Persecuted Christians In America!

[betsy]

And here's another question - if homosexuality is so unnatural, why is it so prevalent in nature?

You asked me a question before, and you gave a conclusion...........

So what does the New Testament says about homosexuality then?

Not much, it seems:

http://www.westarinstitute.org/Periodicals/4R_Articles/homosexuality.html

That's why most people that talk about the evils of homosexuality refer to Leviticus....but then, as we all know, Leviticus says a lot of things.

.....your conclusion that was clearly based on ignorance. I proved you wrong by posting several refernces to homosexuality in the New Testament. And what was your response to my evidences that proved you are terribly mis-informed?

All points betsy conveniently continues to ignore. Things can't be had both ways. Overall, the only reasonable conclusion is that the bible is a book of nonsense bs...

It feels like I'm dealing with a petulant child.

Ironically, it is you who conveniently continues to ignore, wants things both ways....and your response reasonably offers the conclusion that you are just all nonsense bs....

So why waste my time on you?

Edited August 27, 2012 by betsy

[Melanie_]

Yes, Betsy, of course. The daughters got him too drunk to know that he was having sex with his own children. Lot set the standard defense for incestuous fathers everywhere - "no, really, she wanted it!"

[Smallc]

You asked me a question before, and you gave a conclusion...........

.....your conclusion that was clearly based on ignorance. I proved you wrong by posting several refernces to homosexuality in the New Testament.

Vague references which were actually in the very post you responded to. The bible says almost nothing clear on homosexuality...or much else for that matter. That you can justify and spin the contradiction is your problem, not mine. Again, if homosexuality is unnatural, as passages in the bible claim, why is it so prevalent in nature?

[cybercoma]

Well obviously He was, since He explained which are the most important of all laws. And they are, Loving God with all your heart, mind and soul and Loving thy neighbor. He said all others are hinged on those two.

So nothing about how much God hates fags?

[cybercoma]

Yes, Betsy, of course. The daughters got him too drunk to know that he was having sex with his own children. Lot set the standard defense for incestuous fathers everywhere - "no, really, she wanted it!"

He was drunk, so it's ok.... you see?

[Black Dog]

Well, if the Bible is to believed, we're all the product of some pretty serious incest.

[GostHacked]

Well, if the Bible is to believed, we're all the product of some pretty serious incest.

If we all came from Adam and Eve, and if the biblical version is correct that they were Caucasian, then how did blacks, hispanics, orientals ect come about?

The current gene pool diversity shows that it cannot all be from one source.

[cybercoma]

If we all came from Adam and Eve, and if the biblical version is correct that they were Caucasian, then how did blacks, hispanics, orientals ect come about?

The current gene pool diversity shows that it cannot all be from one source.

There's more genetic variation within races than between them. These groups all came from a common ancestor, just as every domesticated dog from chihuahuas to great danes is a direct descendant from wolves.

[GostHacked]

There's more genetic variation within races than between them. These groups all came from a common ancestor, just as every domesticated dog from chihuahuas to great danes is a direct descendant from wolves.

Yes a common group of ancestors, I agree. But the genetic diversity we see simply cannot come from two people.

Dogs came from different groups of species of wolves (i am guessing) and through cross breading garners the diversity you see now. Dogs did not come from a single couple (male-female) wolves.

[Guest American Woman]

Where is your explanation about quoting forgiving and forgiveness?

Why should I have to explain it to you? If you don't understand it or interpret it the same way others do, why should I try to put my explanation on you? You only live by your beliefs, your interpretations; that's plain to see. Which is fine - if you would only allow others the same courtesy.

At any rate, since you are trying to force others to live according to your beliefs, the least you can do is explain them and the basis for them, so I'll ask again:

So how do you know, if there was a ban against homosexuality, that it wasn't just a cultural law of the day?

So where in

The Ten Commandments

does it say that SSM is a sin?

[BubberMiley]

As I said, the discussion was between Canadien and I - two Christians who believe in the same God.

There is only one God. God doesn't like it when you suggest there are others. I think he has three or four commandments about that.

[Shakeyhands]

At any rate, since you are trying to force others to live according to your beliefs, the least you can do is explain them and the basis for them, so I'll ask again:

Coveting of your neighbours ass certainly has some homosexual connotations to it? :lol:

[cybercoma]

There is only one God. God doesn't like it when you suggest there are others. I think he has three or four commandments about that.

betsy has been re-informed numerous times that Christians and Jews believe in the same God as her and all the other Christians, but conveniently ignores or refuses to accept it.

[Melanie_]

However, obviously homosexual sex was considered more wicked than rape of virgins by men (because of the very un-naturalness of sex between same gender in the eyes of God), thus offering his daughters is like choosing the lesser evil?

A wonderful god you choose to worship.

[Moonlight Graham]

Mind if I postpoine that one until after vacations?

sure. Have fun!

[betsy]

Yes, Betsy, of course. The daughters got him too drunk to know that he was having sex with his own children. Lot set the standard defense for incestuous fathers everywhere - "no, really, she wanted it!"

And may I also remind you that Lot's story happened prior to Moses - before The Commandments were handed down. Anyway, part of it, if not most is explained.

As for having "set the standard for defense for incestuous fathers," that's really laughable!

If we believe criminals in jail - murderers, dope dealers, terrorists - practically all of them are innocents!

Passing the buck is a standard defense! Go ahead, check out a child's version of events when caught doing something wrong.

Actually, passing the buck is more prevalent now - thanks to the liberal minds! There is no accountability. Look at your statement as an example: trying to pass the buck to a character from thousands of years ago!

Standard my foot. Heck, they now even have an excuse for mothers to execute their own children in cold blood! If you support abortion, don't talk to me about "standards." Relativists have no set standards!

[betsy]

A wonderful god you choose to worship.

Yes.

My Creator, My Maker. My Saviour, My Lord.

[betsy]

Why should I have to explain it to you?

You're the one who quoted it! It's just so curious why you'd quote a verse that's so irrelevant to the discussion (at least from the way I see it) - thus I say you're just winging it! That's a very cliched and common arguments by non-believers - picking out any verse and taking them out of context - which they think might help their arguments! And I'm saying you just did the very same thing.

If you cannot explain......fine. Of course you can't. It doesn't fit.

Edited August 28, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

Well, when I opened my Bible this morning to do my reading, I happened to be on ACTS 15.

The whole chapter deals with what we've been discussing about lately - and perhaps answers directly some of the posters questions regarding laws.

Since nothing happens "coincidentally" (to a Christian), I feel compelled to post it:

So here it is:

Acts 15

15 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:

31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

33 And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.

34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.

35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do.

37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark.

38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.

39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;

40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God.

41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.

My Study explanations for 15:20 indicates: "Though redeemed gentiles are not under the Mosaic Law, four restrictions are placed upon them. These are not the usual four prohibitions preached during the twentieth century, but they were amazingly comprehensive and were important to the 1st century church.

They involve religious, moral and physical purity. They also concern the primary element separating gentiles from Jews - dietary regulations. These principles did much to remove offensive practices without establishing legalism. Paul more appropriately enunciates two ti,eless principles for governing Christian conduct apart from the law: (1) Live by love. (2) Live by the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:13-16)"

< may the Holy Spirit bring enlightenment especially to those who truly are seeking, that we may come to understand >

Edited August 28, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

At any rate, since you are trying to force others to live according to your beliefs, the least you can do is explain them and the basis for them, so I'll ask again:

Homosexuality was openly practiced in the days of Genesis (ie Sodom and Gomorrha). Homosexual acts had been prohibited by God as stated in Genesis. That the same prohibition still applied in the time of the New Testament, and clearly stipulated in the New Testament, it therefore is included in the law.

Christ explained and expanded on the 10 Commandments. As an example: in God's eyes, it is adulterous to even fantacize or to desire another.

Since Christ brings a message from God (keeping in mind that Jesus is God in human form) - He has all the Authority to amend the Laws that He created.

You can argue that it is not written specifically in the 10 Commandments. But it's been specifically stipulated (prohibition of same gender sex) in both the Old and the New Testament.

THAT FALLS UNDER THE VERY FIRST COMMANDMENT: I AM THE LORD THY GOD.

(whom we should OBEY).

Therefore, it is official. No question about it whatsoever.

(Those who do not obey are directly affected by the verse regarding HUMBLE-NESS and pride)

Edited August 28, 2012 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

THAT FALLS UNDER THE VERY FIRST COMMANDMENT: I AM THE LORD THY GOD.

(whom we should OBEY).

Then you should repent for that "we worship the same god" comment. It's clear that you should never, ever imply there are others to worship. That's way more explicitly forbidden than man on man love.

[Black Dog]

Folks, I personally think it's time to end some of the ridiculous thread drift and get back on topic. I'd like to see more of kimmy's latest examples of Christian "persecution" and a lot less Crazy Church Lady from here on out.

[Guest American Woman]

Folks, I personally think it's time to end some of the ridiculous thread drift and get back on topic. I'd like to see more of kimmy's latest examples of Christian "persecution" and a lot less Crazy Church Lady from here on out.

Oh yes, please! Because that's so much better.

[GostHacked]

Oh yes, please! Because that's so much better.

Yes because staying on topic is just a dumb thing right?

[Black Dog]

Oh yes, please! Because that's so much better.

Infinitely so.

You can always just not read it.