Kim Jong-Il Dead

[Topaz]

I think the world will chill but be on guard. When you have N.Korea friends being China and Russia and on the S.Korea side, you have the US, which has a very tired military and 14 Trillion debt, the odds are against you for S.Korea. A war in this area would be Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan rolled up with Korean War 1950. The new leader is in his late 20's and only has his sister and hubby as advisors, hopeful one of them would be smart enough to realize the danger of being too aggressive,but again they are very young.

[Wild Bill]

This from someone who got all sweaty about Canada sending half a dozen aircraft to bomb a despot in Libya.

No kidding! It's obvious that once again he's thrown something out without any idea of the factors involved. He really should do the occasional google before putting his foot in his mouth.

It would seem he has no idea of the sheer SIZE of the NK military! Leaving aside any nukes, the sheer numbers of tanks, missiles and infantry with bullets dwarfs anything SK could put up against them. It has been plain as the nose on your face for decades that the real deterrent to NK has never been conventional army but rather the American presence with tactical nukes along the border.

And then to dismiss people dead from one horizon to the other as simply "War is messy!" is possibly the most cold-hearted and callous statement I have heard in years!

And posters on this board attack ME as some kind of cold-hearted 'conservative'! This sort of thinking makes Pol Pot look like Mother Theresa!

[Moonlight Graham]

the most Just wars to fight are the ones with a lot of risk and casualties

What an irrational statement.

Also, did you forget that the other country bordering NK is China? Do you think if SK were to invade NK China would do nothing? If land was up for grabs China would do nothing and let SK take it?

[GostHacked]

What an irrational statement.

Also, did you forget that the other country bordering NK is China? Do you think if SK were to invade NK China would do nothing? If land was up for grabs China would do nothing and let SK take it?

China has already built up on the border with NK. They feared a refugee crisis when they first heard reports of 'Dear Leader' having health issues. But with some cities being completely vacant in China, they could easily be set up in those cities.

Regardless, this won't amount to too much. Leadership has changed hands, and will continue down the path they have been going on for some time to come.

[Wilber]

It would seem he has no idea of the sheer SIZE of the NK military! Leaving aside any nukes, the sheer numbers of tanks, missiles and infantry with bullets dwarfs anything SK could put up against them. It has been plain as the nose on your face for decades that the real deterrent to NK has never been conventional army but rather the American presence with tactical nukes along the border.

The NK army is much larger but the South is no slouch either. It has 650,000 active members and over 3 million reservists.

[olp1fan]

And then to dismiss people dead from one horizon to the other as simply "War is messy!" is possibly the most cold-hearted and callous statement I have heard in years!

And posters on this board attack ME as some kind of cold-hearted 'conservative'! This sort of thinking makes Pol Pot look like Mother Theresa!

War IS messy especially wars that need to be fought!

Iraq & Afghanistan were unnecessary wars .. this war needs to find a conclusion

for the sake of both countries

yes sacrifices would need to be made

But fine, fight little pissant mid east countries for years, have at it

[Post To The Left]

What do you think? reunite the peninsula

The last thing the South Koreans want is to reunite the peninsula. It would totally bankrupt South Korea, based on the German reunification it would take something like 100 billion dollars to do which is totally beyond the scope of South Korean means. Also, the last thing China wants is a US satellite country right on its border. I think both South Korea and China would collude to create a neutral defanged buffer state that would contain the millions of poor, desperate refugees that are waiting to flee that hell hole.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Post To The Left

[olp1fan]

The last thing the South Koreans want is to reunite the peninsula. It would totally bankrupt South Korea, based on the German reunification it would take something like 100 billion dollars to do which is totally beyond the scope of South Korean means. Also, the last thing China wants is a US satellite country right on its border. I think both South Korea and China would collude to create a neutral defanged buffer state that would contain the millions of poor, desperate refugees that are waiting to flee that hell hole.

well as cold and callous as that sounds youre probably right though im sure SKoreans have family in NK

[Post To The Left]

well as cold and callous as that sounds youre probably right though im sure SKoreans have family in NK

There are thousands of families that were split up during the Korean war. I'm sure some sort of policy of family reunification could be set up but South Korea would probably use its military to stop the millions of refugees from streaming South, like how China presently uses its military and police force now to stop and reverse the stream of North Korean refugees that try and escape Korea into China.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Post To The Left

[jbg]

Wow, that's huge news. But ya, his baby-faced replacement doesn't look much better.

His loss is the world's loss. He was a gentle man, a humble man, a good man and a man of his people. He will long be missed.

[jbg]

well as cold and callous as that sounds youre probably right though im sure SKoreans have family in NK

Maybe give those NK people terminal uche?

[Jack Weber]

What do you think? reunite the peninsula

Erm...You do understand that there are treaty's signed by both the US and China that would involve both of those countries coming in on the opposite sides of any conflict on the Korean Penninsula,right?

[dre]

Erm...You do understand that there are treaty's signed by both the US and China that would involve both of those countries coming in on the opposite sides of any conflict on the Korean Penninsula,right?

Not to mention the largest artillary battery in human history thats pointed at the South Korean capital, and the fact the logistically SK could not afford to take responsibility for the impoverished north.

[Jack Weber]

Not to mention the largest artillary battery in human history thats pointed at the South Korean capital, and the fact the logistically SK could not afford to take responsibility for the impoverished north.

Yeah...I'm thinking there are a few holes in his "Korean reunification theory"....

[kimmy]

the situation is entirely different, why do you think South Koreas military is in emergency talks at this moment?

The difference is that in Libya there was a widely popular rebellion. There's no analog to it in North Korea. There's no reason to go to war to "liberate" people who don't want to be liberated.

I can't think of Kim Jong Il without thinking of Team America...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrJdhIqeJGM

-k

[olp1fan]

how can you prove it was really that popular? maybe the media made it popular in our eyes when it wasnt really popular in Libya

[Boges]

The difference is that in Libya there was a widely popular rebellion. There's no analog to it in North Korea. There's no reason to go to war to "liberate" people who don't want to be liberated.

Apparently information is so controlled in NK that people don't know what it's like in the outside world so they really have no reason for a revolution.

Ignorance is bills?

[cybercoma]

how can you prove it was really that popular? maybe the media made it popular in our eyes when it wasnt really popular in Libya

Do you see Koreans with makeshift artillery storming Pyongyang?

[sharkman]

I'm wondering if the son will inherit the throne(so to speak) or if someone else is in the wings. Also, is it possible that there is someone even crazier than Kim?

[Guest Peeves]

I'm wondering if the son will inherit the throne(so to speak) or if someone else is in the wings. Also, is it possible that there is someone even crazier than Kim?

His uncle is the power behind the thrown,and China will be pushing for reform which probably won't come until the people have access to the world outside in some form or another.

[olp1fan]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/21/world/asia/north-korea-leader/index.html

SEOUL, South Korea (CNN) -- Kim Jong Un issued his first military orders as leader of North Korea just before the death of his father was announced, a South Korean state-run news agency said Wednesday.

Citing "a South Korean source," Yonhap reported that Kim "ordered all military units to halt field exercises and training and return to their bases."

The source called it a sign that Kim Jong Il's son, believed to be in his late 20s, had taken "complete control over the military," Yonhap reported.

Before Kim Jong Il died, "he was preparing the country for war and death, and to hand power to Kim Jong Un," the man said.

Edited December 21, 2011 by olp1fan

[bud]

here are koreans showing their emotions in the north korean capital.

[jbg]

here are koreans showing their emotions in the north korean capital.

Looks pretty unbelievable to me. Even JFK didn't elicit that display of crocodile tears.

[olp1fan]

Looks pretty unbelievable to me. Even JFK didn't elicit that display of crocodile tears.

surely that isn't how they really feel

whoever looks happy I am sure would be killed

[bud]

surely that isn't how they really feel

whoever looks happy I am sure would be killed

i think it is a subtle psychological process. they know the consequences of not crying, but they have known the consequences of not doing the expected thing for a long time, this is no different. aside from this though, i think that the idea of the leader, the father of the nation, the holder-together-of-the-society in hard times becomes the lightning rod for all those feelings of hope in the continuity of the people as a whole, of their history, their "koreanness". they project a lot onto these people we see as farcical.

not to mention that majority of the population in pyongyang (where the state videos were released) are members or families of members of the workers party, which have a vested interest in the system.

here is a good article talking about this:

The South Korean magazine Weekly Chosun reported in October that it had obtained a list of 2,108,032 Pyongyang residents compiled in 2005 by State Security, a secret police organization. Of those capital residents, about 830,000 were members of the ruling Workers’ (communist) Party and most of the rest were their family members or prospective party members, the publication suggested, adding that there are only about 2 million party members in the entire country.

Pyongyang dwellers tend to see themselves as having a vested interest in maintenance of the Kim family regime.