Metrication Canada; How is it working?

[cybercoma]

This is still a debate? Yeesh.

[Boges]

That may very well be true, but ingrained usage is hard to buck. It would be more cost-effective if all countries spoke Esperanto. We all know how the search for a universal spoken language ended. Most literature is written in terms of imperial units. I see no good reason to have changed, other than a desire to conform more to Europe than the southern neighbor.

People are still often more familiar with pounds and feet. Inches are often used too. It's not hard to be familiar with both however.

When it comes to speed limits and distance I prefer kms.

I also think short distances is better done in centimetres and milimeters. As opposed to inches.

When it comes to weight I generally use pounds but the conversion is easy.

I don't know anyone that doesn't measure their height and weight in anything but feet and pounds however.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Boges

[Wilber]

That may very well be true, but ingrained usage is hard to buck. It would be more cost-effective if all countries spoke Esperanto. We all know how the search for a universal spoken language ended. Most literature is written in terms of imperial units. I see no good reason to have changed, other than a desire to conform more to Europe than the southern neighbor.

More to conform with the rest of the world than our southern neighbour. The US is almost alone in not using the metric system. It is not ingrained with generations that have been brought up being taught and using the metric system. It comes naturally for them. It's just us old farts who have trouble and even I have come to think of some things in metric.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Wilber

[The_Squid]

What 32 degrees conveys to you is neither here or there. People here understand that 32 is a hot day. Why is that so hard to understand?

Edited February 15, 2014 by The_Squid

[jacee]

Still, does a 32.2 degree day convey the same sense of heat as the old fashioned "90 degree day?"

It does to us!

[TimG]

A "90 degree day?"

90F means nothing to me unless I use an F to C calculator. So I would say no.

[Bonam]

That may very well be true, but ingrained usage is hard to buck. It would be more cost-effective if all countries spoke Esperanto. We all know how the search for a universal spoken language ended. Most literature is written in terms of imperial units. I see no good reason to have changed, other than a desire to conform more to Europe than the southern neighbor.

The trend towards a universal spoken language continues apace. Many lesser spoken languages around the world are dying out, and increasingly the bulk of communication (internet communication, official documents, scientific and technical literature, etc) is conducted in just a few of the most widespread languages. While we are far from getting down to just one language, within another 50 years it is conceivable that only 5-10 languages will be seeing any real usage.

In regards to literature... no, most is not written in imperial units.

The best reason to change is the fundamental fact that the metric system is inherently better suited to doing calculations due to its base 10 nature and its unit definitions, and is far superior for expressing complex units that are utilized in the overwhelming majority of all scientific and technical literature. Good luck doing physics in imperial units.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Bonam

[Wilber]

An exception would be navigation but I think I mentioned that before

Edited February 16, 2014 by Wilber

[On Guard for Thee]

Any pilots following this thread will know of what I speak, if you get an online aviation weather report for an airport you will have the current wind in knots, followed by the visibility in statute miles, followed by the cloud heights in feet followed by the altimiter setting in inches of mercury, followed by the barometric pressure in kilopascals. I almost feel multi lingual having taught myself to be able to inculcate what exactly those numbers all mean. However, I will admit I still have some doubts when I go to the deli and want enough corned beef to make a proper sandwich. I don't know why bu tI still seem to be at the stage where I have to see a hundred grams on the wax paper and then go, no, give me 200.

[eyeball]

An exception would be navigation but I think I mentioned that before

It shouldn't be that hard for navigators to make the switch if they're only plowing around at 7 knots....doing calculations at 27 knots is a little harder especially in limited visibility - the wind wrapping your chart around your face and head at that speed certainly doesn't help. But seriously, who even uses paper charts anymore since the development of decent GPS chart plotters? Just keep the boat in the white and pay special attention when you're in the darker shades of blue that denotes shallower water. Don't forget to look at the radar of course (calibrated in nautical miles only please).

Depths on up-to-date official hydro-graphic charts are shown in meters while the registered draft of a vessel is still in feet. I have to reduce my speed to about 2.5 knots when I'm still a little over a cable from wildlife and keep a 65 foot (registered length) vessel 100 meters away from it. I use at least half a skate (150 fathoms) of buoy line when setting out fishing gear in 250 meters of water.

Thinking in and switching between three different modes in a dynamic three dimensional world gives me more ways of looking at and fixing the position of things when I'm on the move.

[Wilber]

The nautical mile is not just a number, it is one minute of latitude measured at the equator. Unlike the statute mile or meter, it is not just an arbitrary number and actually makes navigation easier. Blindly following a GPS plot without even checking your position or course on a chart is not navigstion.

[eyeball]

Maybe not when following a great circle route around the Pacific Ocean or where satellite coverage is limited but when navigating in close to a shallow rocky coastline at 25 knots a GPS plotter is almost as indispensable if not as accurate as local knowledge. There is just no way a human can navigate fast enough to keep up to their speed over the ground in tight quarters at high speed, notwithstanding Capt. Marko Ramius I guess.

Given it's loaded with an accurate up-to-date chart and well connected a good receiver most modern plotters are accurate to within 15 meters and often less. I suppose if the satellites suddenly all fell out of the sky you'd have to slow down and drag out the dividers and parallel rulers...I think I've still got a set of these somewhere although I haven't used them since I passed my certification exams.

In any case the art of navigating is knowing where you're not.

[Wilber]

All navigation whether it is GPS or other type of area navigation, celestial or dead reckoning is based on knowing where you are, the rest is just software, whether it is a computer program or a chart. If you don't know where you are, you are screwed. All systems determine where they are on the earths surface in terms of latitude and longitude. Unless you can find a better way than that, the only measure that makes sense is the nautical mile.

[bush_cheney2004]

All navigation whether it is GPS or other type of area navigation, celestial or dead reckoning is based on knowing where you are, the rest is just software, whether it is a computer program or a chart.

Yes....the "knowing where you are" part is called a "fix", from which the navigation plot can be derived with known and unknown sensor data. Inertial measurement guidance systems approached external fix accuracies several decades ago, and many were developed without "metrication".

[On Guard for Thee]

The nautical mile is not just a number, it is one minute of latitude measured at the equator. Unlike the statute mile or meter, it is not just an arbitrary number and actually makes navigation easier. Blindly following a GPS plot without even checking your position or course on a chart is not navigstion.

A nautical mile is a minute of arc anywhere on the earths surface, not just at the equator. and how is a pilot flying in darkness and in cloud over teh mid atlantic supposed to check his position on a chart?

[Wilber]

A nautical mile is a minute of arc anywhere on the earths surface, not just at the equator. and how is a pilot flying in darkness and in cloud over teh mid atlantic supposed to check his position on a chart?

The equator is used because the earth is not a perfect sphere. It bulges at the equator because of the earths rotation so the distance between parallels decreases slightly as it gets closer to the poles. It isn't a great amount but the equatorial distance is used as the standard for the nautical mile.

Before area nav systems the pilot would have to fly headings given by his navigator who would dead recon between position fixes he was able to get using the sun or stars. An area nav system such as GPS uses satellites to establish the aircraft's position. Area nav systems like IRS or INS are programmed by the crew with the aircraft's present position while it is parked on the ground. It then uses gyros and accelerometers to sense motion and continually update the aircraft's position by giving that info to its computer. They can also use ground stations to update the computer when available. The pilot can always check his position on a chart because the computer continually gives him his position in latitude and longitude and the course it is flying. It is up to him to program the proper course, make sure the aircraft is where it should be and is flying on the course it is supposed to.

Because there is little radar coverage on oceanic flights, air traffic control relies on regular position reports from aircraft in order to maintain safe separation between aircraft.

[On Guard for Thee]

The equator is used because the earth is not a perfect sphere. It bulges at the equator because of the earths rotation so the distance between parallels decreases slightly as it gets closer to the poles. It isn't a great amount but the equatorial distance is used as the standard for the nautical mile.

Before area nav systems the pilot would have to fly headings given by his navigator who would dead recon between position fixes he was able to get using the sun or stars. An area nav system such as GPS uses satellites to establish the aircraft's position. Area nav systems like IRS or INS are programmed by the crew with the aircraft's present position while it is parked on the ground. It then uses gyros and accelerometers to sense motion and continually update the aircraft's position by giving that info to its computer. They can also use ground stations to update the computer when available. The pilot can always check his position on a chart because the computer continually gives him his position in latitude and longitude and the course it is flying. It is up to him to program the proper course, make sure the aircraft is where it should be and is flying on the course it is supposed to.

Because there is little radar coverage on oceanic flights, air traffic control relies on regular position reports from aircraft in order to maintain safe separation between aircraft.

It's about 50 nm difference between the equator and pole to pole. And I've been navigating by maps, vlf/omega, vor, adf, and gps for about 40 years. I think I know how they work.

[Wilber]

It's about 50 nm difference between the equator and pole to pole.

Granted it makes little difference from a practical point of view but a unit of measurement can only be based on one thing.

And I've been navigating by maps, vlf/omega, vor, adf, and gps for about 40 years. I think I know how they work.

I was just trying to answer a question. If you already knew, why did you ask?

[On Guard for Thee]

Granted it makes little difference from a practical point of view but a unit of measurement can only be based on one thing.

I was just trying to answer a question. If you already knew, why did you ask?

Apologies, I didn't mean to give that impression.

[Wilber]

Apologies, I didn't mean to give that impression.

No problem.

[Wilber]

I had very limited exposure to Omega, what did you think of it?

[On Guard for Thee]

I had very limited exposure to Omega, what did you think of it?

Well, here is the funny thing about Omega, at least in my history. It worked wonderfully well so long as the wx was good. I was in very cold air and with rotor blades whirling around. Apparently the friction between them and any sort of moisture, especially rime, caused static that messed the whole business up. Other than that it worked great.

[On Guard for Thee]

I must admit, I do prefer gps. I hark back to the days when we couldn't even spell that. (sorry. bad joke)

I've done it a few times since but I must say the first time, on a ferry trip crossing the equator watching the gps countdown, hit zero, switch from "N" to "S" and start counting up was a bit of a hit.

[On Guard for Thee]

I must admit, I do prefer gps. I hark back to the days when we couldn't even spell that. (sorry. bad joke)

I've done it a few times since but I must say the first time, on a ferry trip crossing the equator watching the gps countdown, hit zero, switch from "N" to "S" and start counting up was a bit of a hit.

I haven't been around a flight school lately, do they still teach the basics with maps and rulers and protractors?

[eyeball]

They do at boat school although some now also offer simulated electronic navigation to teach all the latest bells and whistles. Other than for the purpose of taking a course or passing an exam I can't think of anyone who uses paper maps, dividers or rulers in the real world anymore. You see it in the real world too as evidenced by the number of vessels in tight little places we never ever used to see boats anchored or making way. There certainly aren't very many secret fishing spots left either.

I started learning how to navigate the coast using landmarks - lining up mountain peaks and valley's like gunsights, Loran A and C, old smelly paper sounders and simply bouncing the lead off the bottom from time to time.