westguy Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yes. Anyone but them would be better. naame one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I dont know ANYONE outside of these forums that care much about this at all. Most Canadians arent sitting around worrying about Quebec. That's true. We hear gripes about Quebec like we hear gripes about Ottawa, and about employers, and the weather, and our own provinces, and about how crappy the Transformers movies are. Only the last one is a universal and objective truth, uncontroversial and inarguable...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) naame one I'll go you one better, westmanguy I'll name two. The NDP or the CPCML would be infinitely better than the wastes of skin in power currently. Edited July 6, 2012 by Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'll go you one better, westmanguy I'll name two. The NDP or the CPCML would be infinitely better than the wastes of skin in power currently. NDP? The country will be broke within 2 years should they EVER get elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 NDP? The country will be broke within 2 years should they EVER get elected. As if anyone could do worse than the party of crooks and cons which you support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think you've taken the Geritol at the wrong time,gramps At least I took it---- try some Genko or maybe tongue of Gecko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 As a separatist myself, this is a "gamble" I dream Canada would take. Oh-- you'd like to live in Lebanon2, North America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 i was in the protests. you were on your couch watching and reading one sided news reports. i was in the trenches. i know more about you than this. Yes Sig--- all that destruction & lawlessness was staged by the media to sell papers & gain viewers. It was all a farce designed to "dis" the rioters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 As if anyone could do worse than the party of crooks and cons which you support. The NDP is worse...much worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 NDP? The country will be broke within 2 years should they EVER get elected. As opposed to the party that slashes tax rates and increases spending? That sounds like a hell of a lot bigger problem than anything the NDP would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 The NDP is worse...much worse... You keep saying that, ignoring the evidence that NDP governments are the most fiscally responsible governments our country has had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 You keep saying that, ignoring the evidence that NDP governments are the most fiscally responsible governments our country has had. You keep saying that and there is some truth there. However, not in Ontario! And Ontario has a huge number of voters! It would be easier to re-elect Mulroney than for the NDP to gain majority support again in this province. Bob Rae's term just hurt too many people too badly! It is a waste of time trying to argue with people. It is not a "head" thing but a "gut" thing. A lot of voters are going to have to grow old and die off before the situation will change. Now, that being said, there has always been a small demographic in Ontario that would vote NDP even if Charles Manson was their leader! Perhaps with a small block from Ontario and increased support in other provinces the federal NDP could achieve power, as did Harper without support from Quebec. If this ever happened AND the federal NDP did not make any serious mistakes it would go a long way towards erasing Bob Rae's legacy. However, it will NOT be an easy thing to make happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 As opposed to the party that slashes tax rates and increases spending? That sounds like a hell of a lot bigger problem than anything the NDP would do. Yeah sure, I can see it now, increase taxes, exponentially increase spending, cater to Quebec's every whim cut the military worse than the Liberals did in the 90's. At the end of the day they will screw up the country in such a way that it will cost and arm and a leg to get us up to Greece's level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 You keep saying that, ignoring the evidence that NDP governments are the most fiscally responsible governments our country has had. Really? So before the NDP came along every provincial and federal government had no Idea how to manage a budget? My god how did we EVER survive without the NDP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 You keep saying that and there is some truth there. However, not in Ontario! And Ontario has a huge number of voters! It would be easier to re-elect Mulroney than for the NDP to gain majority support again in this province. Bob Rae's term just hurt too many people too badly! It is a waste of time trying to argue with people. It is not a "head" thing but a "gut" thing. A lot of voters are going to have to grow old and die off before the situation will change. Now, that being said, there has always been a small demographic in Ontario that would vote NDP even if Charles Manson was their leader! Perhaps with a small block from Ontario and increased support in other provinces the federal NDP could achieve power, as did Harper without support from Quebec. If this ever happened AND the federal NDP did not make any serious mistakes it would go a long way towards erasing Bob Rae's legacy. However, it will NOT be an easy thing to make happen! Where's Bob Rae federally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 At the end of the day they will screw up the country in such a way that it will cost and arm and a leg to get us up to Greece's level.You don't really have a firm grasp on Greece's problems, do you? You know how the Conservatives destroyed Ottawa's fiscal capacity by slashing taxes, but continued spending. Greece is in a similar situation, except people just refuse to pay their taxes there. The problem in Greece is a hell of a lot closer to what the Conservatives are doing than any of these hypotheticals you make up about the NDP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Where's Bob Rae federally? Where was he as premier of Ontario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 You don't really have a firm grasp on Greece's problems, do you? You know how the Conservatives destroyed Ottawa's fiscal capacity by slashing taxes, but continued spending. Greece is in a similar situation, except people just refuse to pay their taxes there. The problem in Greece is a hell of a lot closer to what the Conservatives are doing than any of these hypotheticals you make up about the NDP. Yes, the problem in Greece is because people refuse to pay taxes there were absolutely no other reasons. So if the Greeks would only pay taxes the country would be fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Where's Bob Rae federally? Does that matter? Nobody in Ontario cares where he is! They are not going to suddenly forget their feelings for the NDP just because Rae went to the Liberals! Rae had a whole team of ninnies like Pink Floyd, his finance minister and Ruth Grier, who banned incineration of waste for being too dirty and refused to look at any modern incinerator that was clean! As I said, it's not a head thing but a gut thing! You could argue till the cows come home and no one is going to change their mind. It would be like trying to get them to like Mulroney! Mulroney did some good things but no one cares. Everyone thinks only of the bad. It's similar to how the Liberal NEP poisoned westerners against them for generations. When you lose your job, your home and lord knows what else it tends to piss you off for years and years and years! Ontarioans HURT badly while Rae and his NDP were in power! Afterwards Ontarioans weren't inclined to chew over the political ramifications like a bunch of academics. They simply were angry! Large numbers still are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Yes, the problem in Greece is because people refuse to pay taxes there were absolutely no other reasons. So if the Greeks would only pay taxes the country would be fine? I'm not going to waste my time explaining Greece's economics to you because evidently things need to be black and white for you. Unfortunately, the real world isn't that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I like Quebec, I want them in Canada, and I fully recognize that they are indeed a distinct sub-culture of Canada, but it makes me PO'd how much we have to pander to them because of their threats of separation and whatnot. They do have a significant population, which of course makes politicians also pander to them, but in terms of what is given to them by government compared to other provinces it's a bit of a joke. They should be treated as equal, but different. If that would make them separate, so be it i guess. TROC should not be blackmailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vineon Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Oh-- you'd like to live in Lebanon2, North America? Actually, no. I would like to live in a place still called Québec (albeit a republic), that would still be in North America but would have little to do with Lebanon. But Lebanon2 strikes you as a more plausible scenario, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Actually, no. I would like to live in a place still called Québec (albeit a republic), that would still be in North America but would have little to do with Lebanon. But Lebanon2 strikes you as a more plausible scenario, right? Yeah, mainly because most separatists don't consider that should Quebec ever separate they will lose all those nice little things that the Federal government does for them, they will lose the Canadian passport which lets them travel almost anywhere they want, they have to take over the duties of the federal government which increases cost while independence will decrease income. Suddenly faced with significant debt and a large deficit Quebec will have to make cuts in Healthcare, Education, pensions and other government services like Defence and Foreign Missions(Embassies) amongst other deep cuts to your way of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vineon Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 (edited) Yeah, mainly because most separatists don't consider that should Quebec ever separate they will lose all those nice little things that the Federal government does for them, they will lose the Canadian passport which lets them travel almost anywhere they want, they have to take over the duties of the federal government which increases cost while independence will decrease income. Suddenly faced with significant debt and a large deficit Quebec will have to make cuts in Healthcare, Education, pensions and other government services like Defence and Foreign Missions(Embassies) amongst other deep cuts to your way of life. I didn't reply to your ridiculous long post following mine understanding the futility of it but I will to this much shorter one. I do not see how a Québec passport would be hindrance to anyone that wishes to travel. It is completely senseless to claim a Canadian one would carry much added value. Whatever duties taken over by Québec aren't extra expense as we already pay for them through our federal taxes. Whatever decrease income you talk about needs to be explained and put in numbers. You said 10% in your earlier post and Québec does nothing close from receiving 10% of its revenue from federal transfers. Edited July 7, 2012 by Vineon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signals.Cpl Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 I didn't reply to your ridiculous long post following mine understanding the futility of it but I will to this much shorter one. I do not see how a Québec passport would be hindrance to anyone that wishes to travel. It is completely senseless to claim a Canadian one would carry much added value. And it is a ridiculous claim when you say that a Quebec passport will be of any value when traveling abroad when compared to a well established nation like Canada/ Whatever duties taken over by Québec aren't extra expense as we already pay for them through our federal taxes. So you think that those taxes will cover defence, Foreign Affairs, loss of revenue from businesses fleeing the sinking ship(Quebec). Whatever decrease income you talk about needs to be put in numbers. You said 10% in your earlier post and Québec does nothing close from receiving 10% of its revenue from federal transfers. Quebec’s Liberal government continues to boast fiscal discipline in its battle against the province’s looming debt, tabling a $70.1 billion budget that restricts program spending... Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/03/19/quebec-budget-2012-2013.html While in 2012-2013 timeframe Quebec will receive 7,391,000,000 dollars in equalization payments. Source: http://www.fin.gc.ca/fedprov/eqp-eng.asp Now here is the formula: Equalization payment=7.391 billion Quebec Budget=70.1 billion (7.391/70.1)*100≈ 10.54% of the Quebec budget comes from the Equalization payments... you were right, it was not 10%, it was 10.54%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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