The Defacto Official NFL Thead (was 'Tim Tebow WTH?')

[msj]

I pretty much agree with everything you said Kimmy.

I'm "reading" Andre Agassi's autobio "Open" (actually I'm listening to it when I run and when I'm in the car).

In 1990 Andre beat Michael Chang at the French Open.

To paraphrase: Chang always credited God/Jesus as being on his side. Andre couldn't understand why Jesus would take sides over a tennis game. He didn't like Chang's blend of egotism and religion. So Andre beat him as well as he could.

That's the thing about famous people being openly religious: is it genuine? is it egotism? is it a blend? is it something else?

Tebow honestly believes in God and does some good things due to that belief (with the prompting of his mother to some extent - hey, he's a young guy so good on her and him for listening to her).

I just don't want to hear about it because for me religion is a private matter that is best to be argued over on a forum such as this.

Also, it's a football game. Why would any god choose sides over something so silly?

[bush_cheney2004]

Tebow honestly believes in God and does some good things due to that belief (with the prompting of his mother to some extent - hey, he's a young guy so good on her and him for listening to her).

Tebow's reasons for his success are his own, and he has personal experience to feel "blessed" according to his religious faith. It's a lot more refreshing than crediting anabolic steroids!

[Shady]

Only somebody as dumb as bricks would think God takes sides in a football game. And only somebody as dumb as bricks would think Tim Tebow has ever suggested such a thing.

[msj]

Only somebody as dumb as bricks would think God takes sides in a football game. And only somebody as dumb as bricks would think Tim Tebow has ever suggested such a thing.

Others have certainly said it. Including his pastor.

Oh, and Tebow has also stated things like "f you believe then unbelievable things can sometimes be possible."

Which certainly does suggest such a thing.

[Boges]

Others have certainly said it. Including his pastor.

Oh, and Tebow has also stated things like "f you believe then unbelievable things can sometimes be possible."

Which certainly does suggest such a thing.

Well his default is to thank God for everything. Even when he loses he thanks his Lord and Saviour. I don't know but if I was the QB that evening and I saw DT running down the field in OT about to win the game I'd be pretty thankful myself.

I've never heard him say that God decides his games. He just credits God will all that he has. That's pretty standard Christian doctrine.

It's others who like to mock Christianity that makes it about Tebow being on Jesus' side. Heck I'm guilty as anyone. I call him Lord Tebow sometimes in jest. He's just this guy that seems to walk the walk like no one we've ever seen.

[msj]

Well his default is to thank God for everything. Even when he loses he thanks his Lord and Saviour. I don't know but if I was the QB that evening and I saw DT running down the field in OT about to win the game I'd be pretty thankful myself.

Sure, whatever floats your boat.

I've never heard him say that God decides his games. He just credits God will all that he has. That's pretty standard Christian doctrine.

Well, Denver LB Wesley Woodyard claims this:

Last week, after the Broncos rallied to beat the Bears, Mark Kiszla of The Denver Post had this nugget:

“Tebow came to me and said, ‘Don’t worry about a thing,’ because God has spoken to him,” linebacker Wesley Woodyard told me in a quiet corner of the Denver locker room.

But who knows what really goes on in the locker room [looks for the Tosh.O clip of "Tebowing" in a bathroom with a "glory hole" in it ]

It's others who like to mock Christianity that makes it about Tebow being on Jesus' side. Heck I'm guilty as anyone. I call him Lord Tebow sometimes in jest. He's just this guy that seems to walk the walk like no one we've ever seen.

What I find more annoying is the "what if" scenario - as in what if Tebow were muslim and still did his shtick?

If Time Tebow Were Muslim Would America Still Love Him?

[Boges]

Sure, whatever floats your boat.

Well, Denver LB Wesley Woodyard claims this:

But who knows what really goes on in the locker room [looks for the Tosh.O clip of "Tebowing" in a bathroom with a "glory hole" in it ]

What I find more annoying is the "what if" scenario - as in what if Tebow were muslim and still did his shtick?

If Time Tebow Were Muslim Would America Still Love Him?

Well there's an example of a Muslim athlete that America grew to love: Mohamed Ali.

Now I'm sure there were people that hated Ali because he converted to Islam or that he was black or that he didn't go to Vietnam. But in a nation that probably was far more religious than it is now. Ali was the most revered American Athlete.

I don't think people would like Tebow because of his following of Islam, but if he was a stand-up guy and won I doubt the public would care.

I remember There was a Dolphins running back in the 90's named Karim-Abdul Jabbar. Named after the Basketball player. I didn't care if he was Muslim, I just cared that he led the league in Rushing TDs.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Boges

[Shady]

Others have certainly said it. Including his pastor.

So Tebow's responsible for what other people say now too?

Oh, and Tebow has also stated things like "f you believe then unbelievable things can sometimes be possible."

Which certainly does suggest such a thing.

It doesn't suggest that at all.

Anyways, it's interesting that Tebow gets criticized for being religious. Apparently it was ok for Deon Sanders to where Jesus headbands and WWJD on his uniform. Apparently it was ok for Reggie White to actually preach about the bible and God as a member of the Green Bay Packers. But oh my God, Tim Tebow is religious, head for the hills!!!

[Boges]

So Tebow's responsible for what other people say now too?

It doesn't suggest that at all.

Anyways, it's interesting that Tebow gets criticized for being religious. Apparently it was ok for Deon Sanders to where Jesus headbands and WWJD on his uniform. Apparently it was ok for Reggie White to actually preach about the bible and God as a member of the Green Bay Packers. But oh my God, Tim Tebow is religious, head for the hills!!!

Payne Stewart was a popular golfer before dying in a plane crash. I was all about the WWJD craze. I don't remember pushback from him. His win over Lefty in the '99 US Open was one of the rather coolest moments in recent golf history. Of course not involving Eldrick.

[msj]

So Tebow's responsible for what other people say now too?

Never said that he was.

It doesn't suggest that at all.

Yes, it does.

And what his LB buddy has said also says as much.

Anyways, it's interesting that Tebow gets criticized for being religious. Apparently it was ok for Deon Sanders to where Jesus headbands and WWJD on his uniform. Apparently it was ok for Reggie White to actually preach about the bible and God as a member of the Green Bay Packers. But oh my God, Tim Tebow is religious, head for the hills!!!

He is not being criticized for being religious.

He is being criticized for making his religion so in your face.

He is being criticized to the extent that he blends egotism with religion which he apparently does per the quotes in my posts above.

As for Deion Sanders - I didn't know this forum was up and running in 1989. For White, we're talking what? 1996?

Sounds non sequiturish to me.

[Boges]

As for Deion Sanders - I didn't know this forum was up and running in 1989. For White, we're talking what? 1996?

Sounds non sequiturish to me.

So you only want current examples of outwardly religious athletes?

http://www.totalprosports.com/2011/06/20/9-devoutly-religious-athletes/

Kurt Warner, Josh Hamilton and Kurt Shilling are fairly recent examples.

Heck Tebow is only 8th on that list.

Deon is pretty front and centre in sports world because of his work on the NFL Network. He's probably the best guy on there.

I didn't even know Hakeem Olajuwon was Muslim .

Edited January 10, 2012 by Boges

[msj]

I remember There was a Dolphins running back in the 90's named Karim-Abdul Jabbar. Named after the Basketball player. I didn't care if he was Muslim, I just cared that he led the league in Rushing TDs.

I bet if he was in your face about it - if the TV crews dared to show him bowing towards Mecca 5 times per day (not that the media would actually show that, right?) then more people would have cared.

Sort of like the guy who didn't like that All-American Muslim TV program on TLC because it didn't show Muslims as they normally are: in aisle 5 at Lowes buying piping and fertilizer. Per Dec 13, 2011 Daily Show.

[Boges]

I bet if he was in your face about it - if the TV crews dared to show him bowing towards Mecca 5 times per day (not that the media would actually show that, right?) then more people would have cared.

Sort of like the guy who didn't like that All-American Muslim TV program on TLC because it didn't show Muslims as they normally are: in aisle 5 at Lowes buying piping and fertilizer. Per Dec 13, 2011 Daily Show.

I bet if he did Muslims in the West would certainly love it. Are you expecting Christians to have the same reverence for a Muslim athlete compared to a Christian athlete?

Sort of like how Canadians cheer for the Phoenix Suns because of Steve Nash. Or how the Seattle Mariners are big in Japan because of Ichiro or how the Houston Rockets were huge in China because of Yao Ming.

I know that nationality and not religion but the comparison still works.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Boges

[Shady]

Never said that he was.

Then why are you posting what other people besides Tebow have said?

Yes, it does.

No it doesn't. I'm not sure why you think it does.

And what his LB buddy has said also says as much.

Once again, posting what somebody other than Tebow says.

He is being criticized for making his religion so in your face.

I think it's the media that's been making his religion a big issue.

As for Deion Sanders - I didn't know this forum was up and running in 1989. For White, we're talking what? 1996?

It wasn't, but the media was. Sanders was the late 90s toward the end of his career. White was then and earlier. I didn't hear the same critics back then. Why not?

[msj]

So you only want current examples of outwardly religious athletes?

No, we are talking about Tebow and religion because it is current and in the news.

It is also what this thread is about so it is on topic.

[Shady]

I bet if he did Muslims in the West would certainly love it.

BINGO!

If he were a Muslim, the same people criticizing him in the media right now would be praising and defending him. Funny how that works.

[msj]

Then why are you posting what other people besides Tebow have said?

And what Tebow has said too but you choose to ignore or disagree as to what it "suggests."

No it doesn't. I'm not sure why you think it does.

Then we disagree.

Once again, posting what somebody other than Tebow says.

Seems relevant.

I think it's the media that's been making his religion a big issue.

I agree. But Tebow feeds it with his antics so he deserves some of the flack too.

It wasn't, but the media was. Sanders was the late 90s toward the end of his career. White was then and earlier. I didn't hear the same critics back then. Why not?

Sanders was drafted in 1989.

I don't know to what extent they were criticized as that was a long time ago which is why I think it is non sequiturish of you to bring it up now.

Edited January 10, 2012 by msj

[msj]

I bet if he did Muslims in the West would certainly love it. Are you expecting Christians to have the same reverence for a Muslim athlete compared to a Christian athlete?

Same god, different name.

Sort of like Romans cheering for the guy who worships Jupiter rather than Zeus.

[Boges]

Same god, different name.

Sort of like Romans cheering for the guy who worships Jupiter rather than Zeus.

And different doctrine, dogma and different saviour.

[msj]

And different doctrine, dogma and different saviour.

Not as different as some people would like if my memory of my comparative religious days can be relied on.

But that's another thread.

[Shady]

And what Tebow has said too but you choose to ignore or disagree as to what it "suggests."

What did Tebow say?

Seems relevant.

No, attributing something somebody else says to Tebow is not relevant at all.

I agree. But Tebow feeds it with his antics so he deserves some of the flack too.

What antics?

Sanders was drafted in 1989.

Yes, but he didn't "find Jesus" until later in his career. Why are you being so obtuse?

[msj]

What did Tebow say?

I have already quoted him in a post above (to which you responded).

No, attributing something somebody else says to Tebow is not relevant at all.

I have also pointed out what his pastor has said and also (in a separate post) what a teammate claims he has said.

What antics?

Tebowing. Pointing to the sky. Saying the things he has been quoted as saying above and for what a teammate claims (also above).

Always making sure to get his religious POV and latest good guy stuff into his interviews (with Peter King, for example).

Yes, but he didn't "find Jesus" until later in his career. Why are you being so obtuse?

Why are you being obtuse?

This thread is about Tebow.

Tebow is relevant to 2011/2012.

If this forum was around in the mid to late 1990's then maybe someone would have brought it up. Who knows - it's a hypothetical.

Edited January 10, 2012 by msj

[Boges]

Tebowing. Pointing to the sky. Saying the things he has been quoted as saying above and for what a teammate claims (also above).

Taking a knee and praying in public or "Tebowing" is inappropriate. Only religious freaks do it.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-od-F8_IwnT4/Twotjxh7spI/AAAAAAAAFQk/orkZEhqOBsg/s1600/ben%2Broethlisberger%2Btebowing.jpg

[msj]

Taking a knee and praying in public or "Tebowing" is inappropriate. Only religious freaks do it.

I meant all of those things together.

Many athletes do one or another from time to time.

One's frequency of doing something (and/or many things) is part of the context as to if it is being performed by a "religious freak" or not.

As for "Tebowing" being inappropriate - you said it, I didn't.

[Boges]

I meant all of those things together.

Many athletes do one or another from time to time.

One's frequency of doing something (and/or many things) is part of the context as to if it is being performed by a "religious freak" or not.

As for "Tebowing" being inappropriate - you said it, I didn't.

He says "I'd like to thank my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" at the onset of just about every interview I've seen. Then again, so do rappers and country music star when they win awards. If that makes people uncomfortable it isn't Tebow's problem.

Other than that I don't really see him Proselytizing in the MSM unless prompted.