Guest Peeves Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Now thats funny, considering he is the first or second foremost expert on Constitutional matters. But par for the course, attack the expert since he must be anti-Cons. For the rest of the answer, read post 25. That guy knows. Every government is bad, ours presently is simply much better than the past and superior to the alternatives. We voted for them for that reason. I sure wouldn't want that NDP Quebec party in power, and I think the other..what was their name? Anyway they are redundant if not a threatened specie. Edited June 27, 2012 by Peeves Quote
PIK Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 you are wrong. in 2015 PM mulcair will have a thriving economy based on green energy projects. Take a look around the world including ONT all that bought onto the green energy myth, it has destroyed thier economies.. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Guest Peeves Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 Now thats funny, considering he is the first or second foremost expert on Constitutional matters. But par for the course, attack the expert since he must be anti-Cons. For the rest of the answer, read post 25. That guy knows. I love ex spurt opinions, they're so, so, je ne sais quoi , but really important in my day to day life. How could we live without them? This one ha a point...somewhere. but the thing with ex spurts is one can always find another with a diametrically opposed opinion he/she will swear to and share with you, usually for a price. Quote
guyser Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Every government is bad, ours presently is simply much better than the past and superior to the alternatives. We voted for them for that reason. I sure wouldn't want that NDP Quebec party in power, and I think the other..what was their name? Anyway they are redundant if not a threatened specie. I didnt vote for them to lie about our Constitution...you are saying you did? Govts are bad, but that is not the point no matter how certain people of political stripes are trying to paint this. "But but but....the others are worse " is a horrible answer, but one that seems to be increasing around here. Edited June 27, 2012 by guyser Quote
guyser Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Posted June 27, 2012 I love ex spurt opinions, they're so, so, je ne sais quoi , but really important in my day to day life. How could we live without them? This one ha a point...somewhere. but the thing with ex spurts is one can always find another with a diametrically opposed opinion he/she will swear to and share with you, usually for a price. And once again, an attempt to denigrate one with 40 years as a Prof, decades as President of Innis College. Sure....shoot him down as a hack because.....gasp....he thinks some Conservatives are deliberately misleading the public. Find another expert with similar credentials to rebutt him then. We will wait....tap tap tap.... Quote
bleeding heart Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) "But but but....the others are worse " is a horrible answer, but one that seems to be increasing around here. A truly horrible answer. It's one thing, if one believes it to be factual, to point it out; it's quite another thing to use it as an answer when somebody criticizes the Government. Then it's somewhere between useless and worse than. Edited June 27, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
scribblet Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 Yawn. Libs and the NDP would have used exactly the same rhetoric if it suited them. For evidence look at the number of Libs/Dippers claiming that the CPC is undemocratic because it was elected by a minority of voters. And if the NDP are elected next time around with the same statistics, we know it'll be perfectly fine and democratic Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
GostHacked Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 Take a look around the world including ONT all that bought onto the green energy myth, it has destroyed thier economies.. I agree. Just to swap out to new hardware costs money. Parts plus labour. And it's not like anyone is being compensated for this bullshit. You pay and pay and pay. I'll give some personal analogies which might hint at some of the hidden costs Like the new expensive light bulbs with mercury and such in them. And they do not last as long as old incandescent lights. They do not save much on energy. I use one in my bedroom, and the sucker takes about 90 seconds to get up to full brightness. Before I could flick the light, see and grab what I need and then turn the light off ... Now I wait 90 seconds in order to get full light to see something. Waste of my time and a waste of energy. Smartmeters with these new remotes (control your house from anywhere!!! ...) .. you see the bill boards .. smartmeter+ remote unit = savings. As long as you are doing things in off peak hours. And really there is no savings. The power company will pass the cost to the consumer to implement new hardware. No savings in terms of money, and no savings in terms of power consumption. Visiting my parents a couple weeks ago, and I needed to do some laundry as I packed light. Me - I need to do some laundry (Noon) Mom - have to wait till after 6m ..rates are better. Me - I need this now Mom- well we have to wait Me - Fine, you want money for it?? Mom - ok fine do your laundry now. I dont' care if its off peak or on peak, I need it when I need it. And I will pay the rate of whatever it is. It's more to condition you to use your appliancese when THEY tell you to. The only reason it would be peak is during the day when BUSINESSES are sucking all the energy. Do peak hours affect businesses? I would say no. Do they pay peak rates? Again, I'd say no. One way to reduce energy costs is to switch from things that are power vampires. Your TV is always drawing power, even in the 'off' state. Otherwise you would not be able to turn on the TV with the remote. It has to power the senor to receive the signal. Now how many other devices in the home that do this? We do need to be smarter about our energy consumption, but toxic mercury lightbulbs that cost 2-3x as much and last half as long, is definitely not part of the solution. Quote
Shady Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 Now thats funny, considering he is the first or second foremost expert on Constitutional matters. According to who? Is there some kind of ranking system? Quote
Argus Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 you are wrong. in 2015 PM mulcair will have a thriving economy based on green energy projects. Even though no one else on the planet has seen anything but red ink from their green energy projects. Even though Ontario is drowning in red ink because of their green energy projects. Sure. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 solyndra was just a smear campaign against obama by right wing fanatics. You mean it wasn't a solar panel plant which consumed hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks and then went bankrupt? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 Um, he's one of the advisors to governors general on constitutional matters. Think so? You think he's employed in any capacity by the government of the day? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 Why do you insist on cherrypicking parts of my posts to avoid the salient points? Ministers of the Crown, and specifically the Prime Minsister, are being singled out. They were in 2008 Conservative. They are being singled out because they deliberately uttered lies. They are being further singled out because they deliberately uttered lies about the fundamental constitutional laws of parliamentary democracy and, in doing so, undermined the system itself. That demonstrably is not the same as mere political rhetoric that all parties are guilty of. [+] Did any minister of the crown say that a liberal ndp coalition was unconstitutional? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 You must live a very sheltered life to not be aware of any environmental catastrophes whatsoever. You must not be able to read English. I never said there hadn't been environmental catastrophes. I said that joe lunchbucket would rather put up with them than lose his job. Joe Lunchbucket will put up with anything to keep a job. There's a thousand years of history behind that. No matter how deadly a job, how dangerous, how poisonous the material, how damaging to their health, they'll still keep going as long as they can't find a better one. And if you threaten to close down his plant because it's killing him he'll beat you to a pulp. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dre Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 I agree. Just to swap out to new hardware costs money. Parts plus labour. And it's not like anyone is being compensated for this bullshit. You pay and pay and pay. I'll give some personal analogies which might hint at some of the hidden costs Like the new expensive light bulbs with mercury and such in them. And they do not last as long as old incandescent lights. They do not save much on energy. I use one in my bedroom, and the sucker takes about 90 seconds to get up to full brightness. Before I could flick the light, see and grab what I need and then turn the light off ... Now I wait 90 seconds in order to get full light to see something. Waste of my time and a waste of energy. Smartmeters with these new remotes (control your house from anywhere!!! ...) .. you see the bill boards .. smartmeter+ remote unit = savings. As long as you are doing things in off peak hours. And really there is no savings. The power company will pass the cost to the consumer to implement new hardware. No savings in terms of money, and no savings in terms of power consumption. Visiting my parents a couple weeks ago, and I needed to do some laundry as I packed light. Me - I need to do some laundry (Noon) Mom - have to wait till after 6m ..rates are better. Me - I need this now Mom- well we have to wait Me - Fine, you want money for it?? Mom - ok fine do your laundry now. I dont' care if its off peak or on peak, I need it when I need it. And I will pay the rate of whatever it is. It's more to condition you to use your appliancese when THEY tell you to. The only reason it would be peak is during the day when BUSINESSES are sucking all the energy. Do peak hours affect businesses? I would say no. Do they pay peak rates? Again, I'd say no. One way to reduce energy costs is to switch from things that are power vampires. Your TV is always drawing power, even in the 'off' state. Otherwise you would not be able to turn on the TV with the remote. It has to power the senor to receive the signal. Now how many other devices in the home that do this? We do need to be smarter about our energy consumption, but toxic mercury lightbulbs that cost 2-3x as much and last half as long, is definitely not part of the solution. You must have bought real shitty lightbulbs because Iv been using mini flourescents for a few years now, and they dont take any time to heat up, and they last a hell of a lot longer that filament bulbs. The real problem with mini flourescents is that in Canada you are heating for most of the year, and those incandescent bulbs are actually nice little 100% efficient electric heaters. So most of what you save in lighting with miniflourescents will be lost in increased heating costs. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Argus Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) I didnt vote for them to lie about our Constitution...you are saying you did? Do you have a cite whereby the Conservatives said a coalition was unconstitutional? Does the senile old 'expert' have such a quote? Edited June 27, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 And once again, an attempt to denigrate one with 40 years as a Prof, decades as President of Innis College. Sure....shoot him down as a hack because.....gasp....he thinks some Conservatives are deliberately misleading the public. Wait. What? The old fart thinks politicians tried to mislead the public? Wow. That's really a stop the presses moment. Who would have thought politicians, of all people, would try to mislead the public!? Now here's a job for you. Go back over every government in Canadian history and find me the one that didn't try to mislead the public. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dre Posted June 27, 2012 Report Posted June 27, 2012 Now here's a job for you. Go back over every government in Canadian history and find me the one that didn't try to mislead the public. So what... thats not a reason for us to accept that kind of thing. Its our JOB to be critical of government and keep them honest, not to excuse their indiscretions simply because some other government in the past did the same thing. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Argus Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 So what... thats not a reason for us to accept that kind of thing. Its our JOB to be critical of government and keep them honest, not to excuse their indiscretions simply because some other government in the past did the same thing. You want to hold all of them equally to task, fine. I don't see that happening. I see people screaming in self-righteous horror at the Tories doing the same things their own party does and has done and which they're fine with. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dre Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 You want to hold all of them equally to task, fine. I don't see that happening. I see people screaming in self-righteous horror at the Tories doing the same things their own party does and has done and which they're fine with. People are screaming about the Tories because they are the current government. The liberals did plenty of stuff to make people angry. I dont see why this would suprise you. The Harper government is in focus now because its... well... its the government. And once the conservatives are out people will focus their most critisism on whoever the new government is. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
bleeding heart Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) We've just got to start holding the people not in power to the same standards we're holding the people in power. Look--again--I agree with the ""The Liberals did it too," theme; it's obviously true. I agree with the "The NDP will doubtless act similarly, were they in power" theme. But at some point--this one actually, the point we're currently at--such objections are explicitly diversions, made by tantrum-throwing Conservative partisans who don't want anyone to criticize the Government. It's weak, man, weak, and an embarassment. Edited June 28, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
guyser Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Posted June 28, 2012 Did any minister of the crown say that a liberal ndp coalition was unconstitutional? The term I have seen used was 'not legitimate' , and that is an outirght lie. Quote
guyser Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Posted June 28, 2012 Wait. What? The old fart Your continual (among others)denigration of a scholar of constitutional law would be funny if it weren't so embarassing and juvenile. Quote
Tilter Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 You must not be able to read English. I never said there hadn't been environmental catastrophes. I said that joe lunchbucket would rather put up with them than lose his job. Joe Lunchbucket will put up with anything to keep a job. There's a thousand years of history behind that. No matter how deadly a job, how dangerous, how poisonous the material, how damaging to their health, they'll still keep going as long as they can't find a better one. And if you threaten to close down his plant because it's killing him he'll beat you to a pulp. I wonder how the past employees of the asbestos industry feel that way now? As a person who unknowingly worked next to a massive pipe replacement being done in a kevlar plant, the pipes of which were covered with an in & half of asbestos fibre, I am thankful fro each day I don't have Mesothelioma and would never again work near it. I'd bet that the remaining (live) workers from that plant wouldn't again do the job they did with or without the protections now in place that were missing in the 70s, as wouldn't my Bro-in-law who is now and has been for many years, dead from Mesothelioma. Quote
bleeding heart Posted June 28, 2012 Report Posted June 28, 2012 I wonder how the past employees of the asbestos industry feel that way now? As a person who unknowingly worked next to a massive pipe replacement being done in a kevlar plant, the pipes of which were covered with an in & half of asbestos fibre, I am thankful fro each day I don't have Mesothelioma and would never again work near it. I'd bet that the remaining (live) workers from that plant wouldn't again do the job they did with or without the protections now in place that were missing in the 70s, as wouldn't my Bro-in-law who is now and has been for many years, dead from Mesothelioma. That's a great point. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
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