Face veils banned for citizenship oaths

[August1991]

I don't give a shit what their culture is, in our country you show your face...

But we don't, when it's cold. We wear hats, scarves and cover everything but our eyes.

We Canadians are generally tolerant. We officially accept different languages, different religions - and we accept many more differences in our daily life. I happen to think that we Canadians have created - with multiculturalism and so on - an imperfect but civilized society on this planet.

----

Kenney and the niqab? There is a more fundamental debate here.

Edited December 13, 2011 by August1991

[Wilber]

they have been identified, they passed every stage of verification and qualification to be a citizen but you insist on seeing their lips recite some silly oath knowing that it will humiliate them...what we have here is a resentment of visible religious minority that the right-wing hates and will do everything they can to publicly humiliate with the hope they leave canada...

How are they identified if no one sees their face? Could be anyone standing there with their hand in the air. So you think becoming a Canadian citizen is just a silly exercise. Don't become one then. No one has citizenship forced on them. As far as being humiliated is concerned, you don't know that, you are just taking their word. They push, you cave.

[August1991]

I don't think the Cons are anti muslim

Sadly, it's the elephant in the room.

There are religious fanatics who have weird habits. But bin Laden (a Muslim) sent planes to destroy tall American buildings.

Other religious fanatics don't do that.

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IMHO, Muslims are going to suffer for a generation or so as Germans have done. As in Germany now, the next generation of Muslims will sadly bear the burden of the folly of their parents.

Edited December 13, 2011 by August1991

[olp1fan]

Sadly, it's the elephant in the room.

There are religious fanatics who have weird habits. But bin Laden (a Muslim) sent planes to destroy tall American buildings. Other religious fanatics don't do that.

Didn't they create that freedom of religion office that nobody knows what it is supposed to be doing?

Bin Laden worked for the CIA ... who the hell knows what his whole story is

Edited December 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[wyly]

You cannot be for human rights and then defend the Muslim culture at the same time

..well you can but you'd be a hypocrite!

oh the irony... :lol: :lol: no comment required on this post, unbelievable...

[olp1fan]

oh the irony... :lol: :lol: no comment required on this post, unbelievable...

irony?

Look. you say you support human rights yet you back a culture that violates many human rights

and my comment was ridiculous?

The Muslim culture is oppressive to women....innocent women who do not deserve to be treated the way they are by Muslim men.. you defend the Muslim culture all of the time, you do not believe in basic human rights for women

why do you hate women so much Wyly?

[wyly]

How are they identified if no one sees their face? Could be anyone standing there with their hand in the air. So you think becoming a Canadian citizen is just a silly exercise. Don't become one then. No one has citizenship forced on them.

omg...do you think they went through the entire citizenship procedure just so they switch in a double at the ceremony

As far as being humiliated is concerned, you don't know that, you are just taking their word. They push, you cave.

lets do nude searches at the airport security you don't women know will be humiliated you are just taking their word, they push you cave... Edited December 13, 2011 by wyly

[wyly]

irony?

Look. you say you support human rights yet you back a culture that violates many human rights

and my comment was ridiculous?

The Muslim culture is oppressive to women....innocent women who do not deserve to be treated the way they are by Muslim men.. you defend the Muslim culture all of the time, you do not believe in basic human rights for women

why do you hate women so much Wyly?

with every post you make my case stronger, a racial intolerant preaching human rights only in MLP :lol:...

[olp1fan]

with every post you make my case stronger, a racial intolerant preaching human rights only in MLP :lol:...

sometimes you have to be intolerant to protect things near and dear to your heart. at least I am man enough to admit mine

I guarantee you you're not tolerant about everything

everybody is intolerant

Edited December 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[cybercoma]

Didn't they create that freedom of religion office that nobody knows what it is supposed to be doing?

Bin Laden worked for the CIA ... who the hell knows what his whole story is

There is no Muslim culture. That's like saying there's a Christian culture, then holding up the Phelps family as the example. I thought you were smarter than that.

[olp1fan]

There is no Muslim culture. That's like saying there's a Christian culture, then holding up the Phelps family as the example. I thought you were smarter than that.

There is a Muslim culture and the fact you said there isn't leads me to believe you're either trolling or ignoring it because it doesn't help your POV

[dre]

Jesus...

[cybercoma]

There is a Muslim culture and the fact you said there isn't leads me to believe you're either trolling or ignoring it because it doesn't help your POV

You know that I don't mean that there's literally no Muslim culture at all. I mean there is no single Muslim culture. There are many different interpretations of Islam. I stand by my example of someone proclaiming there's a single Christian culture, then saying that all Christians are like the Phelps Family or the KKK. Edited December 13, 2011 by cybercoma

[olp1fan]

You know that I don't mean that there's literally no Muslim culture at all. I mean there is no single Muslim culture. There are many different interpretations of Islam. I stand by my example of someone proclaiming there's a single Christian culture, then saying that all Christians are like the Phelps Family or the KKK.

You can have your opinion, I'll have mine

[dre]

irony?

Look. you say you support human rights yet you back a culture that violates many human rights

and my comment was ridiculous?

The Muslim culture is oppressive to women....innocent women who do not deserve to be treated the way they are by Muslim men.. you defend the Muslim culture all of the time, you do not believe in basic human rights for women

why do you hate women so much Wyly?

Nobody is backing "muslim culture". This is getting really stupid.

[wyly]

This is getting really stupid.

or "having a battle of wits with an unarmed man"... Edited December 13, 2011 by wyly

[dre]

or "having a battle of wits with an unarmed man"...

Its a really sad commentary on where lots of people are at unfortunately. Like I said before this is exactly why we have the charter.

Canadians for whatever reason get really goofy and irrational where immigrants are concerned. Like the ones trying to connect terrorism to whether or not a woman wears a head thingy while she recites a ten second one sentence pledge to the queen of england

Heres some beauties from the past...

Under the authority of Section 38 of the Immigration Act, an Order in Council was issued prohibiting the entry of Doukhobors, Mennonitesand Hutterites, because of their "peculiar habits, modes of life and methods of holding property".

Oooh... Spooky. Peculiar habits!

Amendment to the Naturalization Act. Citizenship could be revoked if anyone were found to be "disaffected" or "disloyal" or if the person "was not of good character at the date of the grant of the certificate".

Order in Council issued excluding "any immigrant of any Asiatic race" except agriculturalists, farm labourers, female domestic servants, and wife and children of a person legally in Canada. ("Asia" was conceived broadly, going as far west as Turkey and Syria).

No asians allowed cept chix and farmers

Deportations of immigrants who had organized or participated in strikes or other organized labour activities. Winnipeg Mayor Ralph Webb campaigned to deport and prevent the admission of communists and agitators. He urged the "deportation of all undesirables".

Deported for Joining a union!

In a "red raid" left-wing leaders from across Canada were arrested and sent to Halifax for hearings and deportations. One of them was a Canadian citizen by birth. He sued the government for false arrest, but despite criticisms from the Manitoba Court of Appeal of the Department's failure to follow due process, he lost in a 3-2 decision. The others, known as the "Halifax Ten", lost their appeal before the Nova Scotia Supreme Court (although the Court agreed that the department had not acted in complete conformity with the law). Despite extensive protests, they were deported.

GASP!!! Lefties!

Memo to Mackenzie King by Departments of External Affairs and Mines and Resources: "We do not want to take too many Jews, but in the circumstances, we do not want to say so. We do not want to legitimise the Aryan mythology by introducing any formal distinction for immigration purposes between Jews and non-Jews. The practical distinction, however, has to be made and should be drawn with discretion and sympathy by the competent department, without the need to lay down a formal minute of policy".

No dirty jews!!! But we dont wanna actually SAY it!

The St Louis sailed from Germany with 930 Jewish refugees on board. No country in the Americas would allow them to land. 44 prominent Torontonians sent a telegram to the Prime Minister of Canada urging that sanctuary be given to the refugees, to no avail. The ship was forced to return to Europe where three-quarters of the refugees died at the hands of the Nazis.

Canada: Send the dirty jews back to the gas chamber! Ohhhh Canada!

22,000 Japanese Canadians were expelled from within 100 miles of the Pacific. Many went to detention camps in the interior of B.C., others further east. Detention continued to the end of the war, when the Canadian government encouraged many to "repatriate" to Japan. 4,000 left, more than half Canadian-born and two-thirds Canadian citizens.

WOOOOOT! Lets ROUND UP THE JAPS!

A boat with 123 Chinese passengers arrived off the West Coast - the first of 4 such boats to arrive over the summer. The public response was virulently hostile. Most of the Chinese were kept in long-term detention and some were irregularly prevented from making refugee claims - problems highlighted by the Canadian Council for Refugees.

This was just a few years ago. Long term detention, and prevented from filling out refugee claim forms.

Canadians have a history of turning on just about every identifiable minority out there. I guess theres just lots of scumbags here. I do see a possible legitimate reason to force woman to remove their head thingies (identification), but mostly I just see posts about terrorism or muslim culture... its almost as if people are sooooo stupid they actually think whether or not women can wear a hijab during the stupid pledge has any bearing what-so-ever on either of those things.

Those muslims are damn lucky they havent already been rounded up and tossed in makeshift detention camps by now.

Edited December 13, 2011 by dre

[wyly]

I do see a possible legitimate reason to force woman to remove their head thingies (identification), but mostly I just see posts about terrorism or muslim culture... its almost as if people are sooooo stupid they actually think whether or not women can wear a hijab during the stupid pledge has any bearing what-so-ever on either of those things.

the veil issue if it was really an identification problem could be solved by simple having a female rcmp or other immigration official do a visual identification in private before the ceremony...but the veil objection is a red herring, it's blatant religious discrimination the actual ceremony is just that, a ceremony... the actual identification and acceptance of citizenship of the applicant has already been done beforehand...

[cybercoma]

You can have your opinion, I'll have mine

You're not stating an opinion. You're getting your facts wrong. You say there is one central culture to Islam. It's a fact that there are various sects of Islam and various interpretations. They have no central governing body as there is with Roman Catholicism for instance. That's the reality of it.

You want an opinion? My opinion is that you wouldn't even recognize many Muslims in North America by looking at them.

[eyeball]

Canada is now requiring Muslim women to remove their veils when taking the oath of Citizenship.

No, it's just a bunch of shit disturbing hicks from Alberta who require this.

I wonder if this will be accepted or if there will be a court case arguing that it violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Of course it's going to become a federal case. It would be a perfectly good waste of shit without one.

Edited December 13, 2011 by eyeball

[William Ashley]

all I can say is what an anus.

It is really sad people vote for jerks like this.

stay the hell out of culture and religion you totalitarian dumbo

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Veils+banned+citizenship+ceremonies/5851094/story.html

the face viel has existed a long time why the change after 40+years?

such an anus

Edited December 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[scribblet]

Kudos to Kenney !!!

[g_bambino]

You can have your opinion, I'll have mine

But his is grounded in reality. Yours is not.

[g_bambino]

But we don't, when it's cold. We wear hats, scarves and cover everything but our eyes.

For a logical reason.

Of course, there's no logical reason to wear a turban or a kippah; but, then, they may still be tolerable because they don't cover the face. The niqāb isn't really religious garb, anyway.

The oppression of women is one issue related to the matter of niqābs and burkas. Another, though, is the fact that, in the long prevailing culture in this country (and most of the West), covering one's face without rational reason (except at Hallowe'en; but, that difference from the norm is what makes Hallowe'en fun) arouses suspicion and therefore disquiet. I would even argue that the desire to see the faces of those around us stems from deep in human pre-history; facial expressions are an innate method of communication.

Regardless, when citizenship is tied up with identity, the individual seeking citizenship should let their identity be known. Since women who wear niqāb are, by their own wierd rules, free to remove the mask in the company of family or other women, it might be suggested that they recite their citizenship oath in the presence only of women and a female judge. Or, have a female official confirm the oath-taker's identity just prior to the recital.

We Canadians are generally tolerant.

We are. Must we tolerate everything, though?

[Moonbox]

If it's too much to ask a woman to show her face for a brief moment in her life to say a few words to become a full fledged citizen of Canada, then she doesn't deserve to be a citizen. What's retarded here is how SOME people think that Canadians and their Laws need to bend over backwards to keep minorities happy, but at the same time those minorities shouldn't have to make the most minor of concessions to us. What a joke.