Elliott Lake Fiasco

Boges · June 27, 2012

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/26/warmington-elliot-lake-will-not-forget

This Mall collapsed on Saturday and it took them until Tuesday to call in someone that could get inside the mall? That's an outrage that this happened in Canada.

Oh and why didn't McDalton call in the Dart team like they did in Haiti to try to get to the people before they likely died trapped under rubble.

Someone's head has to roll for how this tragedy was handled.

GostHacked · June 27, 2012

I've been at that mall a few times, last time was about 15 years ago. Heads are going to roll indeed.

j44 · June 27, 2012

The Rescue was/is done poorly. But does this have to be on the news 24/7? No disrespect to the victims and their family and friends and the community. But how many times can they tell us what happened and how many locals can they interview to tell us how horrible it is?

Is this just me? I know the networks are trying to fill time but there is other things going on.

Boges · June 27, 2012

The Rescue was/is done poorly. But does this have to be on the news 24/7? No disrespect to the victims and their family and friends and the community. But how many times can they tell us what happened and how many locals can they interview to tell us how horrible it is?

Is this just me? I know the networks are trying to fill time but there is other things going on.

Well the story now is less about the collapse and how crappy the response was.

Apparently the rescue workers gave up and started to go home and had to be ordered back. :blink:

It looks like a bureaucrat got in the way of getting people out. They also prevented locals from trying to help.

Had this happened in Toronto do you really think the rescue would have been called off? That's the outrage.

j44 · June 27, 2012

Well the story now is less about the collapse and how crappy the response was.

Apparently the rescue workers gave up and started to go home and had to be ordered back.

It looks like a bureaucrat got in the way of getting people out. They also prevented locals from trying to help.

Had this happened in Toronto do you really think the rescue would have been called off? That's the outrage.

True. I get your point. But even with the mishandling a lot of the story is filler.

Boges · June 27, 2012

True. I get your point. But even with the mishandling a lot of the story is filler.

It's summer time. What do you want to hear more about that Senator that got pwnt by Trudeau Jr's attendance?

j44 · June 27, 2012

Pretty much anything else. It isn't like there is nothing but this or Senate attendance.

capricorn · June 27, 2012

This is so sad. My condolences to the families and friends of the victims, and to the community of Elliott Lake.

One day after authorities stopped — then quickly restarted — search and rescue operations after a roof collapsed at a northern Ontario shopping mall, questions turned to the speed and adequacy of the provincial response to a disaster that has claimed an unknown number of lives.
Rick Hamilton, the mayor of Elliot Lake, said Premier Dalton McGuinty didn't call him until late Monday, two days after the roof at the Algo Centre Mall collapsed, killing at least one and trapping an unknown number of others. Hamilton said the provincial emergency co-ordinator also arrived two days after the collapse.

But McGuinty, who has yet to visit the site of the disaster, steered clear of that criticism Tuesday.

"Some may want to engage in some kind of blame game," he told reporters in Toronto. "I just don't really think that's appropriate."

---

Madeleine Meilleur, the provincial minister that oversees Emergency Management Ontario, refused a request for an interview.

A spokesman for Meilleur also refused to say whether the province is officially leading the rescue effort.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Elliot+Lake+mall+collapse+puts+Ontario+response+spotlight/6844764/story.html

Who the hell is in charge?

capricorn · June 27, 2012

Had this happened in Toronto do you really think the rescue would have been called off? That's the outrage.

My thought exactly.

capricorn · June 27, 2012

True. I get your point. But even with the mishandling a lot of the story is filler.

Then don't watch it j44.

June 27, 2012

New headline suggestion. Mal de Terre

The way our media goes on and on with any crumb of new scuttlebutt is maddening. I have seen the one guy over and over and over in distress over his trapped girl friend.

At what point is it exploiting the dead, or missing or their families and friends. It becomes after all a scenario of news buzzards circling the victims. I'm obviously concerned and hope for the best, but I can't except the medias exploitation. Particularly the second guessing of the actions of those that would be rescuing their lives by rushing into danger.

I can fault the process once I have the facts, but let's understand the decision making first.

My first problem is how was this leaking mall passing inspection?

j44 · June 27, 2012

I'm not criticizing for criticisms sake. I just want to see some variety.

GostHacked · June 27, 2012

My thought exactly.

Well, you have to think of the rescuers now. Obviously the building is unstable, and the structure needs to be assessed for safe search and rescue. And if they go in, they could end up getting trapped, killed themselves. And if that happened, people would bitch that they should not have gone in that soon.

There is no way I'd be entering that structure at this point.

Was there a small quake to rattle the building? Ground shifted? Weather wear? Not built right in the first place? Many unanswered questions at this point.

Boges · June 27, 2012

Well, you have to think of the rescuers now. Obviously the building is unstable, and the structure needs to be assessed for safe search and rescue. And if they go in, they could end up getting trapped, killed themselves. And if that happened, people would bitch that they should not have gone in that soon.

There is no way I'd be entering that structure at this point.

Was there a small quake to rattle the building? Ground shifted? Weather wear? Not built right in the first place? Many unanswered questions at this point.

The problem is it took until Tuesday for anything to be done? Couldn't this heavy equipment been called Sunday?

It wasn't until the Media that j44 is bitching about exposed that the rescue workers actually started going home and the public wanted to rush the building and save people themselves that McDalton and the powers that be got involved.

capricorn · June 27, 2012

At what point is it exploiting the dead, or missing or their families and friends.

Speaking personally, it's hope against hope that someone will be found alive. This keeps me interested in developments.

My first problem is how was this leaking mall passing inspection?

That is very worrisome for all of us. I read that the parking zone was added on above the mall to increase parking for mall customers. Stinks of greed.

capricorn · June 27, 2012

Well, you have to think of the rescuers now. Obviously the building is unstable, and the structure needs to be assessed for safe search and rescue. And if they go in, they could end up getting trapped, killed themselves. And if that happened, people would bitch that they should not have gone in that soon.

For sure, I would not want rescuers to be killed trying to recover bodies.

BubberMiley · June 27, 2012

"Some may want to engage in some kind of blame game," McGuinty told reporters in Toronto. "I just don't really think that's appropriate."

Reminds me of the Jon Stewart line during Katrina: "If you don't like the blame game, it is usually because you're to blame."

PIK · June 27, 2012

Well, you have to think of the rescuers now. Obviously the building is unstable, and the structure needs to be assessed for safe search and rescue. And if they go in, they could end up getting trapped, killed themselves. And if that happened, people would bitch that they should not have gone in that soon.

There is no way I'd be entering that structure at this point.

Was there a small quake to rattle the building? Ground shifted? Weather wear? Not built right in the first place? Many unanswered questions at this point.

That is total BS. What do you thing rescuers do? That is what they get paid for? Look at 9/11 ,look when a mine collapes.Look all over the place and the heroics that take place SAVING PEOPLE LIVES. What they have done is a national shame. Heads must roll, starting with the minister in charge, Madeleine Meilleur and then dalton. Meiller was to busy with st bastice day to get invovled, she and staff should have been there on day 1 or 2, not heading up there now. Harper offered the military help, dalton said everything is under control. So everyone that keeps voting lib and the dippers that had a chance to get rid of these fools, thank you very much.

PIK · June 27, 2012

For sure, I would not want rescuers to be killed trying to recover bodies.

They heard tapping, 5 hrs later they were ordered to quit, I understand they had police stopping the people from going in to get the job done. We all should hold our heads in shame for what happened there.

scribblet · June 27, 2012

It's tragic, and on the surface it does appear that someone screwed up. However, not everyone here is fully informed or knows exactly what the problem was, what information and knowledge the decision to not go forward was based on. Really, get a grip, let's wait for the facts shall we. None of us have any facts about the decision making and the state of the building do we.

bleeding heart · June 27, 2012

It's tragic, and on the surface it does appear that someone screwed up. However, not everyone here is fully informed or knows exactly what the problem was, what information and knowledge the decision to not go forward was based on. Really, get a grip, let's wait for the facts shall we. None of us have any facts about the decision making and the state of the building do we.

Well said. The very worst criticisms may well turn out to be accurate, but as of yet, we just don't know.

Boges · June 27, 2012

It's tragic, and on the surface it does appear that someone screwed up. However, not everyone here is fully informed or knows exactly what the problem was, what information and knowledge the decision to not go forward was based on. Really, get a grip, let's wait for the facts shall we. None of us have any facts about the decision making and the state of the building do we.

What about the facts we do know. That it took 4+ days for them to get proper machinery to the town and McDalton had to tell the rescue workers to go back after they were on their way home.

And that Federal assistance was offered to Dalton by the PM and he turned it down.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Boges

msj · June 27, 2012

I will agree with scribblet for once - lets wait and get the facts in order before twisting our panties in a knot.

That is very worrisome for all of us. I read that the parking zone was added on above the mall to increase parking for mall customers. Stinks of greed.

No, smells like convenience for customers.

Too bad the private sector did such a poor job building/maintaining the structure.

Edited June 27, 2012 by msj

GostHacked · June 27, 2012

The problem is it took until Tuesday for anything to be done? Couldn't this heavy equipment been called Sunday?

The crane they required came from Toronto from what I understand. Maybe it was the only area that had a crane with the capacity they needed. It took a couple days to get there from what I understand and then set up. Then you assess the building, moving this one beam could cause more problems than good.

It wasn't until the Media that j44 is bitching about exposed that the rescue workers actually started going home and the public wanted to rush the building and save people themselves that McDalton and the powers that be got involved.

We'd also have a firestorm if the search and rescue teams went in and got trapped/killed because the building was not properly assessed. I understand the urge/need to get in there, I'd want to do but take a step back and think about it for a moment. A building collapsed and is unstable. It's unfortunate that one person has died, and there might be a couple more.

The_Squid · June 27, 2012

Harper's government is cutting funding to emergency services... This sure is not going to help in a disaster!

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Stakeholders+foul+feds+funding+emergency+preparedness/6814690/story.html

Complaints from provinces, municipalities and fire departments across the country are mounting, as are concerns for public safety, after the federal government ended a 30-year funding program designed to help cover the costs of emergency preparedness.
Among the cuts in the omnibus budget bill, the government quietly cancelled the Joint Emergency Preparedness Program (JEPP) established in 1980 and ceased operations at the Canadian Emergency Management College which has offered training to emergency responders since 1954.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Stakeholders+foul+feds+funding+emergency+preparedness/6814690/story.html#ixzz1z1gxnZn3

While this may not have been an issue in this particular case, this will only make matters worse in the future when there are even less people and less funding to prepare for disasters.