Jack Weber Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 Definitely. That, and the NFL's continued changing of rules to promote offense, and crackdown on defense. I'm thinking if Marino played during the current rules, he'd probably have thrown for another 500 - 1000 yards. I'm sure of that... However,although Mr.Brees has broken Marino's record tonight,he's still got a long way to go to break the single season Pro football record for a 16 game season... Warren Moon...Edmonton Eskimos...5,648 in 1983... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 I'm sure of that... However,although Mr.Brees has broken Marino's record tonight,he's still got a long way to go to break the single season Pro football record for a 16 game season... Warren Moon...Edmonton Eskimos...5,648 in 1983... Apple meet Orange. Quote
Shady Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 35.6 is the lowest I can personally recall ever seeing. There's been plenty of games with QB ratings of lower than that. There's also been games with QB's with ratings of zero. Yes, zero. And this is a great example of why it's dumb to try and associate some kind of greater message with a sports outcome. This is also a great example of a strawman. I didn't know that anyone was making that kind of connection, other than maybe one or two kooks. If Tebow's "miracle" wins were proof of the power of Jesus, then what were his last two games? The trials and tribulations of a rookie quarterback. (See Peyton Manning for example) Quote
msj Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 There's been plenty of games with QB ratings of lower than that. There's also been games with QB's with ratings of zero. Yes, zero. Yes, but that was the worst that she has seen. After looking at the FO Quick Reads for week 16 I looked back to see any other bad performances this year and found these two that are worse (using FO's stats) than Tebows: Week 4 - Mark Sanchez 11/35 119 yards no touchdowns and 1 interception. But that was against the Ravens Defence and FO's defensive adjustment is not at full strength until about week 10 so I think if they went back this game would be better than Tebow's using DYAR. The worst QB performance of the year (so far) appears to be Luck McCown's performance in week 2 against the NYJ: 6/19 for 59 yards, 0 TD and 4 Interceptions. Yes, the NYJ defence is good but adjustments don't need to be made to know that that is one stinky game. I may have to go back to GamePass and watch that one - but probably not as I only like watching the Jets when they lose. The trials and tribulations of a rookie quarterback. (See Peyton Manning for example) I would rather see Cam Newton who is truly a rookie this season and is looking great per the link provided above (check out those similarity scores!). Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Shady Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 I would rather see Cam Newton who is truly a rookie this season and is looking great per the link provided above (check out those similarity scores!). No doubt that Newton has had a very good year. But that's not typical of a rookie quarterback. Quote
msj Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 No doubt that Newton has had a very good year. But that's not typical of a rookie quarterback. No, it isn't which is why it should be such a great story. Newton could be having the best rookie season ever although I will wait for someone with more interest in this to do a write up. The other rookie this season (well, besides Von Miller) who is looking really good is Dalton for the Bengals. I would love to see similarity scores for him. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Boges Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 No, it isn't which is why it should be such a great story. Newton could be having the best rookie season ever although I will wait for someone with more interest in this to do a write up. The other rookie this season (well, besides Von Miller) who is looking really good is Dalton for the Bengals. I would love to see similarity scores for him. Both Dalton and Newton have probably had better years but Tebow is polarizing. But haven't won at similar rates. I do hope the Bengals make the playoffs because the Jets are worse than Satan. Quote
Shady Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 No, it isn't which is why it should be such a great story. Newton could be having the best rookie season ever although I will wait for someone with more interest in this to do a write up. The other rookie this season (well, besides Von Miller) who is looking really good is Dalton for the Bengals. I would love to see similarity scores for him. Dalton's receiver AJ Green is having a pretty good year too. As was Cowboy's RB Murray before he got hurt. Quote
msj Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 Both Dalton and Newton have probably had better years but Tebow is polarizing. But haven't won at similar rates. Teams win football games. While a QB may be the most important player on the team; he, by himself, cannot create a winning season. As for "probably had better years:" using the useless "passer rating" that you seem to like: Newton 85 Dalton 81.8 Tebow 75.9 Using the more complete FO stats: Dalton Passing: 675 DYAR/ 10.2% DVOA Rushing: 12 DYAR/ -2.6% DVOA Newton Passing: 644/9% Rushing: 188/15.4% Tebow Passing: -97/-16.6 Rushing: 28/-7.1% There's no "probably" about it. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Shady Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Teams win football games. While a QB may be the most important player on the team; he, by himself, cannot create a winning season. As for "probably had better years:" using the useless "passer rating" that you seem to like: Newton 85 Dalton 81.8 Tebow 75.9 Using the more complete FO stats: Dalton Passing: 675 DYAR/ 10.2% DVOA Rushing: 12 DYAR/ -2.6% DVOA Newton Passing: 644/9% Rushing: 188/15.4% Tebow Passing: -97/-16.6 Rushing: 28/-7.1% There's no "probably" about it. What is DYAR and DVOA? And what do they mean? And Newton has had a better year than a lot of people, not just Tebow. Ponder, Gabbert, etc. Edited December 27, 2011 by Shady Quote
Boges Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) What is DYAR and DVOA? And what do they mean? You gotta review earlier pages in this thread for a discussion on this. I believe It's some statistic invented on this site called Footballoutsiders.com that takes into account the ranking of the defenses the QB has played into the equation. Tebow isn't a rookie, he started a few games last year with similar results as he's had this year. I've heard pundits say Gabbert isn't a great QB. Ponder is decent. Both the Jags and the Vikes have interesting decisions to make because they will finish at the bottom of the league again this year and could find themselves needing another QB if they don't deem the one they just drafted a QB for the future. The Broncos don't have that luxury. If they win the AFC West they can pick no sooner than 26. I believe. Then again look at how Alex Smith has matured. Edited December 27, 2011 by Boges Quote
Boges Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 As a side note, wouldn't it be totally karma if Kyle Orton ends up beating the Bronks this week ripping the playoff spot from them. That's the kind of conflict and drama that makes the NFL worth watching. Quote
Shady Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 You gotta review earlier pages in this thread for a discussion on this. I believe It's some statistic invented on this site called Footballoutsiders.com that takes into account the ranking of the defenses the QB has played into the equation. Sounds like the ridiculous BCS system in college football. I think I'll stick to official NFL stats. Tebow isn't a rookie, he started a few games last year with similar results as he's had this year. He's not a rookie the in the sense that this is his first year in the NFL. But he's essentially a first year quarberback. He barely got any first team reps last year, and only started getting them a quarter through this year. And he only has what, 10 starts under his belt? Anyways, screw Newton, and Tebow. It's Matthew Stafford that everyone should be talking about! Quote
msj Posted December 27, 2011 Report Posted December 27, 2011 What is DYAR and DVOA? And what do they mean? And Newton has had a better year than a lot of people, not just Tebow. Ponder, Gabbert, etc. You will have to read up on DYAR and DVOA for yourself. As for Newton having a better year than a lot of people - well, I never said he wasn't. In fact, I said something about him being the rookie of the year several pages back. FO clearly show Newton ranked as #13 and #15 in DYAR and DVOA respectively. Which for a rookie is pretty good. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Jack Weber Posted December 28, 2011 Report Posted December 28, 2011 Apple meet Orange. Were you even alive in 1983??? Do you know anything of those Eskimo teams of the late '70's and early '80's??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
msj Posted December 28, 2011 Report Posted December 28, 2011 Sounds like the ridiculous BCS system in college football. I think I'll stick to official NFL stats. Well, Jim Schwartz, coach of your Detroit Lions, pays attention to Footballoutsiders so it can't be that ridiculous. Link to Peter King's podcast for Dec 27 (go to ~27 minutes). Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Boges Posted December 28, 2011 Report Posted December 28, 2011 Were you even alive in 1983??? Do you know anything of those Eskimo teams of the late '70's and early '80's??? I was 3. Who cares how good the Eskimos were in the early 80's, you can't compare an NFL Defense and a CFL defense. It's like how I smirk when Canadian Networks say Anthony Calvillo and Damon Allen before him were Pro Footballs record holder for career yardage. Quote
Jack Weber Posted December 29, 2011 Report Posted December 29, 2011 I was 3. Who cares how good the Eskimos were in the early 80's, you can't compare an NFL Defense and a CFL defense. It's like how I smirk when Canadian Networks say Anthony Calvillo and Damon Allen before him were Pro Footballs record holder for career yardage. Underlining your relatively limited knowledge football history,yet again... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
msj Posted December 29, 2011 Report Posted December 29, 2011 Underlining your relatively limited knowledge football history,yet again... To borrow from Michael Hardner: there is nothing in your post that explains what reasoning is behind this statement. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Jack Weber Posted December 29, 2011 Report Posted December 29, 2011 To borrow from Michael Hardner: there is nothing in your post that explains what reasoning is behind this statement. There's a history that supports my statement... Perhaps a willful lack of knowledge of that history is a better phrase??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
msj Posted December 29, 2011 Report Posted December 29, 2011 There's a history that supports my statement... Perhaps a willful lack of knowledge of that history is a better phrase??? Oh, so still no explanation. Then one will have to assume none is coming because...? Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
Jack Weber Posted December 29, 2011 Report Posted December 29, 2011 Oh, so still no explanation. Then one will have to assume none is coming because...? Well,between Shady and Boges,there is a veritable library of cluelessness dressed up as "knowledge" for not following anything other than American professional football... One needs only to look up this stuff,as you should know from the Dick Butkus/Ray Lewis "debate from this time last year... Plus all the stuff from these two during the summer? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
sharkman Posted December 29, 2011 Report Posted December 29, 2011 I'm curious to see what happens with Denver's next game. Another loss will put big doubts on Tebow's status as starter and worsen their chances to make the play offs. Quote
Jack Weber Posted December 29, 2011 Report Posted December 29, 2011 I'm curious to see what happens with Denver's next game. Another loss will put big doubts on Tebow's status as starter and worsen their chances to make the play offs. Is Denver not playing Oakland??? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
msj Posted December 29, 2011 Report Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) I'm curious to see what happens with Denver's next game. Another loss will put big doubts on Tebow's status as starter and worsen their chances to make the play offs. Well, if KC wins and Oakland wins then Denver is out. Why one would have doubts about Tebow based on Denver's win/loss record is beyond me. It is not 1 against 11, you know. They should have doubts because he has not looked very good - slow and strange mechanics, apparently slow to read/comprehend coverage, lack of accuracy etc. I would be curious to see how he would develop with a QB coach like, ironically, Josh McDaniels. Edited December 29, 2011 by msj Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
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