jacee Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Nobody called for him to resign. But he resorted to one of the most stereotypically idiotic and overplayed cards in history. Its not that he should resign its just embarrassing its our top politician saying something so retarded. The fact he would use that tactic suggests he thinks Canadians are stupid people that wouldnt see it for what it is. Harper does see Canadians as stupid. Probably because those toadying around him are. He knows how to rile up the bigots, but he constantly alienates anyone with a brain and a conscience. It's an embarrassment, but mildly entertaining at times. The twitterverse https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/search/%23HarperHistory My fav ... "Derrick O'Keefe The NDP caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. Stockwell Day can confirm this one." Edited April 28, 2012 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Wrongo,Sport..Only J.S. Woodsworth(a true coward) stood against the invasion of Poland and the resulting Declaration of War...The rest of the CCF caucus didn't stand with thier leader... Score 1 for the historians... I don't disagree with anything else that you've said,other than the fact that Mr. Mulcair may be a tad smarter than Mr. Harper... And JS Woodsworth was no coward. He was involved in the Winnipeg General Strike. Woodsworth opposed the war because he was a religious man that opposed all war due to his faith. If Harper's base knew anything about Woodsworth, they would be upset with the prime minister for attacking a man for his faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 I guess you're right:Wikipedia But Weber, you lose. Ordinary Canadians don't care about these finer points of CCF/NDP ideology - except that we have to pay for the debate, while suffering accusations (Quebec-bashing) that our debates also waste time/money. As my bilingual son says, "Whatever." You know what the average Canadian is going to see? They're going to see Harper asked a very straightforward question about whether or not the troops will stay in Afghanistan after 2014. Then they'll see him invoking Hitler to insult the NDP. That's what they'll see. If they look further into it, they'll see that the NDP wasn't even formed until 1961. How you could consider this a win for Harper is beyond me. He screwed himself here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Pacifism is morally bankrupt in the face of pure evil...In this case,it is also cowardice... Easy for you to say in a post-holocaust world. We're talking about a period in our history where Canada had eugenics boards because we believed it was good social policy. You can't use present-day moral sensibilities to judge the past. Obviously pacifism was not the best choice during WWII, but he certainly didn't stand alone in his conviction. There were serious battles in the US over going to war or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted April 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Score 1 for Harper. I hope he scores more like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Silly people. He meant Gustaf Hitler, that guy that was a member of the Niagara Divers Products. He was related to Adolf and thought Canada was going to close his export business with Adolf who had a franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 You can't use present-day moral sensibilities to judge the past. O I certainly hope we use present day moral sensibilities to judge the past. Otherwise, we are bound to repeat the same moral failings in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Well, some of the public wants the PM to recieve the same treatment as Vic and so they added their thoughts of what the NDP did or didn't so. Some are very funny. http://storify.com/torontostar/history-according-to-stephen-harper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) I guess you're right:Wikipedia But Weber, you lose. Ordinary Canadians don't care about these finer points of CCF/NDP ideology - except that we have to pay for the debate, while suffering accusations (Quebec-bashing) that our debates also waste time/money. As my bilingual son says, "Whatever." Did you know a Former leader of what is now the Conservative party of Canada opposed abortion and thought people and dinosaurs wondered the earth together? There for Harper must also believe those things right? What a dumb argument and I can believe you are pushing it. Edited April 28, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 I certainly hope we use present day moral sensibilities to judge the past. Otherwise, we are bound to repeat the same moral failings in the future. We often repeat them anyway given how much of society drives forward through time with it's wistful gaze fixed on the rear view mirror and the older better times they see in it's reflection. LOOK OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nittanylionstorm07 Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Did you know a Former leader of what is now the Conservative party of Canada opposed abortion and thought people and thought people and dinosaurs wondered the earth together? There for Harper must also believe those things right? What a dumb argument and I can believe you are pushing it. I can. I've come to believe August1991 is completely nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 I certainly hope we use present day moral sensibilities to judge the past. Otherwise, we are bound to repeat the same moral failings in the future. You can't judge a person by their decisions and choices in the past with the moral sensibilities of today because that isn't the framework they were working in. It's like all those people that bring up American figures that held slaves, as though this wasn't common practice at the time. Going into WWII wasn't a simple foregone conclusion in 1939. For instance, the United States had plenty of debate over whether or not they should get involved. More to the point, Woodsworth was guided by his religious convictions that required him to be a pacifist. Your framework for judging Woodsworth is disingenuous at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) LOL What harper said must have really stung the left, as they say the truth hurts and it was the truth. Who cares what the left calls themselve ,they still are the left. And if the left had thier way , none of us would be speaking english or french. And lets not forget harper has been called a nazi by the left ever since he came along, so he throws one back at you and listen to the crying. And now the left is crying because harper had a closed door meeting with the dali lama, saying he is sucking up to the chimese by doing it. Yet chretien pretty well lived in china when he was PM and nobody could suck up to the chinese like chretien. Edited April 28, 2012 by PIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 LOL What harper said must have really stung the left, as they say the truth hurts and it was the truth. The only stinging pain I'm feeling is the splitting of my sides when I laugh. Oh no, here it comes again...Ahhh Bwahahahahahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) .....It's like all those people that bring up American figures that held slaves, as though this wasn't common practice at the time. Going into WWII wasn't a simple foregone conclusion in 1939. For instance, the United States had plenty of debate over whether or not they should get involved. Slavery was an economic institution that was not settled by mere debate. The Unites States was not attacked by Germany in September 1939, and neither was any other Commonwealth nation. Edited April 28, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 The only stinging pain I'm feeling is the splitting of my sides when I laugh. Oh no, here it comes again...Ahhh Bwahahahahahahaha! Agreed. Invoking Hitler to insult the ndp is hilarious. Shows Harper's lack of class and sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 You can't judge a person by their decisions and choices in the past with the moral sensibilities of today because that isn't the framework they were working in. This is BS. You really think that there was no one fighting against and arguing against eugenics, slavery, racism, etc in the past? People either think the right way about something or not. The time of when, what generation, etc... is irrelevant. People should know better, people ought to know better, and to use the "herd instinct" as an excuse is silly. Going into WWII wasn't a simple foregone conclusion in 1939. For instance, the United States had plenty of debate over whether or not they should get involved. More to the point, Woodsworth was guided by his religious convictions that required him to be a pacifist. Your framework for judging Woodsworth is disingenuous at best. I'm sure you would find people back in 1939 who thought Woodsworth was a pacifistic idiot, just like many people who look back on him now seem him. He was a PI afaic. In fact, giving the CCF's vote I would conclude that even many in his own party thought kindly of him but wisely disagreed with him. I agree with you, however, that going into WWII was not entirely a foregone conclusion - even Britain needed a kick in the head to realize its necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Let me guess.. He should resign? I'm starting to believe in Shady's Harper derangement syndrome theory. No!!! Keep him around for a while so he can spout historically clueless (complete) nonsense so we can all laugh at him!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 And JS Woodsworth was no coward. He was involved in the Winnipeg General Strike. Woodsworth opposed the war because he was a religious man that opposed all war due to his faith. If Harper's base knew anything about Woodsworth, they would be upset with the prime minister for attacking a man for his faith. Well then J.S. Woodsworth should have stood on the beach at Normandy pleading with the NAZI's and the Allies to stop shooting at one another and to sit down and have a little chat... In the face of pure evil,J.S. Woddsworth's pacifism is pure unadulterated cowardice dressed up as moral uprightness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 LOL What harper said must have really stung the left, as they say the truth hurts and it was the truth. Who cares what the left calls themselve ,they still are the left. And if the left had thier way , none of us would be speaking english or french. And lets not forget harper has been called a nazi by the left ever since he came along, so he throws one back at you and listen to the crying. And now the left is crying because harper had a closed door meeting with the dali lama, saying he is sucking up to the chimese by doing it. Yet chretien pretty well lived in china when he was PM and nobody could suck up to the chinese like chretien. By the way,we're laughing AT you...NOT with you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Well then J.S. Woodsworth should have stood on the beach at Normandy pleading with the NAZI's and the Allies to stop shooting at one another and to sit down and have a little chat... In the face of pure evil,J.S. Woddsworth's pacifism is pure unadulterated cowardice dressed up as moral uprightness... Normandy wouldn't take place until 5 years later, after Woodsworth's death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Normandy wouldn't take place until 5 years later, after Woodsworth's death. Oh well.... His rightminded CCF caucus had a spine and didn't chicken out like he did in '39... Undoubtedly,Woodwroth felt the "Neville Chamberlain" approach was the best course of action...Because that was so historically successful... Edited April 28, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Well then J.S. Woodsworth should have stood on the beach at Normandy pleading with the NAZI's and the Allies to stop shooting at one another and to sit down and have a little chat... In the face of pure evil,J.S. Woddsworth's pacifism is pure unadulterated cowardice dressed up as moral uprightness... Claim down. Canada was one of the first countries into WW2 when that vote was taken, Woodsworth may have very well changed his mind if he didn't have a stroke a few months after this vote and die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Claim down. Canada was one of the first countries into WW2 when that vote was taken, Woodsworth may have very well changed his mind if he didn't have a stroke a few months after this vote and die. I'm perfectly "claim"... The fact is that Woodsworth had a mountian of evidence about Fascist agression in Europe long before the Invasion of Poland... I doubt anything would have changed his mind...He was a devout Pacifist... It doesn't matter,however,because even his own CCF caucus threw him under the bus... Edited April 28, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Oh well.... His rightminded CCF caucus had a spine and didn't chicken out like he did in '39... Undoubtedly,Woodwroth felt the "Neville Chamberlain" approach was the best course of action...Because that was so historically successful... Maybe in 39 he supported the American Neutrality Act you better go on to talk about how much you hate the US involvement in the war to because they didn't vote in 39 to go to war either. That wouldn't happen until 41 when Woodsworth was dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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