The 7 Contradictions of the Occupy Movement

[August1991]

1. Our best strategy is having no strategy. We have no leaders because our movement does not need a leader.

2. We have no property - except our own stuff. We occupy a public place, and claim it as our own to oppose private wealth.

3. We oppose authority - but we want more government spending.

4a. We are American, and we claim to represent 99% of humanity.

4b. As white young articulate North American kids, we defend the world's poor.

5. We oppose capitalism, free trade and the current world corporate system despite that in the past 30 years or so, capitalism and free trade have moved a billion or more people in the world beyond dire poverty.

6. We object to consumerism, and use our iPads to make our message known.

7. We are peaceful anarchists and oppose force - except when we protect ourselves.

Edited November 20, 2011 by August1991

[lukin]

You are gravely mistaken if you think these people don't have a leader. There is a master and the occupiers are the puppets.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[Bonam]

Only 7?

[jbg]

You are gravely mistaken if you think these people don't have a leader. There is a master and the occupiers are the puppets.

Who?

[August1991]

You are gravely mistaken if you think these people don't have a leader.

So, who is the leader? Leonid Brezhnev? George Soros?

Lukin, if life could be so simple.

-----

I saw the aftermath in Lebanon. I am terrified that a small percentage of fanatics, a mob, could cause such havoc for everyone else.

Thank God that in the modern West, in general, cooler heads prevail.

[lukin]

So, who is the leader? Leonid Brezhnev? George Soros?

Lukin, if life could be so simple.

-----

I saw the aftermath in Lebanon. I am terrified that a small percentage of fanatics, a mob, could cause such havoc for everyone else.

Thank God that in the modern West, in general, cooler heads prevail.

For the time being.....

[eyeball]

Ha...and all this time I thought people who said they didn't get it were just being disingenuous.

Go figure - you mean they really don't?

[August1991]

For the time being.....

The municipal governments, and police chiefs, have largely got this right. (IMHO, they should have moved sooner but who am I to second-guess.)

But Lukin, imagine a society where this small Occupy Mob suddenly had power, and controlled the State.

I lived through mob violence in Sri Lanka in 1984 and I think that's what happened in France in 1789.

In Lebanon (another place I know), a small percentage of the population in the 1970s created utter havoc for everyone else.

Edited November 20, 2011 by August1991

[lukin]

The municipal governments, and police chiefs, have largely got this right. (IMHO, they should have moved sooner but who am I to second-guess.)

But Lukin, imagine a society where this small Occupy Mob suddenly had power, and controlled the State.

I lived through mob violence in Sri Lanka in 1984 and I think that's what happened in France in 1789.

In Lebanon (another place I know), a small percentage of the population in the 1970s created utter havoc for everyone else.

Full scale riots is the goal of these occupy protests. Except many of the occupiers are unaware of this goal. The puppet masters get what the puppet masters want. They can hide while the fools get played.

[dre]

1. Our best strategy is having no strategy. We have no leaders because our movement does not need a leader.

2. We have no property - except our own stuff. We occupy a public place, and claim it as our own to oppose private wealth.

3. We oppose authority - but we want more government spending.

4a. We are American, and we claim to represent 99% of humanity.

4b. As white young articulate North American kids, we defend the world's poor.

5. We oppose capitalism, free trade and the current world corporate system despite that in the past 30 years or so, capitalism and free trade have moved a billion or more people in the world beyond dire poverty.

6. We object to consumerism, and use our iPads to make our message known.

7. We are peaceful anarchists and oppose force - except when we protect ourselves.

Interesting post.

At when I read it It seemed like a garden variety rant expressing a clear bias... and I wasnt going to reply. But then I noticed that most of your points are just intellectually dishonest strawmen. For example...

We object to consumerism, and use our iPads to make our message known.

And THEN... I noticed the how much logical fallacy that had been crammed into this single small post, I thought... This might be something special. For example...

As white young articulate North American kids, we defend the world's poor.

Apparently its a contradiction for a young white American to take on the cause of the impoverished?

So yeah... While I almost passed over your post without giving it much thought, I gotta admit Im impressed.

Impressed that you would even bother writing it.

And Impressed that at the sheer density of logical fallacy in such a short post.

Edited November 20, 2011 by dre

[charter.rights]

1. Our best strategy is having no strategy. We have no leaders because our movement does not need a leader.

They believe it is about having a single issue and can't understand that it is a discussion that is taking place all over the world. True participatory democracy doesn't have leaders. It has consensus.

2. We have no property - except our own stuff. We occupy a public place, and claim it as our own to oppose private wealth. They aren't opposed to private wealth.

3. We oppose authority - but we want more government spending. They neither oppose or authority or want more government spending. They want government to get out of bed with big corrupt corporations.

4a. We are American, and we claim to represent 99% of humanity. They are representative of people all over the world.

4b. As white young articulate North American kids, we defend the world's poor. They aren't attempting to defend the poor exclusively. The defend our human and civil rights, which are not exclusive to race or wealth status.

5. We oppose capitalism, free trade and the current world corporate system despite that in the past 30 years or so, capitalism and free trade have moved a billion or more people in the world beyond dire poverty. They do not oppose capitalism, they oppose corporatism and government corruption.

6. We object to consumerism, and use our iPads to make our message known.They object to rampant consumerism that builds in premature redundancy in order to produce more.

7. We are peaceful anarchists and oppose force - except when we protect ourselves. They are not anarchists, since they are highly organized and democratic in their messages. The problem is that the Right Wing sees democracy as a threat to their aristocracies and uses every means (Lobbying firm's memo spells out plan to undermine Occupy Wall Street)to interfere with their democratic right to protest and send messages out to others.

I wonder why this message is threatening to Conservatives?

[Guest Manny]

I wonder why this message is threatening to Conservatives?

[Guest Manny]

We are the real conservatives

[lukin]

1. Our best strategy is having no strategy. We have no leaders because our movement does not need a leader.

They believe it is about having a single issue and can't understand that it is a discussion that is taking place all over the world. True participatory democracy doesn't have leaders. It has consensus.

2. We have no property - except our own stuff. We occupy a public place, and claim it as our own to oppose private wealth. They aren't opposed to private wealth.

3. We oppose authority - but we want more government spending. They neither oppose or authority or want more government spending. They want government to get out of bed with big corrupt corporations.

4a. We are American, and we claim to represent 99% of humanity. They are representative of people all over the world.

4b. As white young articulate North American kids, we defend the world's poor. They aren't attempting to defend the poor exclusively. The defend our human and civil rights, which are not exclusive to race or wealth status.

5. We oppose capitalism, free trade and the current world corporate system despite that in the past 30 years or so, capitalism and free trade have moved a billion or more people in the world beyond dire poverty. They do not oppose capitalism, they oppose corporatism and government corruption.

6. We object to consumerism, and use our iPads to make our message known.They object to rampant consumerism that builds in premature redundancy in order to produce more.

7. We are peaceful anarchists and oppose force - except when we protect ourselves. They are not anarchists, since they are highly organized and democratic in their messages. The problem is that the Right Wing sees democracy as a threat to their aristocracies and uses every means (Lobbying firm's memo spells out plan to undermine Occupy Wall Street)to interfere with their democratic right to protest and send messages out to others.

I wonder why this message is threatening to Conservatives?

Charter, the top echelon of the occupiers, those not protesting, are very well organized, pouring millions of dollars into the so-called occupy protest. The socialist-capitalists are pulling the strings. The goal of the power elite is to give the average citizen less freedom through revolution/riot. We are in for a rough ride. Time for you to take off the blinders and realize why these protests are happening.

Here's another perspective.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/iris-somberg/2011/10/14/36-million-soros-aids-groups-support-promote-occupy-wall-street#ixzz1dn0wIZQN

Too bad the MSM is utterly useless.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/iris-somberg/2011/10/14/36-million-soros-aids-groups-support-promote-occupy-wall-street#ixzz1dn16enbw

Edited November 20, 2011 by lukin

[charter.rights]

Charter.....

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/iris-somberg/2011/10/14/36-million-soros-aids-groups-support-promote-occupy-wall-street#ixzz1dn0wIZQN

Too bad the MSM is utterly useless.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/iris-somberg/2011/10/14/36-million-soros-aids-groups-support-promote-occupy-wall-street#ixzz1dn16enbw

Right:

Lobbying firm's memo spells out plan to undermine Occupy Wall Street

Where do you think your conspiracy theory originated?

Edited November 20, 2011 by charter.rights

[cybercoma]

1. Our best strategy is having no strategy. We have no leaders because our movement does not need a leader.

It's a democratic movement that works on consensus voting through a General Assembly. There's no leader because it's fundamentally a democratic movement.

2. We have no property - except our own stuff. We occupy a public place, and claim it as our own to oppose private wealth.

Occupy doesn't oppose private wealth, nor do they claim they have no property. I'm not sure where you get that from.

3. We oppose authority - but we want more government spending.

Again, wrong and wrong. It's not that they oppose authority... they oppose financial corruption of the government. They oppose politicians being bought and paid for by the financial elite. Which again contradicts your second point.

They don't want more public spending. In fact, they are opposed to the federal bailouts of the financial sector. They're tired of the privatized gains and socialized losses of Wall Street. That's not supporting more public spending, it's calling for less. It's calling for the government to stop giving public money to private financial elites who can't manage their business properly.

4a. We are American, and we claim to represent 99% of humanity.

No idea where you got that from.

4b. As white young articulate North American kids, we defend the world's poor.

Again, not sure where you're getting this. The world's poor are a concern, as they always are, but this is not the primary goal of OWS.

5. We oppose capitalism, free trade and the current world corporate system despite that in the past 30 years or so, capitalism and free trade have moved a billion or more people in the world beyond dire poverty.

OWS is not a Communist movement, designed to destroy Capitalism no matter how many times you or misinformed analysts keep saying it. It's fundamentally a protest about the death of democracy. It's about recognizing that the US federal government is bought and paid for by the financial elite and that the decisions the government makes is no longer in the best interests of the 99%. Instead, they're consolidating the wealth and power in the top 1%. Case in point, OWS opposed the bailouts of the banks. This is not opposing capitalism. This is precisely opposing socialism. OWS opposes the 1% pulling the strings of government, not capitalism, free trade or whatever "the current world corporate system" means.

6. We object to consumerism, and use our iPads to make our message known.

No. They don't object to consumerism.

7. We are peaceful anarchists and oppose force - except when we protect ourselves.

OWS has neither used nor endorsed any violence. They formed human chains infront of the banks that were smashed by opportunists in Oakland. They've shouted down people that have yelled inflammatory things at cops. OWS is absolutely a peaceful protest and have not once resorted to physical violence or property destruction, unlike the countless times the state has engaged in that kind of brute force against them.

You appear to have a fundamental misunderstanding of OWS based on your preconception of it being a radical Communist movement. I have no idea where you get that from, but it's quite obvious you haven't actually been following what OWS themselves have been saying.

Edited November 22, 2011 by cybercoma

[bush_cheney2004]

....It's about recognizing that the US federal government is bought and paid for by the financial elite and that the decisions the government makes is no longer in the best interests of the 99%.....

Really? It's only about recognizing the US Federal Government's role ? That's not what they say.

[cybercoma]

Everything else is a result of that one basic fact.

[bush_cheney2004]

Everything else is a result of that one basic fact.

So their/your reality revolves around the US Federal government? Why?

[GostHacked]

So their/your reality revolves around the US Federal government? Why?

No it's actually about the Canadian Government. Durrrr..

[sharkman]

1. Our best strategy is having no strategy. We have no leaders because our movement does not need a leader.

2. We have no property - except our own stuff. We occupy a public place, and claim it as our own to oppose private wealth.

3. We oppose authority - but we want more government spending.

4a. We are American, and we claim to represent 99% of humanity.

4b. As white young articulate North American kids, we defend the world's poor.

5. We oppose capitalism, free trade and the current world corporate system despite that in the past 30 years or so, capitalism and free trade have moved a billion or more people in the world beyond dire poverty.

6. We object to consumerism, and use our iPads to make our message known.

7. We are peaceful anarchists and oppose force - except when we protect ourselves.

Bang on observations, it's protest based on hypocrisy. They get the homeless to stand with them while they go home for a shower/supper, etc. It's actually quite sad to see that a group of people can be so out of touch with reality.

Edited November 28, 2011 by sharkman

[Shwa]

It's actually quite sad to see that a group of people can be so out of touch with reality.

And at the same time, they're not.

[Cameron]

Well that was fun while it lasted.

When does Apple release their next iPhone?

[jbg]

When does Apple release their next iPhone?

When Steve Jobs returns from his latest sabbatical to make the release.

[sharkman]

When Steve Jobs returns from his latest sabbatical to make the release.

Yow know, you've got quite a sense of humor!