CRAZY abortion bill being considered by Tennessee GOP

[cybercoma]

A fetus is no more a person than an acorn is a tree and even if they are considered a person that doesn't preclude a woman's right to control over her own body. Otherwise, we could legally harvest the organs of the non-willing for those that are dying.

Edited March 20, 2012 by cybercoma

[Shady]

A fetus is no more a person than an acorn is a tree

Wow, I didn't know such anti-science, flat-earth thinking still existed in today's society.

Ignoring science for the win!

[Shady]

Youre turning away from the real premise of this thread

Your premise is nonsensical. Privacy isn't being violated. Demographic information gathering, unattached to any name isn't crazy. Only to rabid pro-abortion types I guess.

[Black Dog]

Your premise is nonsensical. Privacy isn't being violated. Demographic information gathering, unattached to any name isn't crazy. Only to rabid pro-abortion types I guess.

So why is this information necessary? What pubic good is being served here?

[WWWTT]

For me this is a difficult subject to comment on but here goes.

I personaly am against abortion.

I believe all life is beautifull and should be respected.

However life is not so simply defined.

Many people are vegetarians,claiming the same rally cry as the pro life group.However many people and other life forms around the world are dependant and consuming other life forms to continue their existence.I myself consume the flesh of other forms of life and am dependant on continuing to do so.

So in this case do we have the right to tell other people how they should aquire their nutrition?Is human life more important then other life forms?

For life to continue cells must continue to divide(egg and sperm/xx xx and xx xy/female and male) off from an original host.And at some point the cells dividing off from the original host becomes a seperate life form.Does the host not have a say?

When my wife becomes pregnant we will never have an abortion!

But I do not believe I am in any position to tell others the same.

Maybe God does,but not me.

WWWTT

[jacee]

When all you gonads grow a uterus and get pregnant unexpectedly, then you'll be entitled to an opinion on abortion.

Until then, stick to your war games where killing innocent people is euphemistically referred to as "collateral damage".

Edited March 20, 2012 by jacee

[Michael Hardner]

A fetus is no more a person than an acorn is a tree

You do know that they're called fetuses until they are born right ?

[Bonam]

Whether a fetus is considered a person or not is irrelevant.

What matters is that the government has no right to forcefully subjugate the freedoms of one person to the needs of another.

[Michael Hardner]

What matters is that the government has no right to forcefully subjugate the freedoms of one person to the needs of another.

Really ? Don't they do this all the time ?

They forcefully subjugate the rights of those to express themselves, to the needs of minorities to be free from hate speech for example. Am I getting tripped up on semantics ?

[bush_cheney2004]

When all you gonads grow a uterus and get pregnant unexpectedly, then you'll be entitled to an opinion on abortion.

No....I have rights to such an opinion regardless of my reproductive organs, unlike abortion, which is not a constitutional right.

Until then, stick to your war games where killing innocent people is euphemistically referred to as "collateral damage".

Sounds fair to me....you kill 'em on the front end, and we'll kill 'em on the back end (retroactive abortion).

[Shady]

Sounds fair to me....you kill 'em on the front end, and we'll kill 'em on the back end (retroactive abortion).

Exactly. I think it'll help people like her to understand better if you describe it as an abortion in the 35th trimester.

[bush_cheney2004]

Americans are much better at killing innocent people.

Yep...Canada just provides more victims!

[Shady]

So why is this information necessary? What pubic good is being served here?

For the same reason any demographic information is compiled. You know, kinda like that long form census you people continue to bitch about.

[bush_cheney2004]

For the same reason any demographic information is compiled. You know, kinda like that long form census you people continue to bitch about.

Touche....you do cut them deep!

[msj]

A fetus is no more a person than an acorn is a tree...

I prefer chicken myself: as in, we eat chickens before they are born and after they are dead.

Everyone I know hates it when I talk about eggs being "liquid chicken."

Anyway, I agree that a fetus isn't a person but just wanted to chat about chickens for some reason....

[Michael Hardner]

Anyway, I agree that a fetus isn't a person ...

Across the board, it isn't a person ? What about at 9 months ?

[msj]

Across the board, it isn't a person ? What about at 9 months ?

What about it? It's not a person.

Which is not to say that I'm happy about an abortion taking place at 37 weeks.

After all, animals aren't people either and we have laws in place to protect them from us.

Canada's law (or lack thereof) deals with abortion quite well in that it allows such judgments to be made by the person who should be making such judgments in the first place.

[Michael Hardner]

What about it? It's not a person.

The idea that the difference between a living person and a non-person is a cut umbilical chord is pretty radical. The support for abortion was always founded on the basis that early term fetuses were not formed humans. It's impossible to say that of a baby at nine months.

The implications would cause a moralist to shudder.

Which is not to say that I'm happy about an abortion taking place at 37 weeks.

What does that mean ? You're unhappy about a non-person being non-killed ?

After all, animals aren't people either and we have laws in place to protect them from us.

Canada's law (or lack thereof) deals with abortion quite well in that it allows such judgments to be made by the person who should be making such judgments in the first place.

I think what I'm realizing is that slogans have supplanted actual considered opinions in the case of abortion.

If you can articulate what a 37 week old fetus is - if not a person - then please do but I wouldn't be surprised if you're unable to stray from liberal orthodoxy. You should try it, though.

[stopstaaron]

Why are you talking about abortions at 9 months? unless the womans life is in danger you're not going to find a doctor

that would provide that abortion.. so lets not talk about that.. its quite ridiculous

[Michael Hardner]

so lets not talk about that.. its quite ridiculous

Why not ? Is it so ridiculous ? I happened to bring it up and fell over someone right away who doesn't believe that a 9 month old fetus is a person.

If this attitude is pervasive, then it could be a problem at some point. The idea that you can't find a doctor to do the operation is small comfort IMO.

[msj]

The idea that the difference between a living person and a non-person is a cut umbilical chord is pretty radical. The support for abortion was always founded on the basis that early term fetuses were not formed humans. It's impossible to say that of a baby at nine months.

The implications would cause a moralist to shudder.

Yet Canada allows abortions up to that point. Sure, they don't happen, or happen very rarely, but the law allows it.

What does that mean ? You're unhappy about a non-person being non-killed ?

It means that I don't think I would be comfortable with having an abortion at 37 weeks (or even at 30 weeks) but since I can't get pregnant I will let those who can get pregnant figure out what they are comfortable with.

It also means that I don't entirely buy the "person" argument - if we can, rightfully, have rights for animals then we should consider rights for fetuses.

IOW, neither animals nor fetuses are people, imo, but certain rights are granted to them nevertheless.

I think what I'm realizing is that slogans have supplanted actual considered opinions in the case of abortion.

If you can articulate what a 37 week old fetus is - if not a person - then please do but I wouldn't be surprised if you're unable to stray from liberal orthodoxy. You should try it, though.

Why the need for this BS, Michael?

My opinion is that the law (lack thereof) in Canada allows for those who don't think of a fetus as a person to do whatever they want at whatever point in time they can find a doctor willing to do the abortion. I think the law works fine.

In most cases abortions are done under 12 weeks so it's not a big deal.

For those comfortable getting/doing an abortion at, say, 20 or 25 or 30 or 35 weeks - well, I'm ok with other people making those decisions even if I would likely be uncomfortable making such decisions for myself if I could be put in such a position.

[Michael Hardner]

Yet Canada allows abortions up to that point. Sure, they don't happen, or happen very rarely, but the law allows it.

That's a different issue.

Whether or not there is a law in place doesn't speak to the morality or ethics of the issue.

It means that I don't think I would be comfortable with having an abortion at 37 weeks (or even at 30 weeks) but since I can't get pregnant I will let those who can get pregnant figure out what they are comfortable with.

It also means that I don't entirely buy the "person" argument - if we can, rightfully, have rights for animals then we should consider rights for fetuses.

Such as ?

Why the need for this BS, Michael?

...

For those comfortable getting/doing an abortion at, say, 20 or 25 or 30 or 35 weeks - well, I'm ok with other people making those decisions even if I would likely be uncomfortable making such decisions for myself if I could be put in such a position.

I do think life starts at conception, however I don't think that terminating a fertilized egg is the same as ending the life of a nine month old fetus, nor would I be comfortable with anybody else ending that life. It doesn't matter to me if the person is in the womb of another person, it's not right and shouldn't be allowed. It makes as much sense to me as allowing people to make their own judgments about fertilized eggs that are only a few weeks old.

[stopstaaron]

The idea that you can't find a doctor to do the operation is small comfort IMO.

Actually that is all the comfort a person should need

[Shady]

I happened to bring it up and fell over someone right away who doesn't believe that a 9 month old fetus is a person.

I agree Michael, it's a rather odd opinion, and completely ignores logic, reason, and especially science. I don't understand that type of mindset, other than not acknowledging these things may help people excuse their radical and unwavering support of limitless abortion. I just don't understand how anyone can look at a 3D ultrasound at say 7 months, listen to the beating heart of the unborn baby, and refer to it as a nothing, or an acorn, or any other pejorative. It's a part of our culture I just don't understand.

[Shady]

I do think life starts at conception, however I don't think that terminating a fertilized egg is the same as ending the life of a nine month old fetus, nor would I be comfortable with anybody else ending that life.

That's exactly my view on the subject as well. terminating a fertilized eggs is completely different than terminating the life of say a 7th, 8th, or 9th month old unborn baby. One has to be completely oblivious to science in order to think that way. Luckily, that way of thinking is in the radical minority of the population.