community of outsiders, says Vijay Prashad.

link

According to what I've read, FBI spokesman Paul Bresson said: "You have a shooting that took place in a house of worship. This was not just a random thing. There's a feeling that this was somehow thought out and targeted."

If it was "thought out," I would think that the killer would have at least taken the time to find out if Sikhs were Muslims. Furthermore, he could have targeted the Islamic center in Milwaukee.

I don't understand why some are trying so hard to tie this to Islam.

Edited August 7, 2012 by American Woman

[waldo]

I don't understand why some are trying so hard to tie this to Islam.

until your post, as follows, there was not a single reference to Muslim/Islam in this thread

One white guy full of hate kills 6 Sikhs, and America is full of hate. One guy out of 312 million. But when 19 Muslims killed almost 2000 Americans, without one gun I might add, it wasn't a reflection on Islam. Oh, no. The Muslims who want to do away with us are just a small minority, and anyone who doesn't recognize that is full of hate. As one guy with a gun out of 312 million Americans is proof of a huge problem in the U.S.

[Guest American Woman]

until your post, as follows, there was not a single reference to Muslim/Islam in this thread

Try reading my post since you quoted it. It had nothing to do with tying this killing into Islam. If you can't understand that, I'm not surprised. With that, I am done with discussing this with you. I won't get dragged into your games, so find someone else to annoy.

[waldo]

1) Huffingtonpost does not equal the FBI as they can manipulate the data to fit their story.

the HP article is from a contributor to HP... from a director of the U.S. Southern Poverty Law Center. The article's inference from the stated FBI stats is sound and accurate... across the related period referenced there was a, as stated, 'Dramatic Spike in U.S. Anti-Muslim Hate Violence'. You simply chose to attempt to negate that increase in U.S. anti-Muslim hate violence by comparing it to violence perpetrated against 'others'.

Are you serious? Every post you make is geared towards one thing, and from where I stand that one thing is mass-murder

your posts, 2 separate posts, were the first in this thread to associate to the 'ethnoreligious group' you draw reference to.

[waldo]

Try reading my post since you quoted it. It had nothing to do with tying this killing into Islam. If you can't understand that, I'm not surprised. With that, I am done with discussing this with you. I won't get dragged into your games, so find someone else to annoy.

you were quoted directly, verbatim. Again, until your post, there was not a single reference to Muslim/Islam in this thread

[Canuckistani]

Yes, let's "look at the Sikh killings after 9/1l because people thought turban = Muslim." There was one sikh killed after 9-11. I repeat. One. Now if you can provide proof that the killer mistook him for a Muslim, you have proof of one American - one person, not "people" - out of 312 million killing one Sikh out of mistaken identity.

But do tell - what is "many?" Again. While some people take great pains to point out that there aren't "many Muslims" who support terrorism, they have no qualms about speaking of a very small minority of people in the U.S. as "many Americans."

The attack on Sikhs in a US gurdwara is not a mistaken attack. Sikhs are not mistaken for Muslims, but seen as part of the community of outsiders, says Vijay Prashad.

link

According to what I've read, FBI spokesman Paul Bresson said: "You have a shooting that took place in a house of worship. This was not just a random thing. There's a feeling that this was somehow thought out and targeted."

If it was "thought out," I would think that the killer would have at least taken the time to find out if Sikhs were Muslims. Furthermore, he could have targeted the Islamic center in Milwaukee.

I don't understand why some are trying so hard to tie this to Islam.

Look at the further quotes I gave - Sikhs themselves report being mistaken for Muslims. We don't know if this shooter was shooting them because he thought they were Muslims, or just because they were non-white. But, there certainly seems to be some confusion in America between Sikhs and Muslims.

-- September 15, 2001: Roque guns down Sodhi outside a Mesa gas station. Roque drives up to the station, fires five times and flees. He goes on to shoot at a Lebanese-American gas station clerk and fire into the home of an Afghan-American family later the same day. He is serving a life sentence.

-- December 2001: Two men beat store owner Surinder Singh 20 times with metal poles in Los Angeles while they utter, "We'll kill bin Laden today."

-- August 2006: Iqbal Singh is stabbed in the neck with a steak knife in San Jose, California, while he is standing in the carport of his house. The attacker later tells police he wanted to "kill a Taliban."

-- November 2010: Two passengers beat Harbhajan Singh, a Sikh cabdriver, in Sacramento, California, with one of them calling him "Osama bin Laden."

Edited August 7, 2012 by Canuckistani

[Guest American Woman]

Look at the further quotes I gave - Sikhs themselves report being mistaken for Muslims. We don't know if this shooter was shooting them because he thought they were Muslims, or just because they were non-white. But, there certainly seems to be some confusion in America between Sikhs and Muslims.

No, we don't know that. And let's look at the quotes you provided:

September 15, 2001: Roque guns down Sodhi outside a Mesa gas station. Roque drives up to the station, fires five times and flees. He goes on to shoot at a Lebanese-American gas station clerk and fire into the home of an Afghan-American family later the same day. He is serving a life sentence.

-- December 2001: Two men beat store owner Surinder Singh 20 times with metal poles in Los Angeles while they utter, "We'll kill bin Laden today."

-- August 2006: Iqbal Singh is stabbed in the neck with a steak knife in San Jose, California, while he is standing in the carport of his house. The attacker later tells police he wanted to "kill a Taliban."

-- November 2010: Two passengers beat Harbhajan Singh, a Sikh cabdriver, in Sacramento, California, with one of them calling him "Osama bin Laden."

The first one is the incident that I posted about. So that leaves three other incidents over the course of nine years; four incidents over nine years. They involved six attackers. Six. Out of 312 million Americans.

Try to keep it in perspective. Try to keep it real.

[bleeding heart]

I don't understand why some are trying so hard to tie this to Islam.

No one is "trying so hard" to do so, but merely speculating on what seems a distinct possibility. Even if we're wrong, it's not important.

Except to you, for...some reason, unstated.

Edited August 7, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Canuckistani]

No, we don't know that. And let's look at the quotes you provided:

September 15, 2001: Roque guns down Sodhi outside a Mesa gas station. Roque drives up to the station, fires five times and flees. He goes on to shoot at a Lebanese-American gas station clerk and fire into the home of an Afghan-American family later the same day. He is serving a life sentence.

-- December 2001: Two men beat store owner Surinder Singh 20 times with metal poles in Los Angeles while they utter, "We'll kill bin Laden today."

-- August 2006: Iqbal Singh is stabbed in the neck with a steak knife in San Jose, California, while he is standing in the carport of his house. The attacker later tells police he wanted to "kill a Taliban."

-- November 2010: Two passengers beat Harbhajan Singh, a Sikh cabdriver, in Sacramento, California, with one of them calling him "Osama bin Laden."

The first one is the incident that I posted about. So that leaves three other incidents over the course of nine years; four incidents over nine years. They involved six attackers. Six. Out of 312 million Americans.

Try to keep it in perspective. Try to keep it real.

I included the first one because the further information certainly indicates he was after Muslims. If you think these few excerpts indicate reality, you should rethink that.

If Americans can think that Al Qaeda was active in Iraq before the invasion, and that invading Iraq would strike a blow against them (instead of making them stronger), then they're certainly capable of thinking anybody wearing a turban is Muslim or close enough.

[Topaz]

Don't be surprised if more killings happen UNTIL the majority of the population wants guns control. Question, is HOW many more?

[Canuckistani]

Don't be surprised if more killings happen UNTIL the majority of the population wants guns control. Question, is HOW many more?

There'll still be killings, maybe a few less. We've had our share here, as has Europe. I'm for stricter gun control, just don't think it will be a panacea.

[bleeding heart]

There'll still be killings, maybe a few less. We've had our share here, as has Europe. I'm for stricter gun control, just don't think it will be a panacea.

I'm not even sure it'd be slightly useful, to be honest.

(But what's wrong with me in even posting about it? I am so bloody sick of the gun control debate, not least because the people I'm most inclined to agree with can't keep whining and paranoia out of any discussion on the matter.....)

[socialist]

Governments need to forcibly confiscate guns from all citizens. i hope obama gets that done next term. enough of the hatred and violence already. america is full of gun nuts and there seems to be more and more shootings there. how stupid do people have to be?

[guyser]

Governments need to forcibly confiscate guns from all citizens. i hope obama gets that done next term. enough of the hatred and violence already. america is full of gun nuts and there seems to be more and more shootings there. how stupid do people have to be?

A teacher huh?

Never learned about the 2A huh?

Please be a gym teacher when you are hired in 5 years.

[msj]

Please be a gym teacher when you are hired in 5 years.

Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym. -- Woody Allen.

[socialist]

A teacher huh?

Never learned about the 2A huh?

Please be a gym teacher when you are hired in 5 years.

ok you mr. tea party. throw the 2A cliche out there. you must enjoy the violence. thats sickening. the 2A is a violent relic of a disgusting era of intolerance and hatred.

Edited August 7, 2012 by socialist

[Guest American Woman]

I included the first one because the further information certainly indicates he was after Muslims. If you think these few excerpts indicate reality, you should rethink that.

Why? Because you think there's more? Then prove it. Show us what a huge problem it is in America, even as the people you speak of continue to choose to emigrate to the U.S. post 9-11.

But again, what you are doing would be like me posting about every act of terrorism I can find, attributing it to "Muslims," and then saying to you - if you think that's all there is, you have a problem.

Quite frankly, it was a Sikh organization based in Canada that was responsible for blowing up Air India flight 182, killing over 300 people. There has continued to be problems with violence from the Sikh community in Canada. So should we make the same generalizations about the Sikhs that you are making about Americans?

If Americans can think that Al Qaeda was active in Iraq before the invasion, and that invading Iraq would strike a blow against them (instead of making them stronger), then they're certainly capable of thinking anybody wearing a turban is Muslim or close enough.

So now you are attributing what you believe Americans are capable of thinking to Americans. Good to know where you are coming from. It's interesting, to say the least that all of this speculation and attributing what a small percentage of Americans have done to "Americans" is not only so readily acceptable, but it seems to be the desire of a certain segment. I'm glad to see this. It's a real learning experience. I used to think that Americans, the U.S., were a problem, but now I see the bigger problem is with others. It's good to know, and you just reinforce it.

[Signals.Cpl]

ok you mr. tea party. throw the 2A cliche out there. you must enjoy the violence. thats sickening. the 2A is a violent relic of a disgusting era of intolerance and hatred.

Troll