"If You’ve Got A Business — You Didn’t Build That"

Shady · August 1, 2012

What do you mean obtuse?

Is backing up your assertion that difficult?

punked · August 1, 2012

Is backing up your assertion that difficult?

SHADY IT IS IN THIS THREAD. Go back and re read the entire thread if you forgot already.

Shady · August 1, 2012

SHADY IT IS IN THIS THREAD. Go back and re read the entire thread if you forgot already.

Whats the "fiasco?" Why am I or anyone suppose to care that Romney was CEO and then on a board of directors for a private business? What am I suppose to not give him a pass on? This is insanity.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Shady

punked · August 1, 2012

Whats the "fiasco?" Why am I or anyone suppose to care that Romney was CEO and then on a board of directors for a private business? What am I suppose to not give him a pass on? This is insanity.

Because he lied through his teeth about it Shady. I guess if I learned anything in this thread is Shady is for the guy who lies the most because that way he can pretend he didn't know he was going to be terrible.

Shady · August 1, 2012

Because he lied through his teeth about it Shady. I guess if I learned anything in this thread is Shady is for the guy who lies the most because that way he can pretend he didn't know he was going to be terrible.

That's not true. The Obama campaign asserted one thing, he asserted another. It was just a lame attempt to try and connect him with outsourcing claims.

msj · August 1, 2012

Because he lied through his teeth about it Shady. I guess if I learned anything in this thread is Shady is for the guy who lies the most because that way he can pretend he didn't know he was going to be terrible.

I don't think you've learned one goddamned thing.

Now, if you stopped feeding the troll then the rest of us could conclude which one of you two is the fool.

Edited August 1, 2012 by msj

punked · August 1, 2012

That's not true. The Obama campaign asserted one thing, he asserted another. It was just a lame attempt to try and connect him with outsourcing claims.

Nope you can re read the thread if you are unsure of what went on. msj is right though I am going to stop pointing out your lies after the first time.

Edited August 1, 2012 by punked

Shady · August 2, 2012

Nope you can re read the thread if you are unsure of what went on. msj is right though I am going to stop pointing out your lies after the first time.

Ok, I went back to the first page. You're right. It's not about Romney. It's about Obama stating that people that create businesses aren't really responsible. The goverment is. :rolleyes:

cybercoma · August 2, 2012

Ok, I went back to the first page. You're right. It's not about Romney. It's about Obama stating that people that create businesses aren't really responsible. The goverment is.

This is as much about Obama saying people that create businesses aren't really responsible, as it is about Romney enjoying it when he fires people. Stop trolling. The people on this forum are smarter than that and when you play these kinds of stupid games it makes you look at best foolish, but mostly just completely dishonest.

Shady · August 2, 2012

This is as much about Obama saying people that create businesses aren't really responsible, as it is about Romney enjoying it when he fires people. Stop trolling. The people on this forum are smarter than that and when you play these kinds of stupid games it makes you look at best foolish, but mostly just completely dishonest.

I disagree. What Obama said was really a rip off of what Elizabeth Warren said a few months earlier. Which was a rip off of what far-left professor George Lakoff originially said. That's not just a coinsidence. Also, the whole "they think they're so smart, and work so hard" is pretty absurd for him to say. Or is that just another reference to government? :rolleyes:

Come'on, give me a break. Keep spinning.

August1991 · August 2, 2012

This is as much about Obama saying people that create businesses aren't really responsible, as it is about Romney enjoying it when he fires people. Stop trolling.

Huh?

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, the word is that China is getting richer. And under Obama, America is getting poorer.

Cybercoma, that's the word on the street.

Edited August 2, 2012 by August1991

msj · August 2, 2012

Huh?

And America under Obama is getting poorer.

Huh?

US GDP per capita: 2008 $46,760 2009 $45,192 2010 $46,702 2011 $48,442

Obama became POTUS on January 20, 2009.

If one is going to only blame Presidents (which is rather stupid) then the onus falls on a certain W rather than the O.

Shady · August 3, 2012

Great piece by Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal. It's a must read!

From a friend watching the Olympics: "How about that Michael Phelps? But let's remember he didn't win all those medals, someone else did. After all, he and I swam in public pools, built by state employees using tax dollars. He got training from the USOC, and ate food grown by the Department of Agriculture. He should play fair and share his medals with people like me, who can barely keep my head above water, let alone swim."
WSJ

Her assertion is that those "you didn't build that" words are the most famous of Obama's presidency. And that Bill Clinton's role at the upcoming convention is to help minimize the damage, which he has the ability to do.

Shady · August 3, 2012

Obama became POTUS on January 20, 2009.

Yes he did. And the results?

Canadians richer than Americans
“On July 1, Canada Day, Canadians awoke to a startling, if pleasant, piece of news,” writes Canadian author Stephen Marche. “For the first time in recent history, the average Canadian is richer than the average American.”

Washington Post

Heckuva job Mr. President.

jefferiah · August 3, 2012

I do not agree with Obama's comments. Obviously, one's opinion on the matter depends on their own political views. For someone more to left, these comments are more acceptable obviously, and for those of use towards the right it is not.

While I realize that no man is an island, and maybe we all have people and circumstances to thank to some extent for our good fortune or bad fortune, I fail to see how government can reasonably discern to whom someone with any measure of success is indebted and to what degree. What is certain is that people with business already do pay taxes for those roads, just like you and I. And just like you and I, they got to use them, and if they made more money than I have using the same roads I am also free to use, then they have obviously done a better job using those roads to their advantage than I have, at least as far as they apply to making money. Whether that makes them smarter than others is questionable, but it seems Obama is putting those words in their mouths.

Edited August 3, 2012 by jefferiah

msj · August 3, 2012

Read the entire quote again.

Where does Obama say that the government is 100% responsible?

Where does Obama say that the government is mostly responsible?

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

"So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.

Now stop putting words into Obama's mouth.

Edited August 3, 2012 by msj

jefferiah · August 3, 2012

Read the entire quote again.

Where does Obama say that the government is 100% responsible?

Where does Obama say that the government is mostly responsible?

Now stop putting words into Obama's mouth.

I am not sure if this is a response to me, but if that is the case, I would urge you to re-read my post, because nowhere did I claim that Obama said either of those things. And I did not slag Obama, or say he is worthless, just that I disagree. And, I suppose you could rightfully ask what do I disagree with here. I conceded that people are not islands. Is that all Obama is saying? If it is, then I perhaps I have no disagreement with him at all. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But I think that since Americans already do have a system whereby people (including those who are entrepreneurs) pay taxes toward public roads, public schools, and where people who make more money pay greater amounts, it would seem that America has already acknowledged that nothing can survive in vacuum, and to me that says that what Obama is saying is that people who built businesses owe more to the government for that. I don't know if he thinks government is 100 percent responsible, or mostly responsible. But I am guessing he feels that it ought to be given more credit than the status quo, or else why bring it up?

And also I think he did put words in the mouths of entrepreneurs somewhat. I mean, you can get semantical about it and point out that he only said "entrepreneurs who say such things", without specifying anyone in particular. But I think for a lot of people, it comes off a bit anti-business. Or at least less pro-business to the degree to which they ascribe. It's all a matter of opinion of course. I am not outraged or offended by it or anything. It is what it is.

Edited August 3, 2012 by jefferiah

msj · August 3, 2012

Encore, encore, read it again until you get it right!

You are reading way too much into it.

Once again, where does Obama say what you think he is saying?

Read. The. Entire. Quote.

jefferiah · August 3, 2012

Encore, encore, read it again until you get it right!

You are reading way too much into it.

Once again, where does Obama say what you think he is saying?

Read. The. Entire. Quote.

Well, I have read it and as a matter of personal opinion I do not like the tone of some of it. I myself am not a business person, and I am no financial genius, but I do think in a lot of cases (certainly not all, some people really are very fortunate) entrepreneurs have made a great deal more sacrifice, took greater risks, and worked harder than I have to get their dreams off the ground.

As a matter of personal taste, I would think it is wise for such a man to always acknowledge his circumstances no matter how favorable or not. To say you built some thing is conceited. But I believe that sort of humility is personal. And it is not necessarily my place to judge, because while I believe in humility, I also think it is best for someone else looking on that success to say that someone did not build that, that they did not work harder. In many cases, some people really do.

And who are these ones whose minds he has read that think they are smarter or worked harder? Are they the wealthy Americans who do not agree with Obama?

Edited August 3, 2012 by jefferiah

BubberMiley · August 3, 2012

I also think it is best for someone else looking on that success to say that someone did not build that, that they did not work harder. In many cases, some people really do.

I agree. How dare someone say that the people who actually built roads are the ones who actually built roads.

Shady · August 3, 2012

Encore, encore, read it again until you get it right!

You are reading way too much into it.

Once again, where does Obama say what you think he is saying?

Read. The. Entire. Quote.

I've read it several times. The most disturbing part is when he mocks people that "think they work hard, and are so smart" I've never heard a president talk that way before. Ever.

msj · August 3, 2012

Well, I have read it and as a matter of personal opinion I do not like the tone of some of it.

You can't tell the tone from reading it.

Perhaps you should actually watch it. Go to the 8 minute mark and keep watching. The comments themselves start around 33 minutes.

Of course, I would hate to take the time away from your Fox news viewing. :rolleyes:

I myself am not a business person, and I am no financial genius, but I do think in a lot of cases (certainly not all, some people really are very fortunate) entrepreneurs have made a great deal more sacrifice, took greater risks, and worked harder than I have to get their dreams off the ground.

I am a business person (albeit in Canada) and I think this is a load of crap. Sure I have worked hard and have taken some risks. I am very fortunate to be on the successful side of those risks.

But I know lots of people who have sacrificed in different ways, worked hard, taken risks that haven't worked out but still find a way to do what's best for themselves and their children.

How is admitting that a successful person has benefited from living in a civilized society an insult?

That's ridiculous.

In fact, I would bet that most successful people viewing the entire context of the quote would agree with Obama.

It's only the ones who are disingenuously partisan who disagree.

Many successful people recognize their own hard work and many recognize they had a lot of support.

Those views are not some kind of mutually exclusive zero sum game.

Edited August 3, 2012 by msj

BubberMiley · August 3, 2012

I've read it several times.

Then why did you deny that he was talking about roads and bridges? :lol:

Shady · August 3, 2012

Then why did you deny that he was talking about roads and bridges?

Because he isn't always talking about roads and bridges. You may want to read it again for yourself.

BubberMiley · August 3, 2012

Of course he isn't always talking about roads and bridges, but he was clearly talking about them when he said "you didn't build that." Of course, you and your ilk were too dishonest to include that portion in your quotation, and the video you posted edited it out. Then you tried to deny that he was talking about that at all, but walked that back in the face of overwhelming evidence. When Romney loses, I think the GOP might want to re-evaluate whether spending the whole campaign talking about misleading, out-of-context snippets of text is a good election strategy. :lol:

Edited August 3, 2012 by BubberMiley