NDP opines on Oda's quiting..So does Harper.

[PIK]

No. He hasn't. He's done a ton of damage to many different sectors, but I don't want to get into a debate about that here. This thread is about Oda and Harper's next move.

Harper is evil and ruined the country but you do not want to debate it. What has he done to piss you off.

[Topaz]

By her bio. she worked in the broadcasting field, TVO, CityTv and Global. I wonder if she got a offer from SunTv? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bev_Oda

[August1991]

Actually, let me back that up. If he is stupid enough to appoint her to anything, it will be such a banal, unseen position that only political junkies will know about it.

But what signal would that send to others in caucus, on staff? If you screw up, you'll still get a reward.

I think Harper has established his reputation as a guy who will defend his cabinet/caucus/staffers through thick and thin. More than most politicians, he's a team player. But loyalty is a two way street.

Stephen Harper is not a radical. He is a pragmatist, especially when it comes to holding power. He has quickly pulled 180s on things that seemed to undermine his position. He cares more about being in power and staying in power than anything else. He will hang onto the reigns by any means necessary. If this means playing the shell game with money and the way it's reported to EC, so be it. If this means lying to parliament about the costs of things, fine. If this means making empty apologies and taking advantage of Canadians' forgiving nature, great. But here's the most important thing. When Vic Toews brought forward legislation on surveillance and Harper realized that it would turn his base against him, he scrapped that legislation (even though they're trying to bring it back in under the radar). When Woodworth got on his horse preaching about abortion, Harper had his cabinet bury that legislation before it even saw the light of day. For all of his distasteful decisions, the man has his finger on the pulse of public opinion. He doesn't care about pleasing everyone. He only cares about not pissing off enough people that he will lose power.

Cybercoma, yours is a very important conclusion about politics, and politicians.

We should not try to elect "good" politicians. We should ensure that our system has the incentives in place to make "bad" politicians do good.

[cybercoma]

Oda quits

Fantino replaces Oda.

Valcourt replaces Fantino.

That's it for the cabinet shuffle according to the PMO. No link off hand. Take my word for it.

Edited July 4, 2012 by cybercoma

[PIK]

I understand she paid it back, but I am still waiting on the 40 million the libs stole to be paid back. I wonder if any lib candidates still owes money for thier loans that EC was alway giving them more time. If that was a con, the left would still be whinning, and EC would be investigating.

[cybercoma]

Elizabeth May raised a good point today. Why does Stephen Harper have a motorcade, in other words the largest most expensive security detail in Canada's history, driving him around Ottawa? His narcissism knows no bounds.

[Topaz]

I understand she paid it back, but I am still waiting on the 40 million the libs stole to be paid back. I wonder if any lib candidates still owes money for thier loans that EC was alway giving them more time. If that was a con, the left would still be whinning, and EC would be investigating.

Refresh my memory, which libs stole the money? Is it the ones that did go to jail for the adscam?

[Shady]

Elizabeth May raised a good point today. Why does Stephen Harper have a motorcade, in other words the largest most expensive security detail in Canada's history, driving him around Ottawa? His narcissism knows no bounds.

More Harper Derangment Syndrome. Now they're attacking his motorcade. Why does he have one? Perhaps because of security threats. Just a guess.

I'm sure May is privy to all of the RCMP and Canadian Security Intelligence Service threat assessments. Not.

[cybercoma]

I didn't ask why he has one. May pointed out that he has the most expensive one in the history of the country. Why does he have the most expensive security detail in our history for moving around Ottawa? Does he really need 5 vehicles?

[Shady]

I didn't ask why he has one. May pointed out that he has the most expensive one in the history of the country. Why does he have the most expensive security detail in our history for moving around Ottawa? Does he really need 5 vehicles?

Well, perhaps it may have to do with the terrorist plot from a couple of years ago, and other unknown security threats. I'm all for finding out why. Perhaps she should look into it then. But to compare the security detail of today to that of 20 or 30 or 80 years ago is ridiculous. Especially when the exact same detail from years ago would still cost a lot more in today's dollars.

[cybercoma]

Well, perhaps it may have to do with the terrorist plot from a couple of years ago, and other unknown security threats. I'm all for finding out why. Perhaps she should look into it then. But to compare the security detail of today to that of 20 or 30 or 80 years ago is ridiculous. Especially when the exact same detail from years ago would still cost a lot more in today's dollars.

Harper hasn't been Prime Minister for 20 or 30 or 80 years. Why would he need a bigger security detail than Chretien, who was attacked by a protester and was PM after 9/11? These are questions worth asking and for Conservatives that are bent on the government culling waste, they should be scratching their heads too.

[Guest Derek L]

Harper hasn't been Prime Minister for 20 or 30 or 80 years. Why would he need a bigger security detail than Chretien, who was attacked by a protester and was PM after 9/11? These are questions worth asking and for Conservatives that are bent on the government culling waste, they should be scratching their heads too.

Aren’t you kinda answering your own question?

[cybercoma]

Aren’t you kinda answering your own question?

Harper's security detail is bigger than Chretien's and also Paul Martin's, who followed him. So obviously 9/11 isn't the reason. Chretien was the one that choked the protester himself. And Martin's detail didn't need to be the size of Harper's following that incident. Edited July 4, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Derek L]

Harper's security detail is bigger than Chretien's and also Paul Martin's, who followed him. So obviously 9/11 isn't the reason. Chretien was the one that choked the protester himself. And Martin's detail didn't need to be the size of Harper's following that incident.

Yeah? Your point? Ultimately, “Harper” and the “Tories” don’t define the security requirements to safely transport the Prime Minster, that’s the sole purview of the RCMP protective detail……….I’m actually surprised that it’s only five vehicles, that obviously doesn’t include 6/8/10 Police Motorbikes to stop traffic at intersections…..Perhaps the RCMP has determined that there are more people that wish to do bad things to the PM then previous…….

[Topaz]

Elizabeth May raised a good point today. Why does Stephen Harper have a motorcade, in other words the largest most expensive security detail in Canada's history, driving him around Ottawa? His narcissism knows no bounds.

One report I saw in the past said it cost over 50 Million for security for him,but I think he has had death threats, and he did say there is a mental health issues on his fathers side, and he was on having panic attacks when he first came to PMO and taking meds for it.

[PIK]

Refresh my memory, which libs stole the money? Is it the ones that did go to jail for the adscam?

The ones that got away with it. The senior libs that are being protected.

[PIK]

One report I saw in the past said it cost over 50 Million for security for him,but I think he has had death threats, and he did say there is a mental health issues on his fathers side, and he was on having panic attacks when he first came to PMO and taking meds for it.

Using the mentally ill to go after harper now, you have no shame.

[westguy]

Harper hasn't been Prime Minister for 20 or 30 or 80 years. Why would he need a bigger security detail than Chretien, who was attacked by a protester and was PM after 9/11? These are questions worth asking and for Conservatives that are bent on the government culling waste, they should be scratching their heads too.

the political landscape and terrorist issues have changed

[madmax]

Elizabeth May raised a good point today. Why does Stephen Harper have a motorcade, in other words the largest most expensive security detail in Canada's history, driving him around Ottawa? His narcissism knows no bounds.

What does this have to do with the Price of OJ.

[PIK]

Harper's security detail is bigger than Chretien's and also Paul Martin's, who followed him. So obviously 9/11 isn't the reason. Chretien was the one that choked the protester himself. And Martin's detail didn't need to be the size of Harper's following that incident.

And chretiens wife saved him the other time, when his protection allowed some nut to sneak into his bedroom. It is mainly that the left have become so violent and militant in this country I don't blame him. I would bet the guy chretien strangled, was probably a NDP supporter, because he was definitly not a con.

[Guest Peeves]

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/02/16/17301906.html

Aside from the attacks on Cretien, the world has grown less safe, not more secure. Canada has had threats from al Qaeda over Afghanistan, and there have been terrorist plots here. Aside from that a countries leader has every right to expect protection and THAT is the mandate of the RCMP. I doubt that Harper has much say it how that protocol comes down.

OTTAWA - RCMP costs to keep Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his family safe and secure reached $47 million in just under two years - almost 70 times the price tag for protecting his entire cabinet and other VIPs.

Figures obtained by QMI Agency under Access to Information show salaries and overtime were the biggest cost at $35 million, with transportation, professional services, rentals and repairs also driving up the security tab. The RCMP is mandated to protect the prime minister at all times - 24 hours a day, 365 days a year at home or abroad. Stephen Harper's wife Laureen, their children Ben and Rachel and their official residences at 24 Sussex and Harrington Lake are also under constant Mountie security.

Records show the grand total for securing the Harper family from April 1, 2009-Jan. 31, 2011 was $46,928,459, while the tab for cabinet ministers and other VIPs such as judges was $681,334 for the same period.

Wesley Wark, professor at the University of Toronto's Munk Centre for International Studies, said Harper is more heavily, visibly secured than past prime ministers. Resources have been beefed up under his administration - driven by 911 and a legacy of high-profile breaches during the Jean Chretien period.

"Things were tightened up and money spent, and I think one of the determinations is to ensure that those kinds of embarrassments don't occur during the Harper period," Wark said.

Security is in place not only to protect against physical harm, but also to uphold the status and symbolism of the prime minister's office to avoid incidents such as gropes or pies in the face. Wark said Harper's frequent international travel also causes security costs to spike.

Cabinet ministers are entitled to RCMP protection in Canada and abroad on an as-needed basis, with measures based on intelligence-led threat assessments. Protection is also extended to family members based on risk evaluation.

The RCMP says it constantly reviews and monitors security protocol, but won't divulge details about specific threats or measures and resources in place, including the number of officers assigned to protect the PM.

"The RCMP can not provide a specific breakdown of the costs related to the protection of the Prime Minister and his family since this could compromise the current security measures put in place," said RCMP spokeswoman Const. Lucy Shorey. "The RCMP determines the level of protection to be provided to the Prime Minister and his family by evaluating the threat and determining the most appropriate measures to take."

RCMP guards follow the PM's every move and position in huts at the official residence around the clock.

While the Canadian figures may appear steep, they're a drop in the bucket compared to the U.S., which makes massive investments in specialized equipment, vehicles and guards to protect the President and his entourage. Security costs for Barack Obama's inauguration day alone were reportedly between $100-115 million.

[email protected]

[PIK]

Did chretien ever take a stand on anything that might have pissed people off?

[cybercoma]

the political landscape and terrorist issues have changed

Since 2006? Give me a break. And we're talking about him moving around Ottawa, not going on foreign visits or making public appearances.

Edited July 5, 2012 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Besides, Chretien was 2 Prime Ministers ago. Harper's security detail seems excessive. He's not even our Head of State. Murdering the Prime Minister changes absolutely nothing. The party just elects a new leader and things carry on, business as usual. That's security in itself.

Edited July 5, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Peeves]

Since 2006? Give me a break. And we're talking about him moving around Ottawa, not going on foreign visits or making public appearances.

Sure, take a break, long as you want.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service

Examples of the Terrorist Threat to Canada

Although Canada has not often been targeted specifically for a terrorist attack, it is vulnerable to terrorism for the following reasons:

Extremists from environmental and animal-rights groups are willing to use dangerous and violent tactics in the fight for their cause (for example, extremists have engaged in arson attacks, tree spiking and spraying of noxious substances in public places so as to forestall logging operations; animal-rights extremists have mailed pipe bombs and letters containing razor blades tainted with poisonous substances to scientists and taxidermists, and hunting outfitters have publicized threats of poisoned food supplies).

White supremacists have been aggressively opposing the immigration policies of the Canadian government and have used violent rhetoric against the Jewish community.

Graduates of terrorist training camps in countries such as Afghanistan reside in Canada or continue to seek access to Canada.

Canadians have been involved in planning terrorist attacks in other countries, either while residing in or outside Canada.

Pre-operational planning and reconnaissance have been undertaken in Canada on various targets in some of our major cities.

Osama bin Laden, the late leader of Al Qaeda, has mentioned Canada as a "designated target" for terrorist action because of Canada's role in Afghanistan following September 11, 2001.

These vulnerabilities highlight the need for vigilance and specific counter-

http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/prrts/trrrsm/xmpls-eng.asp

Also Harper is certainly making himself more a target than Cretien did with comments like the following.

Prime minister says Conservatives will bring back controversial anti-terrorism laws

CBC News

Posted: Sep 6, 2011 9:02 PM ET

SPECIAL REPORT: 9/11, a decade later

Acts of terror worldwide after 9/11

P.O.V.: Are Islamic radicals the biggest security threat to Canada?

Canada-U.S. border tightened in decade after 9/11

In an exclusive interview with CBC News, Prime Minister Stephen Harper says the biggest security threat to Canada a decade after 9/11 is Islamic terrorism.

In a wide-ranging interview with CBC chief correspondent Peter Mansbridge that will air in its entirety on The National Thursday night, Harper says Canada is safer than it was on Sept. 11, 2001, when al-Qaeda attacked the U.S., but that "the major threat is still Islamicism."

"There are other threats out there, but that is the one that I can tell you occupies the security apparatus most regularly in terms of actual terrorist threats," Harper said.

Harper cautioned that terrorist threats can "come out of the blue" from a different source, such as the recent Norway attacks, where a lone gunman who hated Muslims killed 77 people.

But Harper said terrorism by Islamic radicals is still the top threat, though a "diffuse" one.

I certainly wouldn't ever expect you to be in anyway supportive of Harper, but surely the OFFICE of the PM is worthy of respect, by most Canadians.

And of course it would include public exposure.