.

[Michael Hardner]

already covered - no need for a new thread... see here:

Threads will be merged...

[cybercoma]

The Conservatives were so interested in finding out the details about who accessed CIMS and conducted illegal calls to misdirect voters that they stopped co-operating with Elections Canada and designed legislation to strip EC of its investigative powers.

Nothing suspicious here at all.

[PIK]

The Conservatives were so interested in finding out the details about who accessed CIMS and conducted illegal calls to misdirect voters that they stopped co-operating with Elections Canada and designed legislation to strip EC of its investigative powers.

Nothing suspicious here at all.

Election canada wants the power to force people to testify, guess what ,I am pretty sure the charter does not allow that .And I don't think police have that power either.

[waldo]

Election canada wants the power to force people to testify, guess what ,I am pretty sure the charter does not allow that .And I don't think police have that power either.

no - Elections Canada has asked for the ability to seek a court order compelling witnesses to testify regarding the commission of offences... such as deceptive calls or other forms of election fraud. Even though the timing is ripe, the Harper Conservative "Unfair Elections Act", Bill C-23, does not provide Elections Canada this capability. Tell me 'PIK', why would your favoured Harper Conservatives be so against improving Elections Canada's power to properly investigate possible election fraud?

[Argus]

"likely wouldn't have been different"... oh ya, sure, you betcha! Nothing like "persons of interest" being able to simply choose to not cooperate... choose not provide testimony. Like I said, Elections Canada may as well have provided a simple one-liner: "we found nuthin... cause we weren't allowed to find sumthin!"

You left out this other part.

Had someone purposely tried to mislead voters, "one would have anticipated seeing a single predominant calling number, a constellation of calling numbers, or a pattern with multiple calls into a single electoral district from the same number. There was no such evidence."

[Argus]

no - Elections Canada has asked for the ability to seek a court order compelling witnesses to testify regarding the commission of offences... such as deceptive calls or other forms of election fraud.

The only people who would know about that would be those who did it, which still means you would be trying to compell them to give evidence that would be used against themselves. Which you can't do.

Had someone purposely tried to mislead voters, "one would have anticipated seeing a single predominant calling number, a constellation of calling numbers, or a pattern with multiple calls into a single electoral district from the same number. There was no such evidence."

[guyser]

They invented this whole fake scandal out of thin air

Rob Ford school of Politics.

The media invents all the news!

How utterly pathetic....or wait....yea thats a lie right there ^

And you worry about the lefy lying? Id worry about YOU lying more.

[waldo]

Had someone purposely tried to mislead voters, "one would have anticipated seeing a single predominant calling number, a constellation of calling numbers, or a pattern with multiple calls into a single electoral district from the same number. There was no such evidence."

you can keep repeating this a brazillion times! If a part of your "supposed evidence" ain't there... cause someone won't provide information... won't provide testimony, who is to say the lack of evidence can't be tied to purposeful refusal to provide information that might lead to flushing out that evidence?

[Argus]

you can keep repeating this a brazillion times! If a part of your "supposed evidence" ain't there... cause someone won't provide information... won't provide testimony, who is to say the lack of evidence can't be tied to purposeful refusal to provide information that might lead to flushing out that evidence?

What are people going to testify about if there's no pattern of calls to begin with? They even went to the call center and listened to recordings of calls. Most gave accurate information, a few gave wrong addresses. The lists being used were not entirely accurate for a variety of reasons. No big conspiracy here.

[PIK]

Rob Ford school of Politics.

The media invents all the news!

How utterly pathetic....or wait....yea thats a lie right there ^

And you worry about the lefy lying? Id worry about YOU lying more.

They do. Anything to make the conservatives look bad , runs in newpaper weeks at a time. Robo calls proves how biased the media is. They are killing democracy in this country with the constants attacks on one party, the cleanest government we have had in deacdes and that is why they come out with fake scandals followed by fake rage. Out of 40000 complaints 39350 were people just complaining about what they read in a newspaper, but yet the media made it sound like 40000 real complaints. And 3 yrs to it and how many millions and for what?

[guyser]

They do. Anything to make the conservatives look bad , runs in newpaper weeks at a time. Robo calls proves how biased the media is. They are killing democracy in this country with the constants attacks on one party, the cleanest government we have had in deacdes

And you good sir I thank for the laugh on a Friday afternoon.

That was pretty funny, not a shred of truth to it really, but is was funny so thanks.

So yea...I take it you ascribe to the Rob Ford School Of Journalism...big surprise.

Dust under that bed tonight

[cindi]

They do. Anything to make the conservatives look bad , runs in newpaper weeks at a time. Robo calls proves how biased the media is. They are killing democracy in this country with the constants attacks on one party, the cleanest government we have had in deacdes and that is why they come out with fake scandals followed by fake rage. Out of 40000 complaints 39350 were people just complaining about what they read in a newspaper, but yet the media made it sound like 40000 real complaints. And 3 yrs to it and how many millions and for what?

It does look that way doesn't it. As Ezra Levant Tweeted: Robocalls is a scandal. Not for the Tories - for the Media Party. But their professional negligence will go unpunished, almost unmentioned.

I just heard that Mulcair says he is talking to the 10 provinces to bring them onside to abolish the Senate. Now that is fantasy land.

Edited April 25, 2014 by cindi

[guyser]

It does look that way doesn't it.

Not to anyone who can read without partisan blinders it isnt.

As Ezra Levant Tweeted

Theres the problem.

Ezra talking about media issues , thats rich coming from the biggest blowhard there is.

[Keepitsimple]

Check back through this thread and you'll find that the Left supporters saw a conspiracy that led to the office of the Prime Minister - thousands of suppressed voters across Canada that allowed the Conservatives to "steal" the last election. Right supporters on the other hand saw Guelph being a problem and only a few scattered problems through other ridings. But the Left has just never accepted the results of the last election - a democratically elected majority Conservative government. Talk about an attack on democracy!

Ezra Levant goes over the top - but his issues are valid. Months and months of front page coverage of the Robocall "Scandal" - and now? Where's the front page coverage? Yes, the media-party should be ashamed. The data was always there for anyone who had an unbiased eye. We knew about the 40,000 Leadnow complaints a long time ago......the media was disgraceful but as we've all come to know - that struggling industry has to sell their product - and a juicy scandal serves its purpose.

[guyser]

Steal the election? Seriously? No one made that call.

As for Ezra... ...he is wrong to paint the fact that no front page news to trumpet how wrong they may have been.

nor anyone

There is never front page news for anyone being exhonerated.

Not the Star, Globe , NAt'l Post, NYT, WSJ and definitely not the Sun.

[waldo]

As Ezra Levant Tweeted: Robocalls is a scandal. Not for the Tories - for the Media Party. But their professional negligence will go unpunished, almost unmentioned.

Yes, the media-party should be ashamed.

waldo reminder: for Ezrant acolytes, there is a dedicated thread to "get your Media Party Ya-Ya's Out" - see here: ... you're welcome.

[waldo]

What are people going to testify about if there's no pattern of calls to begin with? They even went to the call center and listened to recordings of calls. Most gave accurate information, a few gave wrong addresses. The lists being used were not entirely accurate for a variety of reasons. No big conspiracy here.

and, for instance, if you didn't have a record of calls available, or it was a suspect/incomplete record... cause 'persons of interest' are refusing to meet/speak with Elections Canada investigators trying to get at those call records... who you gonna call - 'ghostbusters'?

now, in keeping with major back-pedaling announced today, the Harper Conservatives 'Almost Fair But Not Quite There Yet Elections Act', has an intent to create a law that forces those individuals/organizations engaging in robocall activities to register with the CRTC... and present to the CRTC a copy of recordings/scripts used during calls... BUT NOT the data records of the actual calls. Just another half-measure at best - why not force those engaged in robocalls to provide the intended CRTC registry with data records of the actual phone numbers called? Seems like an obvious need/want - yes?

I get a real charge from all this "there was no there, there, after all", talk. Since there's no existing enforcement related to robocall registry/data record keeping/accountability... who is to say all robocall activity was actually investigated and accounted for? I mean, c'mon... if Harper Conservatives and their faithful supporters can put so much certainty into 'Unknown Election Fraud', or 'Unknown Unreported Crime... how are they so sure, so certain, there's not 'Unknown Robocall Activity' that wasn't investigated?

.

Edited April 25, 2014 by waldo

[Bryan]

National Post especially owes all of their readers an apology. They published over 2000 pieces claiming to have evidence of systemic fraud. They lied, plain and simple. An Apology from NP AND the outright firing of Mahar and McGregor is the minimum they should do.

[waldo]

National Post especially owes all of their readers an apology. They published over 2000 pieces claiming to have evidence of systemic fraud. They lied, plain and simple. An Apology from NP AND the outright firing of Mahar and McGregor is the minimum they should do.

lynch em! So... you're quite sure, you're quite certain, there was no 'Unknown Robocall Activity'? You know, kinda like Harper Conservative 'Unknown Voter Fraud', 'Unknown Unreported Crime', etc.?

[Keepitsimple]

Steal the election? Seriously? No one made that call.

Sure they did - day after day we heard from Pat Martin and Charley Angus....Angus was repeating the same garbage right up until the exoneration. Try this on for size as an example:

Robo Gate: Harper Conservatives stole the 2011 election from the NDP

The New Democratic Party (NDP) suggested in a press conference today that the Conservatives rigged the May 2011 federal election against the Bloc Quebecois, NDP and Liberals. Call it election rigging western style. Apparently, RackNine Inc, a Conservative Party-linked firm called 18 key swing ridings and sent opposition voters to false voting stations or incorrectly advised them of changed polling locations.

Outspoken Winnipeg NDP Member of Parliament Pat Martin (pictured) is understandably furious. This is a naked assault on Canadian democracy.

Martin has called the scandal, unraveled by Ottawa Citizen, the “largest electoral fraud in Canadian history.” He’s called on the RCMP to investigate.

Link:http://www.canadianprogressiveworld.com/2012/02/23/robo-gate-harper-conservatives-stole-the-2011-election-from-the-ndp/#.U1r0VUcU_VI

[guyser]

Sure they did - day after day we heard from Pat Martin and Charley Angus....Angus was repeating the same garbage right up until the exoneration. Try this on for size as an example:

Im hoping you tried it on and saw that it didnt fit... nowhere does that article even suggest they stole the election.

I will conceed I could see Martin saying so.....but hes a wing nut of the worst kind.

And further, I thought you referred to posters here having said that.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Guyser2

[Keepitsimple]

Im hoping you tried it on and saw that it didnt fit... nowhere does that article even suggest they stole the election.

I will conceed I could see Martin saying so.....but hes a wing nut of the worst kind.

And further, I thought you referred to posters here having said that.

Don't care what us posters say - we all get a little over the top at times but heck, the NDP - Mulcair, Angus, Martin - they all have said repeatedly that the Conservatives stole the election - and the CBC was only too glad to stick a mike in front of them. Months of front-page coverage and years of accusations followed by what?......a couple of days of weak coverage of the exoneration.

[Keepitsimple]

I've provide a link to the Robocall Report by Yves Cote and reviewed by Louise Charron, a former Supreme Court judge. It's a fairly concise report and really doesn't take much time to go through. When viewed through the lens of this report. the frenzied cries of a national Robocall "conspiracy" leading the Prime Minister's office was once again - completely over the top. Bundled with the Census piffle and Nigel Wright's exoneration and lately, the Fair Elections Act - it all plays to the narrative of an opposition that simply will not accept the results of the last election.

Even at its highest, in instances where the calls could be

traced to someone acting on behalf of a political actor, the evidence usually revealed that the callers

were targeting electors believed to be the party’s own supporters. It would defy logic to infer from

this evidence that the misdirection about poll stations was made with the intention of inducing

electors not to vote. Further, when the geographic locations of the impugned calls outside of

Guelph are considered as a whole, the evidence reveals no discernible pattern of misdirected calls

from which one could reasonably infer an intention or design to prevent electors from voting.

.....skip

In my opinion, this absence of evidence cannot be attributed to any deficiency in the investigation.

The investigative team comprised highly qualified and experienced members. The investigation

was thorough, and conducted in a fair and impartial manner. Each and every complaint was looked

into and followed-up to the extent possible, using all available investigative measures. Additional

information was sought, at times repeatedly, from all potentially relevant actors, including

returning officers, Elections Canada personnel, telephone service providers, telemarketing

providers, and political party representatives. In the more sensitive situations, a protocol was wisely

reached allowing for an independent third party to oversee the gathering of the requested data to

ensure the integrity of the process. Experts were consulted where needed to assist in analysing the

data. In brief, the overall quality of the investigation was excellent.

.....skip

I am unable to say if the result of this investigation might have been different in a world where

none of these investigative challenges existed. My overall sense is that it would not be. As the

investigators rightly concluded, had there been an effort to purposely mislead electors outside

the electoral district of Guelph, one would have anticipated seeing a single predominant calling

number, a constellation of calling numbers, or a pattern with multiple calls into a single electoral

district from the same number. There was no such evidence.

In closing, I wish to thank the Commissioner and his investigative team. Everyone has been very

cooperative and helpful in giving me all the assistance I needed in conducting this review.

The Honourable Louise Charron

Link:https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1147313-robocall-investigation.html

[ironstone]

lynch em! So... you're quite sure, you're quite certain, there was no 'Unknown Robocall Activity'? You know, kinda like Harper Conservative 'Unknown Voter Fraud', 'Unknown Unreported Crime', etc.?

The whole thing was blown way out of proportion by the very left leaning media.Elections Canada hates the Conservatives,and if they couldn't find any hard evidence.....

I have a feeling that we have not heard the last of this story though.Glen McGregor and Stephan Maher will very likely keep on mass producing their drivel.

[cindi]

The whole thing was blown way out of proportion by the very left leaning media.Elections Canada hates the Conservatives,and if they couldn't find any hard evidence.....

I have a feeling that we have not heard the last of this story though.Glen McGregor and Stephan Maher will very likely keep on mass producing their drivel.

Exactly as the report said: “the evidence gathered in the investigation does not lend support to the existence of a conspiracy or conspiracies to interfere with the voting process.”