"If You’ve Got A Business — You Didn’t Build That"

[Shady]

And when Mitt says he "likes firing people" or that "corporations are people" or that he "can't releases his tax returns because there is stuff in their that Dems will use against him". What does that say about him? See I can take quotes out of context that make Mittens seem like a terrible person for president as well. Then again the thing about Mitt and unlike Obama is everything he says is a lie and you wont know what you are going to get until he is in office. You may have a point because Obama doesn't lie every second of every day.

Calling him Mittens is against forum rules. Anyways, you can infer whatever you want from what Mitt Romney says and does. But that doesn't change the facts about Obama.

[punked]

Calling him Mittens is against forum rules. Anyways, you can infer whatever you want from what Mitt Romney says and does. But that doesn't change the facts about Obama.

So what you are saying is that Romney means all the things he says and those are just fine things to say about him?

"I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there."

"I should tell my story. I'm also unemployed."

"There were a couple of times I wondered whether I was going to get a pink slip"

"I get speaker's fees from time to time, but not very much." —Mitt Romney, who earned $374,000 in speaking fees in one year according to according to his personal financial disclosure

"I have some friends who are NASCAR team owners."

Also have you heard Romney had Illegal aliens working for him?

Maybe Obama isn't the solution to the problem but it is quite clear Romney by his own words doesn't even understand the problem in America. See I can pick and choose quotes to, most of them out of context and things I don't really believe that Romney means (mostly).

Edited July 24, 2012 by punked

[blueblood]

The US took on 150% debt to GDP during and after the depression, the UK it was closer to 200-230%. Why did they do it because there would have been no future for anyone in those countries if they didn't get out of the mess they were in. I'll tell you the future doesn't care what the debt to GDP is if they can't get a job or feed their family.

Spending 150% of GDP did nothing except put the country in debt. The thing that got the country out of depression was the market allocating resources which took a longer time to do because the government was printing money to spin it's tires and prop up prices. Look at 1920-21 for a similar scenario with a different method of combatting it.

[punked]

Spending 150% of GDP did nothing except put the country in debt. The thing that got the country out of depression was the market allocating resources which took a longer time to do because the government was printing money to spin it's tires and prop up prices. Look at 1920-21 for a similar scenario with a different method of combatting it.

You can try to rewrite history all you want but what got the depression out of its liquidity trap was spending period. That is how a liquidity trap works where no one is willing to spend until they see light and the only way for there to be light is to spend.

[Shady]

You can try to rewrite history all you want but what got the depression out of its liquidity trap was spending period. That is how a liquidity trap works where no one is willing to spend until they see light and the only way for there to be light is to spend.

No that's not what ended the great depression. You're the one trying to re-write history.

[punked]

No that's not what ended the great depression. You're the one trying to re-write history.

Yep. Depression, Depression, Austerity, Austerity, Spending, GDP growth, cut backs, Double Dip recession, Spending, Spending, Growth, Growth....Most prosperous times in American history.

Sure Shady Shady. I wouldn't trust your opinion in anything Historical you can't even get the events going on right now right. Why would I trust you on historical events that are pretty much agreed on by most people?

[blueblood]

You can try to rewrite history all you want but what got the depression out of its liquidity trap was spending period. That is how a liquidity trap works where no one is willing to spend until they see light and the only way for there to be light is to spend.

When prices fall to levels that people are willing to pay for starters. Do you know what demand destruction is. Trying to prop up prices by Debt spending was the height of foolishness and all that happened was a decade of hi unemployment and massive debt. But when the market reallocated those resources, FDR took the credit even though his policies prolonged the depression instead of ending it.

[blueblood]

You can try to rewrite history all you want but what got the depression out of its liquidity trap was spending period. That is how a liquidity trap works where no one is willing to spend until they see light and the only way for there to be light is to spend.

Oh really...

My link

How did Germany's money printing scheme in the 20s go, have to fight that liquidity trap!

[blueblood]

Yep. Depression, Depression, Austerity, Austerity, Spending, GDP growth, cut backs, Double Dip recession, Spending, Spending, Growth, Growth....Most prosperous times in American history.

Sure Shady Shady. I wouldn't trust your opinion in anything Historical you can't even get the events going on right now right. Why would I trust you on historical events that are pretty much agreed on by most people?

Nothing nothing, growth growth. Most prosperous times in USA history

[punked]

When prices fall to levels that people are willing to pay for starters. Do you know what demand destruction is. Trying to prop up prices by Debt spending was the height of foolishness and all that happened was a decade of hi unemployment and massive debt. But when the market reallocated those resources, FDR took the credit even though his policies prolonged the depression instead of ending it.

Citation please I would love to read some opinion and counter opinion on what you are saying. I am willing to bet the evidence for the counter opinion out weighs your opinion but citation please.

[punked]

Oh really...

My link

How did Germany's money printing scheme in the 20s go, have to fight that liquidity trap!

You know that has nothing to do with anything. Germany printed money in the 20s because they were actually trying to devalue their currency to spite those they had to pay war debts back to. That has nothing to do with spending. They weren't trying to keep prices low or unemployment. They were trying to pay off their debts one day and the next devalue all they payed back. Here is the idea I own you 100 million in war debts. Which I think is unfair. So I pay you 1 million so now I owe you 99 million. However I just printed a billion dollars so that million is only worth 10,000. Thus I screw you for making me pay back debts I can't afford. THIS THIS right here proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

I recommend you read Lords of Finance: The Bankers Who Broke the World. Which is where most of the facts in your article comes from and goes through what the 4 central bankers did leading up to the great depression, why they did it, and how the depression ended. Maybe you will learn something because I see now you know very little what you are talking about. Great book to. The more you know.

You however are very wrong in your opinions that FDR prolonged the great depression. A lot of what caused the depression was out of the US reach. It was a perfect storm and this book explains that perfect storm.

Edited July 24, 2012 by punked

[bleeding heart]

Excellent channelling of Ayn Rand.

Just so. It's ridiculous; we are co-operative, social creatures....biologically. It's inherent to what humans are.

Why this plain fact actively offends some people, I can't say.

[August1991]

I know conservatives like you have a hard time understanding the idea of cooperation and mutually beneficial relationships, but try to get your head around them. It might help you understand other people's viewpoints a little bit better.

I consider myself a conservative and I understand perfectly that cooperation is better than competition.

The question is: how do we get 6 billion people to cooperate? (Hint: The government, as a method to foster cooperation, is generally the last ditch solution - only to be used when all other methods have failed.)

The problem with Obama's quote is that he seems to think, channeling his Mom, that to cooperate Americans need more federal government bureaucrats.

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, people are better off, the world's Gini coefficient is falling and all because more people are free to choose through markets with prices. Yet oblivious, like Obama, the usual suspects of Western socialists/Leftists rant on about capitalism and inequality.

Edited July 24, 2012 by August1991

[blueblood]

You know that has nothing to do with anything. Germany printed money in the 20s because they were actually trying to devalue their currency to spite those they had to pay war debts back to. That has nothing to do with spending. They weren't trying to keep prices low or unemployment. They were trying to pay off their debts one day and the next devalue all they payed back. Here is the idea I own you 100 million in war debts. Which I think is unfair. So I pay you 1 million so now I owe you 99 million. However I just printed a billion dollars so that million is only worth 10,000. Thus I screw you for making me pay back debts I can't afford. THIS THIS right here proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

I recommend you read Lords of Finance: The Bankers Who Broke the World. Which is where most of the facts in your article comes from and goes through what the 4 central bankers did leading up to the great depression, why they did it, and how the depression ended. Maybe you will learn something because I see now you know very little what you are talking about. Great book to. The more you know.

You however are very wrong in your opinions that FDR prolonged the great depression. A lot of what caused the depression was out of the US reach. It was a perfect storm and this book explains that perfect storm.

And I suggest you read meltdown: a free market look at why the stock market collapsed. The economic theory used in the book has won a Nobel prize in economics. Maybe you'll learn something as to why he government can't inflate it's way out of recessions.

As for Germany in the 20s, my point stands. They were in a bind and chose to try and inflate the money supply to get out of it. A fat lot of good that did them. They impoverished eir people and screwed themselves by inflating their way out of a mess.

As for FDR prolonging the great depression, I'll go with buddy who wrote the article in the wall street journal. Inflating prices didn't work.

[blueblood]

Just so. It's ridiculous; we are co-operative, social creatures....biologically. It's inherent to what humans are.

Why this plain fact actively offends some people, I can't say.

And the free market system allows cooperation to take place. You get to buy an iPad and al the benefits and enjoyment from owning it and apple and the Internet provider get money. They provide you with a product which improves your lot, and you provide apple and the Internet provider money which improves their lot.

[TimG]

we are co-operative, social creatures....biologically. It's inherent to what humans are.

Humans are also biologically competitive and tribal by nature. The human willingness to act altruistically is generally limited to those which are deemed to be part of the "tribe". This creates problems for governments when the "tribe" does not align with a territory managed by a government.

[guyser]

And the free market system allows cooperation to take place. You get to buy an iPad and al the benefits and enjoyment from owning it and apple and the Internet provider get money. They provide you with a product which improves your lot, and you provide apple and the Internet provider money which improves their lot.

Course the free market doesnt extend to the person making the ipad.

[blueblood]

Course the free market doesnt extend to the person making the ipad.

That person has a job whereas before he didn't.

This is a good read My link

India's high growth numbers in the last decade have masked just how far behind it really is. It may be the world's 11th biggest economy, but that has more to do with the number of people it packs in, not the relative wealth of its 1.2 billion inhabitants. Consider per capita incomes: Indians on average make $3,700 a year – half that of the average Ukranian, nearly a third that of the average Chinese or Brazilian, and less than a fourth that of the average Russian. Germans make 10 times as much.

So we have the developing worlds income rise, and not only that goods in those countries are priced at what the sweet spot in the population can afford.

So yes the free market did extend to the person making the iPad.

Here's another

My link

Edited July 24, 2012 by blueblood

[Michael Hardner]

The question is: how do we get 6 billion people to cooperate? (Hint: The government, as a method to foster cooperation, is generally the last ditch solution - only to be used when all other methods have failed.)

What is trade if not cooperation ?

[blueblood]

What is trade if not cooperation ?

Voluntary cooperation

[Michael Hardner]

Voluntary cooperation

If not cooperation, it's voluntary cooperation ?

All that glimmers is not gold - it can also be glimmery gold !

[BubberMiley]

I'm still confused why people are offended because Obama said that businesses didn't build the roads and bridges they need to transport their goods.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm still confused why people are offended because Obama said that businesses didn't build the roads and bridges they need to transport their goods.

Some people are offended because they see free enterprise as something more than economics: it's a value that is woven into the tapestry of American identity etc. etc. etc. Said people already think of Obama as a lefty ding-dong, so their bottom lips quiver when he says things like that.

For those of us here who don't drink the political kool aid in such volumes, it was just a statement. Some people may think it's a statement of fact so everything is hunky dory, but I think that's beside the point. He's a politician, not Encyclopedia Brown.

[Canuckistani]

Humans are also biologically competitive and tribal by nature. The human willingness to act altruistically is generally limited to those which are deemed to be part of the "tribe". This creates problems for governments when the "tribe" does not align with a territory managed by a government.

Absolutely. And thank God we're also competitive or we'd all be stuck in the mud. But the right doesn't acknowledge or validate our co-operative side, the left tries too hard to shut down the competitive. The trick for governments is to get the middle way right. In the US, at the moment, it seems to me they're way too far on the right, so an obvious statement like Obaman's is seen as commie cant.

[Shady]

Some people are offended because they see free enterprise as something more than economics: it's a value that is woven into the tapestry of American identity etc. etc. etc. Said people already think of Obama as a lefty ding-dong, so their bottom lips quiver when he says things like that.

For those of us here who don't drink the political kool aid in such volumes, it was just a statement. Some people may think it's a statement of fact so everything is hunky dory, but I think that's beside the point. He's a politician, not Encyclopedia Brown.

True. People are also offended of his diminishing of individual hard work and success.