Metrication Canada; How is it working?

[jbg]

As I understand Canada has gone metric some time ago in its system of weights and measurements. I wonder how the changeover has been carried out as one of Canada's neighbours is not really keen on the metric system at all.

In Grade 4, in the U.S. we were taught metric, since we were told it was coming. This was the 1966-7 school year. I'm still waiting. And I wonder if Mr. D'Amico, my math/science teacher, still thinks it's coming.

[WWWTT]

JW, this is serious business! Once BC2004 points us to the offending posts in this thread, the ones that rankled his ultra-sensitivities and sent him off on a googly marathon, we'll have a measurable benchmark (Metric preferred, possibly Imperial). We need to get to the bottom of this, dagnabit!

lol!

[bush_cheney2004]

...and then there is this:

[bush_cheney2004]

More non-metric fun from CanadianGirlsTalk:

[-TSS-]

As a certain poster bumped this thread I can as well ask about another thing regarding weights and measures. Namely shoe-sizes. Do you in Canada have the UK system of shoe sizes, 10,11,12 etc? we in Europe have 40,41,42, etc.

My shoe size is 47 and it's extremely difficult to find shoes that size from stores. They always end at 46.

[bush_cheney2004]

Do you in Canada have the UK system of shoe sizes, 10,11,12 etc? we in Europe have 40,41,42, etc.

Already covered in this post:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=20412&view=findpost&p=766307

[lukin]

Already covered in this post:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=20412&view=findpost&p=766307

How many meters does it take to get a first down in the CFL?

[bush_cheney2004]

How many meters does it take to get a first down in the CFL?

From the CFL Offical Site:

SECTION 1 – FIRST DOWNS

A first down shall be recorded whenever the

yardsticks

are ordered forward by the officials on a sequence of downs, whenever a touchdown is scored on an offensive play from scrimmage, and whenever a gain from scrimmage is made on the last play in a half that would have resulted in a first down being awarded had time not run out. However a first down shall not be awarded when a team first gains possession as a result of a kick, a fumble, a pass interception or a penalty.

First downs gained are subdivided to show the type of play responsible for the gain, as follows:

By Rushing – means that the play that resulted in a new first down being awarded was a rushing play, even though a different type of play may have accounted for most of the

yardage

in that series of downs.

By Passing – means that the play that resulted in a new first down being awarded was a passing play, even though a different type of play may have accounted for most of the

yardage

in that series of downs.

By Penalty – means that the

yardsticks

were ordered forward as a result of the application of penalty.

[Sa'adoni]

yeah the game was invented before 1968...

[dre]

yeah the game was invented before 1968...

[dlkenny]

Well, here's a different take on this. I work in the oilfield in Northern Alberta and a few years ago a very close coworker of mine was on location while someone was operating a Nitrogen Gas pump. There was a very serious explosion which killed one person and severely injured two others. My coworker explained that the ambiguity caused by having two different measurement systems (imperial and metric) was the primary reason for the explosion. An N2 pump has many gauges, several of which show pressures in various components in the unit, and some which show the pressures on the well and the treating iron.

The pump works by drawing liquid nitrogen from a holding tank using a boost pump which then pushes the product to a high pressure pump. That pump in turn pushes the liquid N2 through a series of heat exchangers which gasefy the liquid (expanding it 692 times) and then the gaseous N2 can be discharged and used to do a great number of things. (N2 is inherently stable and will not allow combustion, making it ideal for use in the production of oil and gas) On this particular unit the boost pump pressure gauge was in pounds per square inch (psi), the treating iron pressure tolerances were indicated in Megapascals (MPa) and the treating iron pressure indicator in the unit was set to Kilopascals (KPa) because the particular well they were working on had a pressure tolerance indicated in KPa. As the job went forward there was some confusion over what was correct and they attempted to push 1000 times the allowable pressure onto the wellhead which resulted in a very serious explosion.

It seems to me that for many things like temperature and speed the change only causes minor inconveniences like burnt food in the oven and having to watch the inside gauge in the car when driving in the US, but for industrial uses it clearly must be one or the other and there should be a universal standard. In the case of the N2 pump, it was manufactured in the US so all of it's components were configured in PSI but it was being used in Canada where the jobs are done in MPa.

The aviation industry uses one system for safety reasons and my opinion is that this is the correct thing to do. If the whole world has gone metric then it's time the US goes metric too, if the whole world wants to do as the US does then the whole world needs to be on the imperial system. It is simply foolish and dangerous to have both.

Edited March 5, 2012 by dlkenny

[dlkenny]

SI is not the system that we use. They have several units in common, but also several differences.

Actually the old system is based on an entirely different way of counting called the duodecimal system. At one time everything was measured in 12s (or virtually everything), that's why we have 12 eggs in a carton (and has a name - a dozen), why the number 144 has a name (gross), why there's 12 inches in a foot, why there's 36 inches in a yard (an even 3 times 12), why we round so many things to the closest factor of 12 (we recognize 3's, 6',s and 12's visually). Did you know that you can count to 60 by counting the bones in your hand? 60 of course is 12 multiplied by 5.

At some point the world stopped counting in 12s and started counting in 10's, but it took just as long for the world to realize how silly it is to have units of measurement in systems of 12 while counting in blocks of 10. We are just getting to that now with the popularization of the metric system. If you think about it, with a 12 digit system (if we had separate mononumeric symbols for the numbers 10 and 11) the old system makes more sense: 3 is a quarter, 4 is a 3rd, 6 is half, 8 is two thirds, 9 is three quarters etc...the system makes sense to use fractions because the common fractions refer to whole numbers.

In metric we use decimals because it makes more sense. Using imperial measure while counting in 10's is silly. 1/3rd of 10 is 3.3333333333.... and a quarter is 2.5, which seems simple enough until you're doing an engineering problem or science problem, when too many significant digits get rounded off. Start adding and subtracting those and it really is silly and it's why the metric system was created.

The metric system is based on the earth's dimensions and water. The meter is defined as 1/40,000,000th of the way around 1 meridian on earth. (It's actually 1/40,007,836 because of an error in calculation many years ago, which amounts to about 1/15th of a millimeter for each meter measured.) One millilitre is also one cubic centimeter, which is 100 cubic millimeters, one litre is 1000 millilitres and weighs 1 kilogram. The celsius scale also is the temperature difference between the freezing and thawing of water at standard atmospheric pressure divided into 100 equal degrees. So water freezes at 0C and boils at 100C.

As long as we count 0 through 9 before going to a polynumeral (more than 1 digit) then the old system is just silly and the metric system is simpler and makes far more sense.

Edited March 5, 2012 by dlkenny

[Evening Star]

Hm? Imperial measurements are not consistently duodecimal at all. There are 16 ounces in a pound for instance. And while 180 (the number of degrees F from freezing to boiling) is a multiple of 12, it's really a bit weak to use 15*12 instead of 12^2 if you want a duodecimal system (and that wasn't Fahrenheit's reasoning afaik). There are 8 pints in a gallon. 5280 (the number of feet in a mile) is 440*12 but again, that's not really a sensible duodecimal multiple. A mile is 1760 yards, which does not divide evenly by 12.

Actually the old system is based on an entirely different way of counting called the duodecimal system. At one time everything was measured in 12s (or virtually everything), that's why we have 12 eggs in a carton (and has a name - a dozen), why the number 144 has a name (gross), why there's 12 inches in a foot, why there's 36 inches in a yard (an even 3 times 12), why we round so many things to the closest factor of 12 (we recognize 3's, 6',s and 12's visually). Did you know that you can count to 60 by counting the bones in your hand? 60 of course is 12 multiplied by 5.

At some point the world stopped counting in 12s and started counting in 10's, but it took just as long for the world to realize how silly it is to have units of measurement in systems of 12 while counting in blocks of 10. We are just getting to that now with the popularization of the metric system. If you think about it, with a 12 digit system (if we had separate mononumeric symbols for the numbers 10 and 11) the old system makes more sense: 3 is a quarter, 4 is a 3rd, 6 is half, 8 is two thirds, 9 is three quarters etc...the system makes sense to use fractions because the common fractions refer to whole numbers.

In metric we use decimals because it makes more sense. Using imperial measure while counting in 10's is silly. 1/3rd of 10 is 3.3333333333.... and a quarter is 2.5, which seems simple enough until you're doing an engineering problem or science problem, when too many significant digits get rounded off. Start adding and subtracting those and it really is silly and it's why the metric system was created.

The metric system is based on the earth's dimensions and water. The meter is defined as 1/40,000,000th of the way around 1 meridian on earth. (It's actually 1/40,007,836 because of an error in calculation many years ago, which amounts to about 1/15th of a millimeter for each meter measured.) One millilitre is also one cubic centimeter, which is 100 cubic millimeters, one litre is 1000 millilitres and weighs 1 kilogram. The celsius scale also is the temperature difference between the freezing and thawing of water at standard atmospheric pressure divided into 100 equal degrees. So water freezes at 0C and boils at 100C.

As long as we count 0 through 9 before going to a polynumeral (more than 1 digit) then the old system is just silly and the metric system is simpler and makes far more sense.

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually the old system is based on an entirely different way of counting called the duodecimal system....

What a splendid explanation...and consistent with my grade school education.

Nobody complained about octal or hexadecimal used in their software and hardware for over 40 years either.

[dlkenny]

Hm? Imperial measurements are not consistently duodecimal at all. There are 16 ounces in a pound for instance. And while 180 (the number of degrees F from freezing to boiling) is a multiple of 12, it's really a bit weak to use 15*12 instead of 12^2 if you want a duodecimal system (and that wasn't Fahrenheit's reasoning afaik). There are 8 pints in a gallon. 5280 (the number of feet in a mile) is 440*12 but again, that's not really a sensible duodecimal multiple. A mile is 1760 yards, which does not divide evenly by 12.

Well, 16 does work on Duodecimal quite well, its an even 1 & 1/3rd. The farenheit scale you're right wasn't developed in any way regarding the duodecimal system. The 8 pints in a gallon though, 8 is 2/3rds of 12, its a round number. The mile is an anomaly though and if you look at the history has been changed a number of times. The imperial system was developed from duodecimal, just like the old monetary system in Great Britain. 12 pence in a shilling, 20 shillings in a pound (1 2/3rds). In any case, that's the explanation I was given and it seems to make sense.

[Guest Wesam Shah]

Gold and silver price in all countries including Canada

http://www.silvergoldpricetoday.com/en/

[Tilter]

Well, here's a different take on this. I work in the oilfield in Northern Alberta and a few years ago a very close coworker of mine was on location while someone was operating a Nitrogen Gas pump. There was a very serious explosion which killed one person and severely injured two others. My coworker explained that the ambiguity caused by having two different measurement systems (imperial and metric) was the primary reason for the explosion. An N2 pump has many gauges, several of which show pressures in various components in the unit, and some which show the pressures on the well and the treating iron.

The pump works by drawing liquid nitrogen from a holding tank using a boost pump which then pushes the product to a high pressure pump. That pump in turn pushes the liquid N2 through a series of heat exchangers which gasefy the liquid (expanding it 692 times) and then the gaseous N2 can be discharged and used to do a great number of things. (N2 is inherently stable and will not allow combustion, making it ideal for use in the production of oil and gas) On this particular unit the boost pump pressure gauge was in pounds per square inch (psi), the treating iron pressure tolerances were indicated in Megapascals (MPa) and the treating iron pressure indicator in the unit was set to Kilopascals (KPa) because the particular well they were working on had a pressure tolerance indicated in KPa. As the job went forward there was some confusion over what was correct and they attempted to push 1000 times the allowable pressure onto the wellhead which resulted in a very serious explosion.

It seems to me that for many things like temperature and speed the change only causes minor inconveniences like burnt food in the oven and having to watch the inside gauge in the car when driving in the US, but for industrial uses it clearly must be one or the other and there should be a universal standard. In the case of the N2 pump, it was manufactured in the US so all of it's components were configured in PSI but it was being used in Canada where the jobs are done in MPa.

The aviation industry uses one system for safety reasons and my opinion is that this is the correct thing to do. If the whole world has gone metric then it's time the US goes metric too, if the whole world wants to do as the US does then the whole world needs to be on the imperial system. It is simply foolish and dangerous to have both.

The USA does not use the Imperial system but rather it's own form of it. The Scientific, medical, Army & Airforce use Metric making them the only sane Americans. I don't know what system the Navy uses as they are used to saying fathoms, knots, avast & belay, yardarm & all those other nautical inaccuracies so they are likely stuck with the Nautical system---

[Tilter]

The USA does not use the Imperial system but rather it's own form of it. They disagree with the English (in most matters) so their gallon is about 7/10ths as accurate as the imperial system which is about as accurate as King Henry's big toe. It's not known exactly which king's toe was measured--- (I guess we'll have to ask those 2 penis specialists in the videos (( I wonder where they get their facts)))or whether or not he had gout at the time of measurement)

The Scientific, medical, Army & Airforce use Metric making them the only sane Americans. I don't know what system the Navy uses as they are used to saying fathoms, knots, avast & belay, yardarm & all those other nautical inaccuracies so they are likely stuck with the Nautical system---

[Tilter]

The US has gone metric to some degree when it has had to. The US auto industry has been using metric hardware for years. Tires are the most interesting. Wheel diameters and widths are given in inches while tire widths are in millimeters.

Some things will never be metric like units used for navigation. Meters and KPH are only used in the east block and China. The "West" including the rest of Europe and the Asia, use feet and Knots.

The USA does not use the Imperial system but rather it's own form of it. They disagree with the English (in most matters) so their gallon is about 7/10ths as accurate as the imperial system which is about as accurate as King Henry's big toe. It's not known exactly which king's toe was measured--- (I guess we'll have to ask those 2 penis specialists in the videos (( I wonder where they get their facts)))or whether or not he had gout at the time of measurement)

The Scientific, medical, Army & Airforce use Metric making them the only sane Americans. I don't know what system the Navy uses as they are used to saying fathoms, knots, avast & belay, yardarm & all those other nautical inaccuracies so they are likely stuck with the Nautical system---

[Wilber]

The USA does not use the Imperial system but rather it's own form of it. They disagree with the English (in most matters) so their gallon is about 7/10ths as accurate as the imperial system which is about as accurate as King Henry's big toe. It's not known exactly which king's toe was measured--- (I guess we'll have to ask those 2 penis specialists in the videos (( I wonder where they get their facts)))or whether or not he had gout at the time of measurement)

The Scientific, medical, Army & Airforce use Metric making them the only sane Americans. I don't know what system the Navy uses as they are used to saying fathoms, knots, avast & belay, yardarm & all those other nautical inaccuracies so they are likely stuck with the Nautical system---

Metric units are also as arbitrary as King Henry's big toe. What makes them different is that they are all related in multiples of ten. One nautical mile is equal to one minute of latitude. One degree of latitude is equal to 60 nautical miles. As long as a circle is divided into 360 degrees, the knot is the only unit that makes sense for navigation. Want to find the distance between two places on a globe? Stretch a string between them and then lay the string along a meridian. Multiply the number of degrees of latitude it crosses by sixty and you have your answer in nautical miles. A kilometer is equal to what exactly in our physical universe?

Edited March 28, 2012 by Wilber

[The_Squid]

Everyone uses a mix of measures. Younger people use more metric.

It works great. No issues.

[Peter F]

... but for industrial uses it clearly must be one or the other and there should be a universal standard. In the case of the N2 pump, it was manufactured in the US so all of it's components were configured in PSI but it was being used in Canada where the jobs are done in MPa. ... It is simply foolish and dangerous to have both.

I hope you're still not working for that idiot company

[jbg]

What about temperatures? Canada of all countries is a perfect example how the fahrenheit-degree is just rubbish. For the very practical reasons when it is cold it is cleverer to say the temperature is minus something than some 10-15 degrees according to the F-scale.

Still, does a 32.2 degree day convey the same sense of heat as the old fashioned "90 degree day?"

[Boges]

The metric system makes more sense. Ditto with Celsius.

[jbg]

The metric system makes more sense. Ditto with Celsius.

That may very well be true, but ingrained usage is hard to buck. It would be more cost-effective if all countries spoke Esperanto. We all know how the search for a universal spoken language ended. Most literature is written in terms of imperial units. I see no good reason to have changed, other than a desire to conform more to Europe than the southern neighbor.