Cheney cancels speech in Canada due to safety concerns ‎

[bush_cheney2004]

Ya know... we could each cut our defecit by couple thousand bux if we put them on the same flight and went halfers.

No thanks...that's something a typical cheap Canadian would do!

[dre]

Then it's not very Canadian at all! Hell, this "Canadian" forum is hosted in Texas and runs on an American forum engine. Some Canadians apparently spend all their time worrying about what Americans are doing, trolling American politics because their own are so damn boring.

Sure it is! Canadian content can be hosted in Texas, or India, or China. Where the content is hosted has no bearing on your CDS or your trolling.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sure it is! Canadian content can be hosted in Texas, or India, or China. Where the content is hosted has no bearing on your CDS or your trolling.

Canadian "content" is just the manifestation of the identity neurosis that requires obsessing on the Americans in the first place. Let me see if I can find some "American content"....won't be very difficult around here!

[WWWTT]

Ever been in a violent riot?

Gimmie a break buddy,his boddy gaurds would be armed with some kind of hand guns!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Its the CDS... Canada Derangement Syndrome. Believe or not, despite the fact that very few Americans even give Canada a second thought, and could care less about what Canadians do or think, there is a miniscule percentage of the US population that are actually EXTREMELY concerned about it.

I mean... these are Americans that spend a considerable percentage of their lives trolling forums about Canadian politics. Driven. Dedicated. Focused.... Ever watchfull, and ever vigilante. Ready to answer the call if some smug Canadian critisizes anything about the US, or GHASP: uses American statistics as part of an argument!

Somebody has to watch that northern border, and with major conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan tying up large ammounts of resources... AW, and BC were all they could spare

Hey comeon now you are being a little harsh!

But still a good rant!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Then it's not very Canadian at all! Hell, this "Canadian" forum is hosted in Texas and runs on an American forum engine. Some Canadians apparently spend all their time worrying about what Americans are doing, trolling American politics because their own are so damn boring.

Again with the "Canadian forum hosted in the US thing"

Man thats getting real old.

I think its time you start using some new arguments BC

Just a thought.

WWWTT

[DogOnPorch]

Gimmie a break buddy,his boddy gaurds would be armed with some kind of hand guns!

WWWTT

So, that's a 'No' I gather?

[Guest American Woman]

Its the CDS... Canada Derangement Syndrome. Believe or not, despite the fact that very few Americans even give Canada a second thought, and could care less about what Canadians do or think, there is a miniscule percentage of the US population that are actually EXTREMELY concerned about it.

I mean... these are Americans that spend a considerable percentage of their lives trolling forums about Canadian politics. Driven. Dedicated. Focused.... Ever watchfull, and ever vigilante. Ready to answer the call if some smug Canadian critisizes anything about the US, or GHASP: uses American statistics as part of an argument!

Somebody has to watch that northern border, and with major conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan tying up large ammounts of resources... AW, and BC were all they could spare

Once again - "It's better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Seriously. If ever there was any doubt in my mind, this post took care of it. The rest of my post is not directed at you - I'm telling you that just in case you think I'm interested in any further exchange with you. I'm not. Ever.

------------------------

This post exemplifies exactly the mindset I've been referring to. Outside interest in the U.S., complete focus on the U.S., is the norm, and apparently it's all good, but if an American or two happen to have an interest in Canada's role in all of this, we are either obsessed or now apparently suffering from "CDS." (I feel as if my IQ just went down twenty points by simply quoting something that ignorant). BUT. If Americans don't show an interest in Canada, and don't know anything about it, they are ignorant, arrogant, typical Americans.

Anyway. A response such as this simply adds weight to what I am saying. Nothing I said was refuted. Nothing I said can be refuted as it's the truth. So the personal attacks begin.

Canada was secretly involved in Iraq right from the beginning, but focus on the U.S. takes precedence. It's why I have no respect for those who are all over Cheney while not feeling the same disgust towards their own government. There's so much anger over Cheney's lies while nary a peep about their own government's lies. So much concern over the deaths attributed to Bush-Cheney, making it so much easier not to focus on the deaths their government is accountable for - and ironically, that's something that they at least have some say/input in. Yet by far the energy is all directed outward - at the U.S.; which would be bad enough, but we have some here defending Canada. For the very things they are all bent out of shape over regarding the U.S.

Furthermore, as I said, there was nary an ounce of concern over Iraqi deaths when it was at Saddam's hands and likely the concern over Afghan's deaths will end with U.S. withdrawal.

But so many here don't want to discuss that. Oh, no. It's so much easier to blame the U.S. and go one step further and insult me for my interest - that's a bad thing, evidently - and to personally attack me. It becomes all about me. Oh the power of an American voice; an American who has the desire, the gall, to know about, and question, Canada's role in these events.

[Guest American Woman]

Some Canadians? I guess you could say that……….Our current CDS was more than just “along for the ride” though………Ole Walt has quite the “record” and in turn, respect from the troops and his leadership style was more “leading from the front” then other CDS past, whom appeared to rely more on “witty sound bites” and being a political eunuch.

General Natynczyk was the deputy Commander of III Corps……..Second in command of over 30k troops…….hardly something to sneeze at………..And Canadian ships and Auroras took part in Operation Apollo, in the Persian Gulf, concurrently with Operation Iraqi Freedom……..hardly a fluke.

Exactly. Canada was involved in Iraq as the government was saying it wasn't, and at the same time increased it's military operation in Afghanistan to free up American troops for Iraq. I honestly now believe that the Canadian government gave all that it could to Iraq considering the military resources that were in Afghanistan. So the fact remains that Canada was involved in Iraq, and that apparently is just too much for some Canadians to handle - so they bury their heads in the sand and save their outrage for the U.S.

As for this event, it would have been interesting to hear what he had to say (perhaps he would have even spoke of Canada's involvement), regardless of how one feels about him. From what I've read, about 5,0000 people had purchased tickets, so that's 5,000 who will now never have the opportunity to hear him, question him. I honestly don't know what the protesters think they have accomplished by silencing him.

[DogOnPorch]

I honestly don't know what the protesters think they have accomplished by silencing him.

Victory for their free speech.

[Guest American Woman]

Victory for their free speech.

Ironic, eh? Not that their "speech" had anything to do with his decision, but most likely they won't see it that way.

[DogOnPorch]

Ironic, eh? Not that their "speech" had anything to do with his decision, but most likely they won't see it that way.

We live in a world of opinions. Not facts. More opinions than yours = the truth.

[Moonlight Graham]

Oh, puleeze. Your government knew that the UN wasn't sanctioning the war. Your government knew all it needed to know. I would be embarrassed to use that excuse if I were a Canadian. Chretien was publicly all about criticizing the U.S. - and now you want me to believe that Canada's involvement was because it believed Bush-Cheney et al? My God. You all talked about how stupid the American public was for believing the WMD claims - and now you say the Canadian government was taken in by it?? It's exactly this type of mindset that I don't understand at all - except it allows you to keep up the pretense of the moral high road.

I notice how you are suddenly focused all on Iraq now, while the previous comments were about Iraq and Afghanistan. This is just another way of focusing on the U.S. and not holding your own country to the same accountability. Switch the talk to Iraq, and Canada and Afghanistan are conveniently forgotten.

Since you are so concerned about Bush/Cheney/Rummy {sic} getting their comeuppance, you must be thrilled that Saddam is dead. You do realize many, many Iraqis were dying at his hand, right? Those deaths are just as upsetting, right?

At any rate, I'll start having respect for all the outrage over the U.S. when y'all start holding your own country, your own government, to the same accountability - and when the upset masses are just as upset over deaths that have nothing to do with the U.S.; and while you're at it, you might want to try holding your commonwealth nations to the same standards as the U.S. - and that includes the nation that provides your head of state.

Oh for Pete's sake, more of the same AW defensive nonsense, getting your back up like a porcupine when a Canadian criticizes the US. Who cares about the "moral high road". Your government killed hundreds of thousands of people based on lies. Deal with it. Expect to get a little heat when that happens. And no, I'm not glad Saddam is dead, but I'm glad he's out of power.

I don't care if you have any respect for my or others' outrage. I'm going to criticize anyone and any government I choose and there's nothing you or BC's or anyone else's whining can do to stop that.

[bush_cheney2004]

Again with the "Canadian forum hosted in the US thing"

Man thats getting real old.

I think its time you start using some new arguments BC

Just a thought.

No, as it is a very effective argument and just one manifestation of what we can see around here. After all the anti-American ranting and raving, we find that the very existence of this forum has American products and services at its base. The irony is palpable.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I don't care if you have any respect for my or others' outrage. I'm going to criticize anyone and any government I choose and there's nothing you or BC's or anyone else's whining can do to stop that.

Excellent, as that makes for more fun around here! Frankly, I'd like VP Cheney to go to Canada and divulge in a very public format just how complicit Canada is/was in such things so that the rubes would stop living in their innocent dreamland.

[bleeding heart]

So the fact remains that Canada was involved in Iraq, and that apparently is just too much for some Canadians to handle - so they bury their heads in the sand and save their outrage for the U.S.

It's not too much for them to handle; they only need to get theri heads around it and look at the way our nation behaves with a little more clarity. The initial denial will eventually go away (for most people...at least I hope so) once they've gotten used to the critiques.

So yes, Canada was involved; there was naval involvement, there was airspace involvement (you don't allow a country to use your airspace for peripheral purposes of a war you oppose, logically...therefore, Canada did not oppose the war).

The same was true of an earlier catastrophic US war which "Canada opposed": Vietnam. We were munitions suppliers....so how could it be that we "opposed" the war?

Well, we didn't.

Once folks get their heads around Canada's actual global positions, then they can criticize it properly (or support it, if that's their stance) with out the denials.

It takes time. And it won't happen for everybody, even given decades opf explicit knowledge and demonstrable proofs.

To this day, the number of Canadains, British, and Americans who can admit that their countries have been explicitly and absolutely complicit in massive terrorism--worse than al-Queda's in terms of human effects--remains a plurality, at best, if not a very distinct minority.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Once folks get their heads around Canada's actual global positions, then they can criticize it properly (or support it, if that's their stance) with out the denials.

It takes time. And it won't happen for everybody, even given decades opf explicit knowledge and demonstrable proofs.

It has been explained to me that Canada needs the Man Behind the Curtain, at least politically. The confederation is not bound tight enough to withstand yet more internal conflict given existing regional and cultural stresses. This makes sense at the macro level, but is not really practical given today's media torrents and economic relationships.

[bleeding heart]

It has been explained to me that Canada needs the Man Behind the Curtain, at least politically. The confederation is not bound tight enough to withstand yet more internal conflict given existing regional and cultural stresses. This makes sense at the macro level, but is not really practical given today's media torrents and economic relationships.

Yeah. I like the idea (to clarify: I find it interesting in, as you say, a macro kind of way). But the centre cannot hold, as wise Irishman once pointed out.

I don't think it would do any damage to the Confederation, at all. And if the Truth does do damage, then the damage is necessary anyway.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I don't think it would do any damage to the Confederation, at all. And if the Truth does do damage, then the damage is necessary anyway.

Yes, that is the healthiest perspective, but as you said, some are not ready for that reality. They simply do not want to know. That's why the Somalia Affair was such a crushing shame....no longer could such things be ignored in purposeful ignorance.

Dick Cheney actually represents the deal with the Devil that Canada has made in the past, and continues to make. It is hard for some to reconcile that.

Edited March 24, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[bleeding heart]

Yes, that is the healthiest perspective, but as you said, some are not ready for that reality. They simply do not want to know. That's why the Somalia Affair was such a crushing shame....no longer could such things be ignored in purposeful ignorance.

You're right, that's exactly why the Somalia Affair was as big as it was.

But I can't help thinking that the tide is going to turn, for personal reasons:

A long-time Lefty with an inherited belief in the Most Moral Country thesis, I underwent a very rapid re-evaluation: from, "Canada doesn't behave that way,"...to "yes, ok, fine, Canada too, yes, yes; but let's remain focused on the real baddies to the South"...to, "complete nonsense," in one poster's vernacular; I simply grew impatient with the blinkered view.

This all happened between, say, late 2001 and late 2002, maybe, give or take. Now, let's assume for the sake of argument that I'm not a special case with an elevated insight into the world (and the posters who remember me as "bloodyminded" will have little difficulty in accepting my self-effacing self-assessment on this score). If I can do it, so can others; we're not talking about achieving riches or winning a gold medal, after all. Basic and simple logic applied to elementary thought experiments is all it takes. It's an easy enough transition, once a person consciously decides to open the mind a little.

[bush_cheney2004]

You're right, that's exactly why the Somalia Affair was as big as it was.

That's just how I interpreted the gut level reaction that I saw at the time, and that was just in print media. It represented a loss of innocence.

A long-time Lefty with an inherited belief in the Most Moral Country thesis, I underwent a very rapid re-evaluation: from, "Canada doesn't behave that way,"...to "yes, ok, fine, Canada too, yes, yes; but let's remain focused on the real baddies to the South"...to, "complete nonsense," in one poster's vernacular; I simply grew impatient with the blinkered view.

That does work on a very superficial level...Canada and many other nations including the "baddies to the south" have progressed from very egregious domestic and foreign policy actions, but ultimately, the core projection of power for economic interests transcends the best of intentions. Hence my signature byline.

This all happened between, say, late 2001 and late 2002, maybe, give or take. Now, let's assume for the sake of argument that I'm not a special case with an elevated insight into the world (and the posters who remember me as "bloodyminded" will have little difficulty in accepting my self-effacing self-assessment on this score). If I can do it, so can others; we're not talking about achieving riches or winning a gold medal, after all. Basic and simple logic applied to elementary thought experiments is all it takes. It's an easy enough transition, once a person consciously decides to open the mind a little.

Right....member bloodyminded and I have wrangled about this point in the past, but more about style and degree than the underlying substance of such affairs. Personally, I have more respect for Canadians who wish to fight the good fight from the position of knowing and admitting their own nation's complicity. The ostriches just get angry and bury their heads even deeper.

[stopstaaron]

This is why he cancelled it. So he could recover from surgery

@BreakingNews: Former Vice President Dick Cheney recovering after undergoing heart transplant - Reuters

[cybercoma]

This is why he cancelled it. So he could recover from surgery

@BreakingNews: Former Vice President Dick Cheney recovering after undergoing heart transplant - Reuters

You beat me to it.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is why he cancelled it. So he could recover from surgery

Excellent! Darth Cheney lives on. Maybe he got the heart of a liberal?

[WWWTT]

So, that's a 'No' I gather?

I don't understand,"no" I have not bein in a violent protest or "no" I haven't bein in a violent protest surrounded by a security cartel armed to the teeth and police protection?

WWWTT