"If You’ve Got A Business — You Didn’t Build That"

[August1991]

You may not have noticed, but I have taken a step back from politics and this forum, for the last several months. I don't watch the old political shows I used to watch and I find unplugging can give one a more level headed perspective than bickering with strangers on a daily basis.

It looks like you could use some of that.

Well said, Sharkman.

We have fun analyzing politics and in this thread, that means trying to guess how 100 million people will vote in November. When one gets involved in a thread debate among posters who take partisan positions (Team A vs. Team , it is easy to lose sight of the larger political story.

[bleeding heart]

The thing is, it's not actually a grammatical error that makes the argument against the back-pedal. It's the fact that no matter which way you slice it, and no matter how much of the speech you include, "If you've got a business, you didn't build roads and bridges." is a nonsensical sentence -- (not to mention one that he didn't say).

Yes, it is a nonsensical sentence, which is why we know the meaning depends--crucially depends--on the preceding sentence, and the context surrounding that bit.

This is not difficult. For anyone who klnows anything at all about grammar--say, 7th grade level--it is plain as day.

And yes, it is a (slight) grammatical error. By definition. That's not even disputable. But it's a trivial error, given that it's spoken, and that the meaning is plain.

Well...to most people.

Edited August 15, 2012 by bleeding heart

[bleeding heart]

I'm bored with this topic, but the complete sentence, properly punctuated, is: "Somebody invested in roads and bridges—if you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that." If you want to natter on about a sentence and its meaning, at least write it correctly.

Christ's sake!

Thank you, Bubber.

That is exactly the meaning; and exactly the trivial error that has caused the confusion.

Correct that: the confusion is caused by people whose partisanship makes them unable to comprehend pretty elementary English.

[bleeding heart]

Well said, Sharkman.

We have fun analyzing politics and in this thread, that means trying to guess how 100 million people will vote in November. When one gets involved in a thread debate among posters who take partisan positions (Team A vs. Team , it is easy to lose sight of the larger political story.

So...your opinion is that Sharkman isn't taking a "partisan position"?

[cybercoma]

His comment wasn't out of context, it was in full context. Just like some of the other windows into his thinking. Like when he said he wants to "spread the weath around" or "the private sector is doing fine" or "I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart" or "it must be because I work harder" and then the king of the windows "if you've got a business, you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen."

And why does Obama think somebody else is responsible for making that happen? Because people pay taxes for the government to fund roads.

Just like when Obama said, "if we talk about the economy we lose." He said that. He believes it. It's in context. Except for the fact that he was criticizing McCain for saying that. Give it a rest, Shady. You're not this stupid and if you are, I feel really sorry for you because I don't know how you would tie your shoes in the morning.

[cybercoma]

I came across this video of Mitt Romney talking about the slave labour they used in China during his Bain days. Given all of the absurd criticism of Obama's words, Romney says something very interesting in this video: "95% of life is set up for you if you were born in this country."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-0imhVH4E0

Apparently when Obama says the same thing, he's socialist scum. When Romney says it, he's a champion of capitalism though.

[punked]

I came across this video of Mitt Romney talking about the slave labour they used in China during his Bain days. Given all of the absurd criticism of Obama's words, Romney says something very interesting in this video: "95% of life is set up for you if you were born in this country."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-0imhVH4E0

Apparently when Obama says the same thing, he's socialist scum. When Romney says it, he's a champion of capitalism though.

What I find interesting is 20 years ago if you said "I went to this communist country and that had terrible conditions for their workers and all around the factories there was fences and armed guards. I asked them about it and they said NO NO NO those guards are because so many people want to work for pennies we have to fight them off. People just come in here if we didn't have those." Romney and the Republican party would be the first to should propaganda and talk how crazy it is to believe something like that.

Now however because you can rich off of paying those people less and moving American jobs to that country well they just eat that up. Seriously the whole party has flip flopped. I bet Reagan is spinning in his grave.

[cybercoma]

What I find interesting is 20 years ago if you said "I went to this communist country and that had terrible conditions for their workers and all around the factories there was fences and armed guards. I asked them about it and they said NO NO NO those guards are because so many people want to work for pennies we have to fight them off. People just come in here if we didn't have those." Romney and the Republican party would be the first to should propaganda and talk how crazy it is to believe something like that.

Now however because you can rich off of paying those people less and moving American jobs to that country well they just eat that up. Seriously the whole party has flip flopped. I bet Reagan is spinning in his grave.

You're absolutely right.

What was frightening about the whole thing is that this is exactly what we did with indentured labour and coolies during the slave era and after it had "ended." They would be forced into unfair contracts and transported by armed guards to their workplaces. The claim was that the armed guards was for their protection as they travelled, but in practice they were to keep people from escaping. Anyone with even a basic knowledge about history can see that the situation is identical. No advanced civilization has ever been built without the blood and the sweat of slaves or de facto slaves and it's still going on today. We just don't want to admit to that reality, that we're still slave masters in the West.

[kimmy]

Apparently when Obama says the same thing, he's socialist scum. When Romney says it, he's a champion of capitalism though.

beautiful.

Meanwhile, the Republican National Convention is themed "We Built This!" It's taking place in the Tampa Bay Times Forum, which cost $139 million to build... of which the "owners" paid $53 million and the taxpayers paid $86 million. As the old joke goes... "What do you mean *we*, kimosabe?"

-k

[Shady]

beautiful.

Meanwhile, the Republican National Convention is themed "We Built This!" It's taking place in the Tampa Bay Times Forum, which cost $139 million to build... of which the "owners" paid $53 million and the taxpayers paid $86 million. As the old joke goes... "What do you mean *we*, kimosabe?"

-k

Another kimmy fail. Do you ever stop to look into things before posting? You've got more feet in your mouth than is humanly possible. These political conventions are partially publically funded BY LAW. D'oh!

[kimmy]

Another kimmy fail. Do you ever stop to look into things before posting? You've got more feet in your mouth than is humanly possible. These political conventions are partially publically funded BY LAW. D'oh!

The *arena*, dumb-ass. The Tampa Bay Ice Palace was 38% paid for by Rugged Individualist Entrepreneurs, and 62% paid for by taxpayers.

-k

[Shady]

The *arena*, dumb-ass. The Tampa Bay Ice Palace was 38% paid for by Rugged Individualist Entrepreneurs, and 62% paid for by taxpayers.

-k

So which other arena in Tampa should they be using instead?

[punked]

The *arena*, dumb-ass. The Tampa Bay Ice Palace was 38% paid for by Rugged Individualist Entrepreneurs, and 62% paid for by taxpayers.

-k

Yep the tax payers built that with a little help from the private sector. Welcome to the idea that business doesn't build roads but they use them, just as the RNC doesn't build arenas but they use them.

[punked]

So which other arena in Tampa should they be using instead?

None because there wouldn't be an arena if the tax payers didn't build it. The government built that business.

Edited August 26, 2012 by punked

[Shady]

Yep the tax payers built that with a little help from the private sector. Welcome to the idea that business doesn't build roads but they use them, just as the RNC doesn't build arenas but they use them.

I know! Republicans are even using publicly built roads to drive on!

[punked]

I know! Republicans are even using publicly built roads to drive on!

Which BTW they built, at least they did when Ike was in charge and undertook one of the biggest infrastructure projects in American History the highway system. Good thing through investment in infrastructure it made American completive enough to pay for itself. Welcome to economics 101 Shady where sometimes investment is a good thing and taxes are needed to grow a country.

[Shady]

Which BTW they built

Who built? You mean private construction companies using funds from the government that collected from private individuals and businesses? Yep.

That still doesn't soften Obama's stupid remark about if you've got a businesses, you didn't built that. Anyone with even half a brain knows that a successful business is due mostly to the people that start them, and run them.

[punked]

Who built? You mean private construction companies using funds from the government that collected from private individuals and businesses? Yep.

That still doesn't soften Obama's stupid remark about if you've got a businesses, you didn't built that. Anyone with even half a brain knows that a successful business is due mostly to the people that start them, and run them.

Shady the highways were build by BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE COMPANIES (Paul Ryans Family fortune was made by building highways for the government). Hate to burst your bubble there, but yep much like Obama's high speed rail the public funded something that transformed America. The taxes were all paid for by gas taxes and it was the largest public works ever undertaken I believe.

[Shady]

Shady the highways were build by BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE COMPANIES (Paul Ryans Family fortune was made by building highways for the government). Hate to burst your bubble there, but yep much like Obama's high speed rail the public funded something that transformed America. The taxes were all paid for by gas taxes and it was the largest public works ever undertaken I believe.

Great. It still doesn't mean that somebody that started a small business didn't build it. You know that, I know that, heck, even kimmy knows that.

[punked]

Great. It still doesn't mean that somebody that started a small business didn't build it. You know that, I know that, heck, even kimmy knows that.

Yes that is what it means the government planned it and built to the tune of about 5 TRILLION dollars in todays money.

[BubberMiley]

Another kimmy fail. Do you ever stop to look into things before posting?

Another Shady fail. Whether the convention is funded by law or the convention center is funded by extortion of the taxpayers, it's still funded by the taxpayers. Ergo "we all" built it.

Me too, because I filled out my first IRS tax return for 2011.

[Shady]

Yes that is what it means the government planned it and built to the tune of about 5 TRILLION dollars in todays money.

They planned and built somebody's business?

[punked]

They planned and built somebody's business?

They planned and built the highways Shady with public money for the public good.

[BubberMiley]

They planned and built somebody's business?

Did Romney just take over businesses to feed his overwhelming desire to fire people?

Edited August 26, 2012 by BubberMiley

[cybercoma]

beautiful.

Meanwhile, the Republican National Convention is themed "We Built This!" It's taking place in the Tampa Bay Times Forum, which cost $139 million to build... of which the "owners" paid $53 million and the taxpayers paid $86 million. As the old joke goes... "What do you mean *we*, kimosabe?"

-k

Besides the taxpayers everyone knows that the major cities in Florida were built up from the circulation of proceeds from the drug trade in the early 80s.

We built this, indeed. And sucked the rest up our noses.