Colorado Shooting during the Dark Knight Rises

[Guest American Woman]

Because well over 90% are dead

And you believe that they didn't die off in Canada??

FYI, Canadian Natives have the highest suicide rate of any identifiable population group in the world. link

Sounds as if they're doing great. Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound? Native Americans were wiped out in the whole western hemisphere. If you are proud of how they were treated in Canada, how they are faring today, I can only shake my head in wonder.

[Guest American Woman]

Oh ya right.

The right to bear arms helped the African Americans establish the same rights given to whites.

I didn't say that, either. It helped keep some of them alive. The question, again, was did it help them or hurt them? The answer, as disappointing as it apparently is to some of you, is that it helped them.

[WWWTT]

If you are proud of how they were treated in Canada, how they are faring today, I can only shake my head in wonder.

Nope sorry never said I was proud of how the Canadian government has treated natives.

Just saying that guns did not help them.

Just ask the Mohawks at Oka.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

I didn't say that, either. It helped keep some of them alive. The question, again, was did it help them or hurt them? The answer, as disappointing as it apparently is to some of you, is that it helped them.

Oh ok then,I get your point.

I guess you see the only way someone can get hurt is if that someone else tries to physically harm you.

Clear as a bell!

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

Oh ok then,I get your point.

I guess you see the only way someone can get hurt is if that someone else tries to physically harm you.

Clear as a bell!

Where in God's name is that coming from??

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[WWWTT]

Where in God's name is that coming from??

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Wow four rolling eyes!Sounds like your really pissed off!

Well don't take it too serious.

WWWTT

[Moonlight Graham]

You have no faith in the institutions that you yourselves have built to govern yourselves and maintain your own laws. I am not so cynical or paranoid.

Do you not know the history of the United States? US institutions were designed with the very fact close in mind that the Founding Father had a deep mistrust of government because of the very circumstances that led to the American Revolution. There's no government system ever designed that's immune to tyranny.

You don't trust your government, police or military. I get it.

Only a fool would ever trust their government, police, or military.

Here's 2 cases of laughably illegal police assault of civilians in Canada. Some police don't even know the law, or choose not to follow it:

Edited July 30, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

[Wilber]

The question was "did the right to bear arms help or hurt [them]." The reality is it helped them. Rather than addressing that, I see you chose to LOL about something I didn't say - most likely because the reality goes against your anti-right to bear arms stance.

You are the one who didn't address it. The right to bear arms enabled the KKK to become a heavily armed organization (by our standards at least) If the African American's right to bear arms had anything to do with obtaining their rights it was in a direct response to the number of arms already in the hands of the KKK. That is the reality.

[Smallc]

Damn straight this isn’t the United States….we don’t even have property rights enshrined within the Charter

Good. The public works can't be stopped by one idiot with a gun....or a piece of land. It isn't like people don't get compensated for their lands when they get taken anyway. This is a bit of a straw man.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Smallc

[Wilber]

Do you not know the history of the United States? US institutions were designed with the very fact close in mind that the Founding Father had a deep mistrust of government because of the very circumstances that led to the American Revolution. There's no government system ever designed that's immune to tyranny.

Only a fool would ever trust their government, police, or military.

Well considering how many possible calamities out there that I should be preparing for and how far down that is on my list, I should probably go out, buy that gun and shoot myself right now.

[Smallc]

Well considering how many possible calamities out there that I should be preparing for and how far down that is on my list, I should probably go out, buy that gun and shoot myself right now.

[cybercoma]

Ultimately, the right to bear arms - along with the NRA - helped them.

Are you for real? The right to bear arms helped African Americans? The only thing that helped Africans before the abolition of slavery was fighting for the British, who then offered them their "freedom" in exchange.

[cybercoma]

Really? And how do you figure that?

As a side note, if I had a dollar for every time a Canadian said some version of "not as bad as the U.S. blah blah blah" I'd have quite the collection of loonies. Seems to me your country can do whatever it wants and as long as y'all can convince yourselves "it's not as bad as the U.S. ...." you're ok with it. Pathetic.

Seems you're ok with what America does, so long as you get to say another country does bad things too.

[cybercoma]

And you believe that they didn't die off in Canada??

FYI, Canadian Natives have the highest suicide rate of any identifiable population group in the world. link

Sounds as if they're doing great. Do you have any idea how ignorant you sound?

Not nearly as ignorant as you sound justifying the genocide of Natives that occurred in the US by insinuating that they're better off dead.

[Guest American Woman]

You are the one who didn't address it.

I most certainly did address the actual question. The right to bear arms helped the blacks fight off the KKK.

The right to bear arms enabled the KKK to become a heavily armed organization (by our standards at least) If the African American's right to bear arms had anything to do with obtaining their rights it was in a direct response to the number of arms already in the hands of the KKK. That is the reality.

The reality is that the KKK included law enforcement officers. You know, the ones you happily support being armed?

[Wilber]

I most certainly did address the actual question. The right to bear arms helped the blacks fight off the KKK.

More importantly, it made it possible for the KKK to persecute blacks. In this case the original consequence of the right to bear arms was to oppress people, not liberate them.

[Wilber]

The reality is that the KKK included law enforcement officers. You know, the ones you happily support being armed?

So what, are you saying that because there were police officers in the KKK that they were acting for the federal government or were federal officers? In some places you can pin a badge on any rube.

[Guest American Woman]

More importantly, it made it possible for the KKK to persecute blacks. In this case the original consequence of the right to bear arms was to oppress people, not liberate them.

Since you completely ignored it, I'll repeat it again: The reality is that the KKK included law enforcement officers. You know, the ones you happily support being armed?

The NRA - you know, the group that supports a citizen's right to bear arms - helped the blacks in fulfilling their right to bear arms - which helped them fight off the KKK - which included law enforcement officers. The ones you readily support being armed.

[Wilber]

Since you completely ignored it, I'll repeat it again: The reality is that the KKK included law enforcement officers. You know, the ones you happily support being armed?

The NRA - you know, the group that supports a citizen's right to bear arms - helped the blacks in fulfilling their right to bear arms - which helped them fight off the KKK - which included law enforcement officers. The ones you readily support being armed.

Because there were some law enforcement officers of undetermined species in the KKK, the KKK was a law enforcement agency. Got it.

[Guest American Woman]

So what, are you saying that because there were police officers in the KKK that they were acting for the federal government or were federal officers? In some places you can pin a badge on any rube.

Who says they had to be acting for the government? The fact that they weren't, but were still doing what they did, proves that the police don't always act in every citizen's best interest. According to you, police would never take up arms against citizens in countries such as ours - as you totally support their being armed.

Edited July 30, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

Because there were some law enforcement officers of undetermined species in the KKK, the KKK was a law enforcement agency. Got it.

I give up. You're either being purposely obtuse - or you can't grasp anything that's being said outside of your head.

Edited July 30, 2012 by American Woman

[Wilber]

Who says they had to be acting for the government? The fact that they weren't, but were still doing what they did, proves that the police don't always act in every citizen's best interest. According to you, police would never take up arms against citizens in countries such as ours - as you totally support their being armed.

You expect every police officer to act in every citizen's interest? And you call me naive. Not only is that impossible, it is not their job in the first place.

You would condemn the police as an institution by the illegal actions of a small proportion of its members but you would trust any Joe Blow with a gun to act in your best interests. Good luck with that.

[Wilber]

I give up. You're either being purposely obtuse - or you can't grasp anything that's being said outside of your head.

Oh I grasp what you are saying and it is a concept that just about every civilized country on the planet except yours has rejected.

[WWWTT]

Oh I grasp what you are saying and it is a concept that just about every civilized country on the planet except yours has rejected.

Ya Wilber I have given up debating with American Woman on this one.(I suggest you do the same)

I remember she did this one time in a thread about marihuana laws(or something like that) and it was an endless debate about some minor technicality that I can't remember now about possession and smoking it or something like that.

Once AW gets locked into a position she becomes stubborn and the arguments/debate become endless on one point.The debate will never evolve from then on.

WWWTT