Guest Manny Posted June 12, 2012 Report Posted June 12, 2012 It makes sense to smash the window, but there's a lot of things to consider. You come across a car with a dog in it on a hot day. Would you not have to consider how long the animal has been in there? How would you have any way of knowing this? What if the person was literally running in, dropping something off somewhere, and coming back out. All within a couple minutes, but you come upon the car in the interim. Do you stay with the car for a few minutes to see if the person is coming back? How long do you wait? Do you just smash the window immediately? What if the windows are cracked a couple inches? Do you still smash the window? Do you wait longer before smashing the window? Do you assess the condition of the animal in the car? Can you assess the condition of the animal just by looking at it? All very good questions. If the dog seems ok, maybe there is no problem. Maybe it's not hot in there. If the window is cracked, one could stick their arm in the window and feel around, see how hot it is. On second thought, maybe that's not a good idea... Probably call the authoritities, animal control, or somebody. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted June 12, 2012 Report Posted June 12, 2012 You wouldnt categorize her as being negligent? Oh, definitely - but not willfully negligent. I say that anything someone has to think about then decide is not merely a human mistake. ( not all will agree) As I said, she obviously did think about it as she did crack the window. Fact is, when we didn't have AC, people still drove in cars in the heat of the desert - and I do believe that some people do not realize the danger of a parked car, even when it's not shut up tight. But of course people can think about things and still don't always make the right decision; they don't always come up with the right answer. That's being human. Thats just the thing. The moment she (and he too-he is as guilty as her) the teo of them opened the car door they would have been met with a blast of heat. It was one of those days that we all get in S ontario and Michigan. You are correct in that she may not have sweat, but she would definitely been hit w a blast of heat walking towards the entrance. I'm not arguing that it was hot; I'm saying she may not have been as aware of it as you seem to think she should have been. But one has an advantage when sitting down and thinking it all out as compared to just automatically doing. Quite true and cannot refute. But it is also factual . No, it isn't factual; it's your judgment/opinion. No theres the truth. We all make mistakes , but I am not too sure we can use that reasoning when a loss of life has occurred. (thankfully not a child-baby in there) Actually, that reasoning has been used when a loss of life has occurred - even a human life. I dont think we are far removed in our thinking and agree for the most part. Perhaps, so best leave it at that, eh? Quote
BubberMiley Posted June 12, 2012 Report Posted June 12, 2012 I agree that you can't smash the window until you've determined whether it was willful negligence or pure negligence. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Posted June 12, 2012 ...a smart dog would just open the door locks. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
CPCFTW Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 ...an american dog would just open the door locks. Ftfy (american abbrev. for "fixed that for you" on america's internet). Come on BC, you're breaking character! Quote
dre Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 The problem is if you smash the window the dog can get out of the car and then its loose in an urban environment to get run over or just lost in which case it could die of hunger. You could smash the sunroof if there is one... Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Boges Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) AW I certainly agree that as you age your judgement improves. But once you reach the age of majority you can face the consequences of your actions the same as someone much older. This lady had faced the wrath of public opinion. Most people aren't buying the excuse that she just lost track of time. The father made it worse by blaming the media and saying that they don't have malls that size in Sudbury so she must have been wow'd by Vaughan Mills. Made her look like a small town girl that couldn't handle being in the big city. She was charged with a crime. That crime has a potential penalty of jail time but more likely she'll face a fine and perhaps community service. I don't think her age should change a judge's mind in passing out whatever sentence he/she see's fit to pass down. Edited June 13, 2012 by Boges Quote
cybercoma Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 All very good questions. If the dog seems ok, maybe there is no problem. Maybe it's not hot in there. If the window is cracked, one could stick their arm in the window and feel around, see how hot it is. On second thought, maybe that's not a good idea... Probably call the authoritities, animal control, or somebody. I think your final suggestion is the route I would take. However, how long do you wait to call animal control or security at the mall? What if the dog looks fine when you walk by the car? What if the dog is already dead, but it looks like it's sleeping? I don't think it's so straightforward to respond to this situation as the OP makes it seem and as one would initially respond to it having the hindsight of the consequences. Quote
cybercoma Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 willfully negligent. Wouldn't this be an oxymoron? Quote
cybercoma Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 The problem is if you smash the window the dog can get out of the car and then its loose in an urban environment to get run over or just lost in which case it could die of hunger. You could smash the sunroof if there is one... Smashing a sunroof is extremely difficult. It's usually laminated glass, like the windshield. Quote
guyser Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 Wouldn't this be an oxymoron? Dont think so. Knowing the stairs are ready to fall down is one thing = wilfully negligent Thinking "hmm those stairs look funny" =negligent Turning a blind eye vs not knowing Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 Ftfy (american abbrev. for "fixed that for you" on america's internet). Come on BC, you're breaking character! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Anti-Am Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 Dog people who bring their dog everywhere they go annoy me. And ones with no scooper. And people who claim their dog wouldn't hurt a fly. Dogs are wild animals, even domesticated dogs have some wild in them. Its not something you can train all out of him or her. Quote
bleeding heart Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 Dog people who bring their dog everywhere they go annoy me. And ones with no scooper. And people who claim their dog wouldn't hurt a fly. Dogs are wild animals, even domesticated dogs have some wild in them. Its not something you can train all out of him or her. I love dogs, but you make a good point. Almost every victim of dog attack was bitten by a dog that "wouldn't hurt a fly." Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Guest American Woman Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 Dont think so. Knowing the stairs are ready to fall down is one thing = wilfully negligent Thinking "hmm those stairs look funny" =negligent Turning a blind eye vs not knowing Exactly. And as the saying goes - "ignorance of the law is no excuse," so someone who doesn't know the law is still guilty of breaking it - but someone who knew the law and broke it anyway hoping they wouldn't get caught, willfully broke the law. By the same token, someone who thought "it might be dangerous to leave my dog out in the heat but I'm going to do it anyway because he'll probably be fine" is willfully negligent, while someone who believes that the dog will be ok if the window is cracked to let air in, is not willfully negligent; their negligence is due to a lack of knowledge vs. having the knowledge and chancing it and doing it anyway. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 AW I certainly agree that as you age your judgement improves. But once you reach the age of majority you can face the consequences of your actions the same as someone much older. I'n not saying that she shouldn't face the consequences; I'm saying that I think there's a lot of judgment going on - some of it of the 'holier than thou' variety. People likely wouldn't want the same judgment passed on them for some of the stupid things they did - and had good fortune on their side so it didn't have tragic results. This lady had faced the wrath of public opinion. Most people aren't buying the excuse that she just lost track of time. That's the judgment that I'm speaking of. How would they have any idea if she lost track of the time or not? I think we've all lost track of the time at some point in our lives. The father made it worse by blaming the media and saying that they don't have malls that size in Sudbury so she must have been wow'd by Vaughan Mills. Made her look like a small town girl that couldn't handle being in the big city. The father was likely simply stating the facts, and why shouldn't he? Perhaps as a small town girl of 20 she was wowed by Vaughn Mills. As a small town girl myself, who never saw a skyscraper until after graduating from high school, I know firsthand that it happens. She was charged with a crime. That crime has a potential penalty of jail time but more likely she'll face a fine and perhaps community service. I don't think her age should change a judge's mind in passing out whatever sentence he/she see's fit to pass down. I think it should. If someone purposely acts negligently, I think it's a worse scenario than someone who is negligent due to lack of knowledge. Quote
GostHacked Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 1- if you come across that, might want to call the mall to page the person who owns car/plate to come and get the dog. Surprised this has not been mentioned yet. If no response in X minutes, call police or take matter in your own hands. I would even offer to pay to replace the window if I had to rescue a dog. Quote
bleeding heart Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 I'n not saying that she shouldn't face the consequences; I'm saying that I think there's a lot of judgment going on - some of it of the 'holier than thou' variety. People likely wouldn't want the same judgment passed on them for some of the stupid things they did - and had good fortune on their side so it didn't have tragic results. In a case like this, I think it's a point worth keeping in mind. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
TheNewTeddy Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 Security can not break the window, but if I saw security at the car calling for rescue, I'd break the window for them. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
PIK Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 Yes it is. If hot out, leave dog home or someone in the car. Sorry dude, fallacy. 20C is plenty hot when a car is air tight and in the sun. It will double in a mere 10-15 minutes. You could get charged, but I doubt anyone will. Once I have broken the window, I will then reach out and break something else.....his nose. How could these otherwise sane kids be so stupid. Is Sudbury that much coller or something they didnt think it would happen? Great post and I would back you all the way. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Wilber Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 It's about the dog, not its owner. If it is in distress, you have to do something about it. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
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