The TTC thread

[Mr.Canada]

I don't see why transit must be a "us against them" situation. It seems that every issue has now become political with everyone voting for their side only in every instance instead of producing results this just polarizes everything to the point of inaction.

Toronto needs more transit and it would seem that some form of rail unimpeded by traffic is the way to go. Why can't they start something? It will take years and years to build/plan just one extension. Now is the time to start.

Everything cannot be the tight fisted approach and everything cannot be the raising taxes approach. Instead people need to learn to meet in the middle with something both sides can live with. People need to put their egos and ideology aside and get working for the people. After all it is the actual public who suffers from these tactics employed by all sides. nothing gets done yet council votes themselves raises every year.

[TheNewTeddy]

Ottawa has dedicated property taxes. Not a raise in taxes, but just that the current taxes have been portioned off. Something like this would be great for Toronto, as most residents wouldn't have much of a problem with an increase in the Transit Tax, the Police Tax, the Fire Department Tax, or the Ambulance Tax. Considering that 50%+1 of city funds go to these things (IIRC) it would make governance much easier, open, and transparent.

[guyser]

Ottawa has dedicated property taxes.

Could you please expand on this or do you know a link I could read? Seems funny.

Something like this would be great for Toronto, as most residents wouldn't have much of a problem with an increase in the Transit Tax, the Police Tax, the Fire Department Tax, or the Ambulance Tax. Considering that 50%+1 of city funds go to these things (IIRC) it would make governance much easier, open, and transparent.

Oh I am not so sure about that. Our Police are paid far too much and much generosity abounds with their pay sched and benefits. The Fire Dpet not so much, but w the debacle that is Ornge, they too are suspect and people would bitch.

[TheNewTeddy]

The TTC is getting bendy buses again. 60 footers with the slinky in the middle. I can get links if need be, but LSS, it's a good thing.

[Boges]

UH OH TTC commuters. Fair Hike in the new year.

Looks like Stintz is actually doing the Mayor's bidding after all.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transportation/article/1255775--ttc-fare-hike-likely-in-the-new-year

TTC riders will probably face a fare increase in the new year, says TTC chair Karen Stintz. But how much hasn’t been decided.

“The commission did pass a framework that keeps fares moderate and increases within inflation,” she said Wednesday.

Before it completes its budgeting, the TTC still has to decide whether to contract out some work to save money on operations, Stintz said. A budget report is expected to come before the transit commission later this month or next.

Last December, the Toronto Transit Commission approved a 10-cent fare increase on tokens (pro-rated on other fares) in 2013, 2014 and 2015.

A 10-cent increase this year that brought the price of a token to $2.60 generated an extra $30 million.

Transit officials have been considering how they can save money by contracting out some non-core work. They have already outsourced garbage collection and are now targeting overnight cleaning and fuelling of buses in two of the TTC’s seven divisions.

The 150 TTC workers who currently do those jobs, for about $27 an hour, would be absorbed into other areas.

$27/hour to clean.

[Black Dog]

UH OH TTC commuters. Fair Hike in the new year.

Looks like Stintz is actually doing the Mayor's bidding after all.

What makes you say that?

[Boges]

What makes you say that?

Contracting Out? Raising Rates?

I'm sure those are things Rob Ford would approve.

Maybe he's not making her do these things but when she totally changed the plan to make a Subway to go in the Scarborough it seemed that she was moving over to the left.

[Black Dog]

Contracting Out? Raising Rates?

I'm sure those are things Rob Ford would approve.

I don't know if he'd be down with raising fares, I don't recall him ever talking about that.

Maybe he's not making her do these things but when she totally changed the plan to make a Subway to go in the Scarborough it seemed that she was moving over to the left.

Stintz has always been a fiscal conservative. Her rejection by Ford Nation simply shows how far gone they are in terms of understanding basic math. After all it's not like she was ideologically opposed to subways! subways! subways!

[TheNewTeddy]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/14/one-ttc-worker-killed-another-injured-after-hit-by-train

One worker killed, another injured.

We are fortunate this does not happen more often.

[Boges]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/21/ttc-union-threatens-work-to-rule-of-contracting-out-cleaners

It'll be interesting what will comes of this.

The TTC Union is threatening Job Action because cleaning staff is being contracted out. Cuz of the "Job for Life" provision, no one would be laid off and the staff effected will be redistributed and replace jobs lost by attrition. But obviously the goal is to whittle down the strength of the Union.

It'll be interesting to see if the Union really wants to fight this fight. This new Aussie TTC head they have Andy Byford doesn't seem like he'll want to put up with crap like that.

I doubt the public will respond well a slowed down system, seeing that the TTC is already pretty busy.

I find it rather idiotic that for the TTC to run smoothly the TTC has to do stuff above and beyond their contract, making it easy for them to easily legally cripple the system without any evident recourse from mangement. I guess the last contract was very "Union Friendly".

Edited September 26, 2012 by Boges

[Mr.Canada]

We live way out in the sticks about an hr from Toronto but sometimes we do go to Toronto for the day and when we do we park at Yorkdale and take the train downtown. The TTC is getting way too expensive now, the fares keep going up. $3 to take a bus? That is insane. 2 adults round trip is $12. We always get the day pass but still.

It's getting to the point where it might be more worthwhile to drive downtown and just park a little outside the core and walk. Att his pace in a couple years it will be $5 to take a bus...then up to $10 for a one way trip in 10 years. Insane.

[Smallc]

Att his pace in a couple years it will be $5 to take a bus...then up to $10 for a one way trip in 10 years. Insane.

Inflation and service improvements will do that.

[Black Dog]

Inflation and service improvements will do that.

As will the over reliance on fares to cover those costs.

[Smallc]

As will the over reliance on fares to cover those costs.

Sure, but, $3 is not really an excessive fare.

[Mr.Canada]

Sure, but, $3 is not really an excessive fare.

It's outrageous. Soon not even the poor will be able to afford a bus ride. Is this the goal? To leave the transit only for the environmentalist elite?

It's becoming more worth it to drive a car then to take transit nowadays. I think transit should be free for all.

[Smallc]

I think transit should be free for all.

And how will you pay for that?

[guyser]

It's outrageous.

You suck at math then.

Gas, oil, maintenance, tires parking etc all cost more than $3 for a trip from Yorkdale to downtown.

Edited September 27, 2012 by guyser

[Mr.Canada]

You suck at math then.

Gas, oil, maintenance, tires parking etc all cost more than $3 for a trip from Yorkdale to downtown.

I'm not the only one on a train so the cost is divided by the number of passengers.

And how will you pay for that?

Transit should be free or nearly free. Truth is that the TTC bureaucracy is entirely too massive. They need to run it more efficiently, like a business. The TTC needs to build more partnerships with business, this would help keep the cost to the rider very low.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Mr.Canada

[Black Dog]

Transit should be free or nearly free. Truth is that the TTC bureaucracy is entirely too massive. They need to run it more efficiently, like a business. The TTC needs to build more partnerships with business, this would help keep the cost to the rider very low.

And what, pray tell, would the private sector's motivation be for keeping fares down?

The problem is not the TTC bureaucracy, it's that it is woefully under subsidized when compared to other systems in municipalities of similar size.

[Mr.Canada]

And what, pray tell, would the private sector's motivation be for keeping fares down?

The problem is not the TTC bureaucracy, it's that it is woefully under subsidized when compared to other systems in municipalities of similar size.

Advertising is the motivation. One the buses trains and rapid tranist. As wel las any products sold on TTC grounds including papers, candy, beverages, Mcdonalds etc. If you want to sell in the paper stands and burger shops then they'll have to pay every year for the privelidge. There are a lot of them all over the system. Each beverage and candy company, the fast food companies, etc. They could even sell space for images on transfers, tickets and metropasses.

Do like how they do in NASCAR with the buses and trains. The more money they give they bigger the ad space they get.

I'm sure Coke, Pepsi, Cadbury, Nestle, Mcdonalds, Toronto Star and Sun would pay for exclusive rights to have their products sold on premisis.

That's just one money idea I have, I'm sure their are many others.

Sure it is. It's bloated. Same goes for the union and the bloated wages. $50/hr to drive a bus? Give me a break.

[Black Dog]

Advertising is the motivation. One the buses trains and rapid tranist. As wel las any products sold on TTC grounds including papers, candy, beverages, Mcdonalds etc. If you want to sell in the paper stands and burger shops then they'll have to pay every year for the privelidge. There are a lot of them all over the system. Each beverage and candy company, the fast food companies, etc. They could even sell space for images on transfers, tickets and metropasses.

Do like how they do in NASCAR with the buses and trains. The more money they give they bigger the ad space they get.

I'm sure Coke, Pepsi, Cadbury, Nestle, Mcdonalds, Toronto Star and Sun would pay for exclusive rights to have their products sold on premisis.

That's just one money idea I have, I'm sure their are many others.

Do you think the fast food joints in subway stations and advertising space on buses/streetcars/subways are given away for free now?

Sure it is. It's bloated. Same goes for the union and the bloated wages. $50/hr to drive a bus? Give me a break.

OK: prove it. Here's a couple of facts for you while you do your research to support your claim: It is also the only major transit operation in the world that does note receive operating subsidies from a national government. And the TTC is the least-subsidized major transit authority in North America.

[Mr.Canada]

Do you think the fast food joints in subway stations and advertising space on buses/streetcars/subways are given away for free now?

I have no idea how much they are paying but perhaps it isn't enough. Plus all those news stands that sell Coke products. This should be only allowed for companies paying for the priviledge to have their products

They aren't doing enough. I like to see seeling space on the whole bus or street car outside and inside. Seats, walls, outside, everything. Like I said NASCAR style. Corperate sponsorship could buy a certain number of buses etc. With stickers along the bottom for companies giving parts tothe TTC to fix and maintain the buses.

Basically the TTC needs to rethink it's whole marketing strategy. Right now all they want to do is suck up to government for money instead of hitting the streets and getting the money themselves.

[Michael Hardner]

There is a new phenomenon happening in Toronto and it is getting no coverage.

Rush hour has now made it impossible to get a train north between Queen and Bloor around 5 to 6 pm.

[Black Dog]

I have no idea how much they are paying but perhaps it isn't enough. Plus all those news stands that sell Coke products. This should be only allowed for companies paying for the priviledge to have their products

They aren't doing enough.

So you don't actually know how much they make, but you're convinced it's not enough. OK.

I like to see seeling space on the whole bus or street car outside and inside. Seats, walls, outside, everything. Like I said NASCAR style. Corperate sponsorship could buy a certain number of buses etc. With stickers along the bottom for companies giving parts tothe TTC to fix and maintain the buses.

Basically the TTC needs to rethink it's whole marketing strategy. Right now all they want to do is suck up to government for money instead of hitting the streets and getting the money themselves.

The TTC currently has a $28 million hole in its operating budget they are trying to patch with fare hikes. Currently, ad revenues bring in around $15M a year (though that number fluctuates year to year depending on the economy). let's be generous and assume there's the capacity to double that figure. You're still looking at a shortfall in the operating budget alone. So not only can you forget about no more fare hikes, you can kiss your free transit dream goodbye.

[guyser]

Like I said NASCAR style. Corperate sponsorship could buy a certain number of buses etc. With stickers along the bottom for companies giving parts tothe TTC to fix and maintain the buses.

What? so we can entice dumb fat and stupid rednecks from the Halton region to use the system?

Great idea, we'll entice 1000 people! Profit pure win, $$$ shortfall solved!