Keystone XL Delayed

[olp1fan]

  On 11/12/2011 at 8:54 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

..as long as that lasts...as usual...some Canadians want to change even that. The identity crisis continues unabated.

no, only 1 senator wants to change it...we have the polar bear on our Toonie

Beaver will always be our animal

[bush_cheney2004]

  On 11/12/2011 at 8:57 PM, olp1fan said:

no, only 1 senator wants to change it...we have the polar bear on our Toonie

Beaver will always be our animal

Do whatever you have to do....it's just part of the Canadian psyche. The beavers on my back lot don't care either way.

[Guest American Woman]

  On 11/12/2011 at 8:49 PM, olp1fan said:

Don't mess with the Beaver

They might be proud and noble animals but they'll chew your ankles off

that is your future

Last I heard, "Joe Canada" moved to the United States to try to make it in Hollywood. Did he leave his Beaver behind - or has it, too, become enamored of America?

Gotta say, though, loved the commercial. That Beaver rocks.

[olp1fan]

ya ya ya, U.S has Hollywood..it's hard to beat Hollywood

[jacee]

  On 11/12/2011 at 7:55 PM, olp1fan said:

It is over. How much would you like to bet that Obama snubs Harper ...they were supposed to meet and talk Sunday along with the Mexican President but he had to cancel due to the tragic death of one of his ministers. I see no reason why the two of them can't sit down and discuss the pipeline decision.

But yeah if you expect Canada to wait until the 2012 election is over you can kiss our asses

Really?

Who do you speak for olp?

I understand the disappointment some feel but it seems not constructive to me to throw vengeful statements around. What happened is just democracy in action. I realize democracy is frustrating to business/industry autocrats, but at some point they have to get accustomed to it. If TransCanada had paid attention to people's concerns earlier in the game and presented alternative routes up front, maybe they'd be proceeding now.

They can buy the politicians but not the people.

[Shady]

  On 11/12/2011 at 10:56 PM, jacee said:

If TransCanada had paid attention to people's concerns earlier in the game and presented alternative routes up front, maybe they'd be proceeding now.

There's no need for alternative routes.

[Guest Derek L]

  On 11/12/2011 at 6:15 PM, Argus said:

And we'd get even more with the terminal in BC...

It’s not an either/or proposition……..The Chevron refinery here is being upgraded/expanded and the TransMountain line is currently being expanded………Keystone was in addition to this………You might be confusing the issue with Enbridge’s proposed Northern Gateway pipeline……..which is being stalled with negotiations with First Nations……….The other proposal, by Enbridge, is to extend the current lines that terminate in Oklahoma, to Houston (The proposed destination of Keystone XL). See “Wrangler Pipeline”

  Quote

This pipeline was supposed to carry 800k barrels per day. Right now we're selling oil at a $20 a barrel discount, right?

800k x 20 is $16 m per day X 365 is a cost of $5.8 billion per year the lack of a pipeline is costing. Seems to me that building a refinery to handle it here is the no brainer.

It’s not that easy……Say they build a refinery…..Instead of having to transport crude/bitumen, now you have to transport the various refined products, each requiring their own pipelines……Figure the cost of one pipeline, multiplied by 3-4 (Low grade Gasoline, Diesel, Kerosene & bunker fuel) as a minimum, to say nothing of the various other grades and requirements for petrochemicals…..

What you (and others are proposing) is a major expansion of infrastructure that’s not needed with current output. Also, you (and others) are looking at this as an antagonistic perspective, most of these companies, both Canadian and American owned, have interests in both countries (amongst others)…..

Keystone XL doesn’t get built…….. Their competitors, Enbridge (for example) will find other options…..As I’ve suggested, the ‘Wrangler” pipeline won’t require negotiations with Nebraskan farmers, BC first nations or Middle East despots……

[olp1fan]

  On 11/12/2011 at 10:56 PM, jacee said:

Really?

Who do you speak for olp?

I understand the disappointment some feel but it seems not constructive to me to throw vengeful statements around. What happened is just democracy in action. I realize democracy is frustrating to business/industry autocrats, but at some point they have to get accustomed to it. If TransCanada had paid attention to people's concerns earlier in the game and presented alternative routes up front, maybe they'd be proceeding now.

They can buy the politicians but not the people.

the obama administration PICKED that route...there was quite a few routes proposed

I have no idea what you're talking about

Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest American Woman]

  On 11/13/2011 at 5:17 AM, olp1fan said:

the obama administration PICKED that route...there was quite a few routes proposed

Guess again.

The U.S. Department of State issued a Presidential Permit authorizing the construction, maintenance and operation of facilities at the United States and Canada border in March of 2008.

Obama was sworn in as POTUS on January 20, 2009.

[Guest Derek L]

  On 11/13/2011 at 7:22 AM, American Woman said:

Guess again.

The U.S. Department of State issued a Presidential Permit authorizing the construction, maintenance and operation of facilities at the United States and Canada border in March of 2008.

Obama was sworn in as POTUS on January 20, 2009.

Why let facts get in the way of a good attack hey?

[Guest American Woman]

  On 11/13/2011 at 2:22 PM, Derek L said:

Why let facts get in the way of a good attack hey?

Yeah, it's a bummer when that happens.

I'm still expecting to see this pipeline go through. From what I've read, even the costs of a delay and rerouting it will be cheaper than other alternatives.

[cybercoma]

  On 11/12/2011 at 6:35 PM, Argus said:

I suspect the Chinese will be willing to help with as much money as we want. Might even build us a refinery if we guarantee they get the proceeds.

This is more than possible. The Chinese have been paving roads and building infrastructure in Africa with absolutely no guarantee of returns.

[Argus]

  On 11/13/2011 at 3:35 PM, cybercoma said:

This is more than possible. The Chinese have been paving roads and building infrastructure in Africa with absolutely no guarantee of returns.

The Chinese have already taken an $11 billion stake in the oil sands. If the Americans won't let us pipe it there the Chinese will certainly do whatever we want to get it sent to them. That includes paying higher prices.

[Guest American Woman]

  On 11/13/2011 at 4:54 PM, Argus said:

The Chinese have already taken an $11 billion stake in the oil sands. If the Americans won't let us pipe it there the Chinese will certainly do whatever we want to get it sent to them. That includes paying higher prices.

Makes one wonder why TransCanada is pushing so hard for this pipeline, and is willing to work with Americans to get it done. Perhaps they aren't privy to this information? Or perhaps there's more to it?

Edited November 13, 2011 by American Woman

[Argus]

  On 11/13/2011 at 4:58 PM, American Woman said:

Makes one wonder why TransCanada is pushing so hard for this pipeline, and is willing to work with Americans to get it done. Perhaps they aren't privy to this information? Or perhaps there's more to it?

The western lines aren't being built by TransCanada. But my understanding is that company has already spent a billion dollars preparing for the keystone construction, including stockpiling pipe along the route.

[Guest Derek L]

  On 11/13/2011 at 4:58 PM, American Woman said:

Makes one wonder why TransCanada is pushing so hard for this pipeline, and is willing to work with Americans to get it done. Perhaps they aren't privy to this information? Or perhaps there's more to it?

Exactly, people are looking at the entire thing as a zero sum game……..Oil, like any commodity, will go where it’s in demand…….The already existing lines into the States won’t be “turned off”, but expanded……Expansion as opposed to new construction out manoeuvres much of the regulatory process, especially when crossing the boarder.

[Guest Derek L]

Hmmmm

TransCanada agrees not to put Keystone XL pipeline in Sand Hills

  Quote

A Canadian pipeline company agreed Monday to move the controversial Keystone XL pipeline outside the Sand Hills region of Nebraska, where many feared it would threaten one of the nation’s most important agricultural aquifers.

Sen. Mike Flood, speaker of the Nebraska legislature, announced on the floor that TransCanada Corp. would move the pipeline to another area of the state. Sources in Nebraska said it would likely be located farther east, nearer an existing Keystone pipeline that already carries Canadian tar sands oil into the U.S.

Interesting........

[Moonlight Graham]

Just want to say that the XL pipeline is one freaking huge pipeline.

[Argus]

Not sure if this was posted before. It's a map of the aquifer region in question, and the zillions of pipelines which cross it.

Agallala Aquifier

[Guest American Woman]

  On 11/20/2011 at 5:23 PM, Argus said:

Not sure if this was posted before. It's a map of the aquifer region in question, and the zillions of pipelines which cross it.

Agallala Aquifier

And how many exist and/or cross it in the area under question?

[cybercoma]

Who cares how many cross it already? The residents don't want another pipeline crossing it and are probably miffed about those ones, since many of them have leaked.

[Guest American Woman]

  On 11/21/2011 at 1:24 AM, cybercoma said:

Who cares how many cross it already? The residents don't want another pipeline crossing it and are probably miffed about those ones, since many of them have leaked.

My point, in response to Argus' post, was that there aren't "zillions of pipelines" in the Sandhills - the area that Nebraskans are concerned about.

[cybercoma]

I was responding to Argus. In any case, there are a crapload of pipelines in the aquifer already. That doesn't matter though. Maybe the residents want to get rid of the ones that are there already. The number of pipes quite simply does not matter.