Colorado Shooting during the Dark Knight Rises

[GostHacked]

I'm guessing that Shady thinks that Obama is trampling on the constitution. I'm guessing that you would agree.

He did sign the NDAA and extended and improved upon the PATRIOT Act, which both go against the constitution. So yes Obama is definitely trampling all over the Constitution. But don't take this Canadian's word for it.

[jbg]

I'm guessing that Shady thinks that Obama is trampling on the constitution. I'm guessing that you would agree.

He did sign the NDAA and extended and improved upon the PATRIOT Act, which both go against the constitution. So yes Obama is definitely trampling all over the Constitution. But don't take this Canadian's word for it.

I think all Presidents trample on the Constitution and it's up to the other branches to keep it to a reasonable level of hoofing.

[GostHacked]

I think all Presidents trample on the Constitution and it's up to the other branches to keep it to a reasonable level of hoofing.

Since items like the Patriot Act and the NDAA went though, that tells me the other branches of government are not doing what they can to make sure the constitution is not compromised.

The NDAA allows for indefinite detention of American citizens.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/01/02/president-obama-signed-the-national-defense-authorization-act-now-what/

The National Defense Authorization Act greatly expands the power and scope of the federal government to fight the War on Terror, including codifying into law the indefinite detention of terrorism suspects without trial. Under the new law the US military has the power to carry out domestic anti-terrorism operations on US soil.

and then ....

Worse, the NDAA authorizes the military to detain even US citizens under the broad new anti-terrorism provisions provided in the bill, once again without trial.

There is some controversy on this point, in part because the law as written is entirely too vague. But whether or not the law will be used to indefinitely detain US citizens domestically, it is written to allow the detention of US citizens abroad as well as foreigners without trial.

[cybercoma]

Oh, give me a break. I thought you had more on the ball than this. I point out that Canada is implicit in so many things too because all of the criticism is directed at the U.S. - while Canada gets a pass.

How blind are you? This entire forum is dedicated to criticizing the Canadian government. Thanks for coming out though.

Oh wait.... a gazillion times over!

[Wilber]

Your way is fine for you; I couldn't care less what you do in Canada. I think it's great that you're a loyal subject. But. Who knew it would be so difficult to argue the reality of our way, what works for us? That's what this thread is about - U.S. politics and how Americans feel. If you think everything in Canada is going to stay the same from now until the end of ime, good for you. I'm sure Pollyanna would agree.

By our way I meant both our countries. Your doom and gloom scenairos have shown no signs of coming to pass in either nor any other country with a long democratic traditions. They are a characteristic of countries that have little or no democratic tradition and are struggling with the transition. Your hypothesis assumes that countries don't evolve or mature. History indicates otherwise.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Wilber

[Guest American Woman]

By our way I meant both our countries. Your doom and gloom scenairos have shown no signs of coming to pass in either nor any other country with a long democratic traditions. They are a characteristic of countries that have little or no democratic tradition and are struggling with the transition. Your hypothesis assumes that countries don't evolve or mature. History indicates otherwise.

There is no "long tradition" when one takes into consideration the rest of eternity - and both of our countries are still basically brand new in terms of ancient civilizations. You keep trying to present my view as a "doom and gloom scenario" while it is no such thing. It's simply not having complete faith that nothing in our nations is going to change from now until eternity - along with some knowledge of history; history actually shows that things DO change. To not consider the possibility is naive at best.

As I said, do things the way you'd like to in Canada, but we'll do things the way we like here in the U.S., too. Personally, I don't have more faith in our government than I do our citizens. If you don't have enough faith in your citizens to grant them the right to bear arms and completely trust your government, then your gun laws work for you.

[jbg]

Since items like the Patriot Act and the NDAA went though, that tells me the other branches of government are not doing what they can to make sure the constitution is not compromised.

The NDAA allows for indefinite detention of American citizens.

I hope that in practice the Executive uses that power with almost unlimited restraint and the SCOTUS further construes that statute so narrowly that it almost can't be used. That has happened before in U.S. history.

[GostHacked]

I hope that in practice the Executive uses that power with almost unlimited restraint and the SCOTUS further construes that statute so narrowly that it almost can't be used. That has happened before in U.S. history.

And it is happening again. I guess history was not learned, so time for a repeat.

[GostHacked]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/teenager-kills-wounds-china-knife-attack-16910569#.UBpxqaMbw3g

BAN THE KNIVES !!!!!

A teenager killed eight people with a knife and wounded five more in northeast China after falling out with his girlfriend, state media said Thursday.

The teen killed two of her family members and six more people before fleeing, the state-run Legal Daily newspaper said. It reported he was caught but did not describe the circumstances.

The official Xinhua News Agency said the attack took place Wednesday night in Liaoning province. Media said the 17-year-old suspect is from Fushun city and his surname is Li. The attack happened in Yongling town.

But sure, comparing knives to guns is ridiculous right?

[eyeball]

Violent crimes are growing more common in China.

Despite having one of the harshest criminal justice systems on the planet?

It defy's all reason.

But sure, comparing knives to guns is ridiculous right?

As opposed to comparing North America to China you mean?

[GostHacked]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=74c_1343897860

[Guest American Woman]

Seems to me I remember reading on this forum not too long ago, in argument against the right to bear arms, that we never hear of multiple murders committed with a knife - Chinese teen kills nine in knife attack: reports

I read that a therapist had warned authorities about the Batman killer and I recall reading that there were warning signals regarding the Ft. Hood killer. Perhaps we should focus more on mental illness and take these warnings/signals more seriously. Seems to me that would be a good preventive measure.

Edited August 2, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest Manny]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/teenager-kills-wounds-china-knife-attack-16910569#.UBpxqaMbw3g

BAN THE KNIVES !!!!!

But sure, comparing knives to guns is ridiculous right?

With guns one can kill from much greater distances.

[Guest American Woman]

With guns one can kill from much greater distances.

Dead is dead, whether from a distance or up close and personal.

[BubberMiley]

Dead is dead, whether from a distance or up close and personal.

So then what do you need guns for? You can arm your well-regulated militia with knives.

[GostHacked]

So then what do you need guns for? You can arm your well-regulated militia with knives.

Ever try and get a knife through the militarized riot cop armour?

[GostHacked]

Dead is dead, whether from a distance or up close and personal.

Agreed.

12 dead 50 wounded in Aurora, 8 dead about 10 wounded in this knife attack. The guy with the knife has to work a lot harder to rack up them numbers. Should have been easier to take him down than Holmes. The damage is done.

[BubberMiley]

Ever try and get a knife through the militarized riot cop armour?

So then maybe you'll be brave enough to answer my question about how much firepower is necessary for a well-regulated militia. Are assault weapons too little, just right, or too much? How about tanks or chemical weapons?

Edited August 2, 2012 by BubberMiley

[Wilber]

There is no "long tradition" when one takes into consideration the rest of eternity - and both of our countries are still basically brand new in terms of ancient civilizations. You keep trying to present my view as a "doom and gloom scenario" while it is no such thing. It's simply not having complete faith that nothing in our nations is going to change from now until eternity - along with some knowledge of history; history actually shows that things DO change. To not consider the possibility is naive at best.

As I said, do things the way you'd like to in Canada, but we'll do things the way we like here in the U.S., too. Personally, I don't have more faith in our government than I do our citizens. If you don't have enough faith in your citizens to grant them the right to bear arms and completely trust your government, then your gun laws work for you.

Do you really believe your personal guns will be your salvation for "the rest of eternity"? Do you not think you are capable of ever moving past that or will you be stuck in the 18th century for the " rest of eternity"?

Edited August 2, 2012 by Wilber

[Wilber]

Double post

Edited August 2, 2012 by Wilber

[Guest American Woman]

Do you really believe your personal guns will be your salvation for "the rest of eternity"? Do you not think you are capable of ever moving past that or will you be stuck in the 18th century for the " rest of eternity"?

Speaking of 18th Century thinking, where do you think the loyal subject mindset comes from? Once again, even though I gave you an example from the 20th Century - which of course you blew off - you simply repeat yourself without addressing any of the points I brought up. It says a lot to me about where you are coming from. But fyi, I won't be around for the rest of eternity. It's my countrymen I'm thinking of should I make it through this world more fortunate than so many throughout history.

Edited August 2, 2012 by American Woman

[BubberMiley]

you simply repeat yourself without addressing any of the points I brought up. It says a lot to me about where you are coming from.

Speaking of which, if you believe people should have the right to keep arms in order to challenge a despotic government, do you believe the government should be allowed to limit the accumulation of those arms in any way?

[Wilber]

Speaking of 18th Century thinking, where do you think the loyal subject mindset comes from? Once again, even though I gave you an example from the 20th Century - which of course you blew off - you simply repeat yourself without addressing any of the points I brought up. It says a lot to me about where you are coming from. But fyi, I won't be around for the rest of eternity. It's my countrymen I'm thinking of should I make it through this world more fortunate than so many throughout history.

I have replied to each of your comments other than your continual referral to my being a loyal subject. If you really believe that our position on firearms is a result of our being "loyal subjects" it just illustrates how little you really know about us.

But if you really like, lets take your 20th Century example. Germany didn't become a unified country until 1871 and it did so as an Empire under the Hohenzollern Dynasty. Although it had an assembly, it was virtually an autocracy, first under Bismark and then under Wilhelm II himself. Up until then it had been a bunch of autocratic states, principalities and dukedoms. Prior to Hitler taking power in 1933 it had exactly 15 years under a democratic government as the Wiemar Republic which had to contend with losing WWI, the punitive Treaty of Versailles and the Great Depression, making it easy pickings for a strong leader like Hitler because that is what Germans had always been used to.

You cannot draw a parallel between the history of our two countries and Germany of 1933 or even Germany of 1933 and Germany of today. In your world they are all the same.

While I respect your country's right to do as it choses regarding firearms, that doesn't mean I agree with all of the excuses given to justify it. Sorry but I don't believe a grenade launcher in every closet does anything to enhance my security or way of life.

[Guest American Woman]

While I respect your country's right to do as it choses regarding firearms, that doesn't mean I agree with all of the excuses given to justify it. Sorry but I don't believe a grenade launcher in every closet does anything to enhance my security or way of life.

The fact that you think my country's beliefs are "excuses given to justify it" tell me that you don't respect it at all. As for my "continual referral" to your being a loyal subject, that has been in direct response to your continual referral to "doom and gloom" and "not having faith in [my] government" and "18th Century" bull crap, which is really all I've gotten from you. No need to be "sorry," however; as I said, I couldn't care less what Canada's gun laws are.

But fyi, in my world, which is the real world, our countries are both too young to establish that we have a "long history" of anything re: the history of civilization - and that, our history, seems to be your main point - even as Canada has only been an independent country for a mere speck of time - past and future. Less time than the U.S. But if that gives you a sense of security, albeit a false one, so be it.

You seem to conclude that because I look at history and see the reality, that I think our countries, ie: Germany, Canada, and the U.S." are "the same," but I do not. I don't think Canada and the U.S. are the same. You are the one who said you are speaking for both counties when you speak of our countries, so I've only followed your lead. So once again, your claim about what I believe, is off target.

Edited August 3, 2012 by American Woman

[Wilber]

You seem to conclude that because I look at history and see the reality, that I think our countries, ie: Germany, Canada, and the U.S." are "the same," but I do not. I don't think Canada and the U.S. are the same. You are the one who said you are speaking for both counties when you speak of our countries, so I've only followed your lead. So once again, your claim about what I believe, is off target.

If you don't see them as the same why do you raise Germany of 1933 as an example?

How long does it take a democracy to mature in your book? It's been over 200 years in your case and that excludes the evolution of the British system which gave rise to it. How long does it take. 400 years, 500, 600, a thousand. My guess is never if the NRA has its way.