Protest against the LCBO -- Liquor Control Board of Ontario

Boges · March 16, 2015

I was referring more to the Interbrew/Coors.....Sleeman (heh heh) conglomerate. Don't they own their distribution that Galen will need to get in on?

We'll likely see changes to that in the upcoming budget.

The government can't say they want to distribution of beer to be "liberalized" but still allow the Big 3 to control distribution.

This whole bleep storm started when it was discovered, By the Star, that the government has been complicit in allowing the Beer Store to have a competitive advantage over everyone.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/12/09/the_beer_stores_secret_sweetheart_deal_with_lcbo_revealed_cohn.html

Bob Macadoo · March 16, 2015

This whole bleep storm started when it was discovered, By the Star, that the government has been complicit in allowing the Beer Store to have a competitive advantage over everyone.

Was that a secret that the Big 3 had the advantage? How are they going to liberalize it and still maintain "regulatory" control? By regulatory I mean a stranglehold of course

guyser · March 16, 2015

Was that a secret that the Big 3 had the advantage?

Judging by the reaction, yes.

The degree to which they held that advantage is what started this whole process in earnest.

Bob Macadoo · March 16, 2015

Judging by the reaction, yes.The degree to which they held that advantage is what started this whole process in earnest.

Nope. Liberal deficit did. Sell the sitting room furniture and hope you don't have to dig into the living room.

They need quick money and franchise fees are easy money. Only problem is how do you convince the other franchisees that the big franchisee, in direct competition with you ships the goods to you too. Not an agreeable business model.

guyser · March 16, 2015

Nope. Liberal deficit did.

It was the Star that broke the story. When they got their hands on the contract and published what they found, the story got legs.

Bob Macadoo · March 16, 2015

It was the Star that broke the story. When they got their hands on the contract and published what they found, the story got legs.

What specifically was a surprise to you?

guyser · March 16, 2015

What specifically was a surprise to you?

The terms being as shady as they were.

It was not common knowledge.

Bob Macadoo · March 16, 2015

The terms being as shady as they were.It was not common knowledge.

This just like the OPP thread. I'm not a cheerleader for big business but did you not expect a gov't sugar-daddied monopoly to not have a sweetheart contract that paid them for getting up in the morning? We are the province of sole source / overpaying.

guyser · March 16, 2015

This just like the OPP thread. I'm not a cheerleader for big business but did you not expect a gov't sugar-daddied monopoly to not have a sweetheart contract that paid them for getting up in the morning? We are the province of sole source / overpaying.

Again, the terms being as shady as they were.It was not common knowledge

I dont think anyone thought the terms were as bad as they turned out to be. Imthankful some whistleblower got the details to the Star and exposed the asinine details.

If you are saying what did we expect, ok, but once the wool was pulled over pretty much no one fought to see the light.

Did I know that 6 packs in LCBO stores was contractually mandated? Nope, figured since it was called LCBO it meant (to me) that ok thanks for at least having some beer here to save me a trip.

And if you wanna get even more wide eyed, go look at the history and what we had in the 60s and early 70s/ An LCBO worker could deny you service because youd bouthg too much this week/month. There was a file kept on you.

Or the books you ordered from at fron of the store. Not a bottle to be found in the open.

Bob Macadoo · March 17, 2015

Sorry I was aware.....alcohol is an important staple.....

It's amazing that which is readily available but none avail themselves of.

Boges · March 17, 2015

Sorry I was aware.....alcohol is an important staple.....

It's amazing that which is readily available but none avail themselves of.

I don't know what your point here is. I've been saying stuff like this in this thread since I started this thread. The way alcohol is sold in this province is crap. We're treated like children and are told bold face lies to enrich a small number of people.

I guess when it was found out that the Nasty Evil Harris Tories signed the deal with the Big 3 brewers people on the left finally woke up and said this must not stand!

I heard news yesterday that OPSEU is upset that Wynne is allowing Big Grocery stores to have access to wine and beers. They see it as a way to scratch the back of big business. Of course it will take away from the strangle hold Unions have to allow people to get paid $20/hour to stock shelves.

The same lot were notably silent when the convenience store lobby were begging to be able to sell beer because contraband tobacco (which the OLP has done less than nothing about) has taken a huge bite out of their business. These new Canadians that own Hasty Markets and Mac's Milks can't be trusted to sell alcohol to minors. Even though they already sell an arguably worse product to the masses.

So maybe it is a case of the Galen Weston's of the world getting a sweetheart deal themselves from the OLP, who cares! It's a step in the right direction.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Boges

Bob Macadoo · March 17, 2015

I don't know what your pont here is. I've been saying stuff like this in this thread since I started this thread.

Wasn't a cut...apologies.

The way alcohol is sold in this province is crap. We're treated like children and are told bold face lies to enrich a small number of people.

Which is the way of everything.

These new Canadians that own Hasty Markets and Mac's Milks can't be trusted to sell alcohol to minors. Even though they already sell an arguably worse product to the masses.

This has nothing to do with racism, please don't defeat your excellent opinion now.

It's a step in the right direction.

It's the only step that will be made for the next 20 years. This only about fees and no Hasty Market owner can afford the OLP and their burn the furniture for heat.....just as Spring is coming.

Boges · March 17, 2015

OH MY GOD!!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/17/ontario-beer-wine-supermarkets_n_6880064.html

The Ontario Public Service Employees’ Union, which represents some 5,000 LCBO employees, suggested the province could see a spike in violence, “particularly violence against women.”

“We know alcohol contributes to violence, and this makes us question Premier Kathleen Wynne’s commitment to making women in this province safer,” OPSEU president Warren “Smokey” Thomas said in a statement.

The OPSEU suggested supermarket employees may not be able to properly handle the sale of alcohol.

LCBO and Beer Store staff “are trained in the safe and responsible sale and handling of alcohol,” Thomas said. “The same will not be true for staff of grocery stores – and some grocery store employees are too young to legally sell and handle alcohol at all.”

Is this not the most pathetic fear mongering you've ever seen in your life?

LCBO and Beer Store employees are given special telekinetic powers that allow them to know when they're selling to an angry drunk that may beat their spouse. Clearly the ability to buy alcohol at the same place as you can buy food will make people more likely to beat women, and it could lead to dancing.

GEEZ!!!! I feel like paying more just to buy alcohol at a grocery store just so I could avoid supporting these A-Holes.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Boges

Black Dog · March 17, 2015

OH MY GOD!!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/03/17/ontario-beer-wine-supermarkets_n_6880064.html

Is this not the most pathetic fear mongering you've ever seen in your life?

LCBO and Beer Store employees are given special telekinetic powers that allow them to know when they're selling to an angry drunk that may beat their spouse. Clearly the ability to buy alcohol at the same place as you can buy food will make people more likely to beat women, and it could lead to dancing.

GEEZ!!!! I feel like paying more just to buy alcohol at a grocery store just so I could avoid supporting these A-Holes.

Actually the availability of alcohol does contribute to violence. I don't know why you'd take issue with that.

Say what you will about the motives here, but the facts aren't wrong.

Boges · March 17, 2015

Actually the availability of alcohol does contribute to violence. I don't know why you'd take issue with that.

Say what you will about the motives here, but the facts aren't wrong.

Then why isn't the Union trying to reduce to amount of alcohol available altogether?

They just don't want it to be sold by anyone but them.

This is the big lie that we're told by the likes of the LCBO. If they wanted alcohol sales to be something that's not so easy to get, then why do they market themselves? It's about money, they don't give a crap about who gets the alcohol once it leaves their nicely decorated LCBO.

But when anyone wants a piece of their their pie they cry about how they're the only ones that can responsibly dispense this dangerous product.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Boges

Black Dog · March 17, 2015

Then why isn't the Union trying to reduce to amount of alcohol available altogether?

They just don't want it to be sold by anyone but them.

This is the big lie that we're told by the likes of the LCBO. If they wanted alcohol sales to be something that's not so easy to get, then why do they market themselves? It's about money, they don't give a crap about who gets the alcohol once it leaves their nicely decorated LCBO.

But when anyone wants a piece of their their taste they cry about how they're the only ones that can responsibly dispense this dangerous product.

Hey, like I said, they're obviously using the facts to further their own spin. As you point out, the logic doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

The_Squid · March 17, 2015

Actually the availability of alcohol does contribute to violence. I don't know why you'd take issue with that.

Say what you will about the motives here, but the facts aren't wrong.

That's a claim.... where is the cite?

guyser · March 17, 2015

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2090635

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/10826089009058873?journalCode=sum

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/sciprc/pdf/ALCOHOL_AND_VIOLENCE.pdf

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/consultations/basr/camh.html

The_Squid · March 18, 2015

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2090635 http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/10826089009058873?journalCode=sum http://www.ph.ucla.edu/sciprc/pdf/ALCOHOL_AND_VIOLENCE.pdf http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/consultations/basr/camh.html

Swing and a miss!

The claim is that alcohol sold in grocery stores would increase violence, particularly violence against women. It is well known that alcohol contributes to violent behaviour in some people. And your links back that up.

What evidence is there that correlates where a violent drunk gets their alcohol with an increase in that behaviour?

Black Dog · March 18, 2015

Swing and a miss!

The claim is that alcohol sold in grocery stores would increase violence, particularly violence against women. It is well known that alcohol contributes to violent behaviour in some people. And your links back that up.

What evidence is there that correlates where a violent drunk gets their alcohol with an increase in that behaviour?

Uh, it's not about where, specifically, they get booze, but about the general availability. The more widely available booze is, the more people drink and the more people drink the more violent they become.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Black Dog

eyeball · March 18, 2015

So maybe it is a case of the Galen Weston's of the world getting a sweetheart deal themselves from the OLP, who cares! It's a step in the right direction.

I'd care. I recall Weston's name often looming large in the mismanagement of BC'S salmon fishery, especially as it pertained to allocation of opportunity.

Ah, what's the point, Canadians obviously have little problem with their politicians and billionaires being in the same revolving bed with one another.

Boges · March 18, 2015

I'd care. I recall Weston's name often looming large in the mismanagement of BC'S salmon fishery, especially as it pertained to allocation of opportunity.

Ah, what's the point, Canadians obviously have little problem with their politicians and billionaires being in the same revolving bed with one another.

I don't know why he's such a lightning rod. How about the Walmarts or whoever owns Longos, Sobeys, Metro etc etc etc? Loblaws is just the biggest of the Grocery Chains. IMHO they have the best Name brand on the market. But whatever.

I'd prefer to have Beer at my local Hasty Market but in the absence of that, I'll take this deal. As said earlier in this thread, these 300 grocery stores that will get to bid to get these licenses will have to have deep pockets.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Boges

Black Dog · March 18, 2015

I don't know why he's such a lightning rod. How about the Walmarts or whoever owns Longos, Sobeys, Metro etc etc etc? Loblaws is just the biggest of the Grocery Chains. IMHO they have the best Name brand on the market. But whatever.

I think because he's "the face" of the brand moreso than whoever runs those other corporations, that's all.

I'd prefer to have Beer at my local Hasty Market but in the absence of that, I'll take this deal. As said earlier in this thread, these 300 grocery stores that will get to bid to get these licenses will have to have deep pockets.

It's a shame because I expect we'll see the same problems we see at the Beer Store/Wine Rack: lots of big brands that can move in volume. The little guys won't benefit much, nor will consumers in terms of choice.

Boges · March 18, 2015

I think because he's "the face" of the brand moreso than whoever runs those other corporations, that's all.

It's a shame because I expect we'll see the same problems we see at the Beer Store/Wine Rack: lots of big brands that can move in volume. The little guys won't benefit much, nor will consumers in terms of choice.

McWynnty went to the Mike Harris trope yesterday saying it's his fault that Craft Beers have the game stacked against them.

http://metronews.ca/news/canada/1314637/previous-governments-have-stacked-deck-against-craft-brewers-wynne/

I think the LCBO already does a good job exposing consumers to craft beers, so the distribution channels are there. I'm sure Loblaws won't feel the need to put Bud Light and Molson Canadian front and centre because it doesn't have an ownership stake in those brands.

Black Dog · March 18, 2015

I think the LCBO already does a good job exposing consumers to craft beers, so the distribution channels are there. I'm sure Loblaws won't feel the need to put Bud Light and Molson Canadian front and centre because it doesn't have an ownership stake in those brands.

No ownership stake, but those brands are the big sellers and they'll want to move units.