Hey let's talk about the Leafs

The_Squid · February 15, 2015

Why would they get rid of their best D-man who is only 27yrs old? For a late 1st rounder, an old forward who can't score and a tiny forward prospect...

What a strange trade.... Great for the Predators though....

PrimeNumber · February 15, 2015

Why would they get rid of their best D-man who is only 27yrs old? For a late 1st rounder, an old forward who can't score and a tiny forward prospect...

What a strange trade.... Great for the Predators though....

Basically they are trading away two players that are Unrestricted Free Agents (UFA) at the end of the season, have value, and are not going to be resigning with Toronto. They'd rather get something in return for their departure than nothing at all come July 1st. and given that they aren't really looking to win many games at this point, it's a great return. Jokinen was basically just a cap dump for the Preds. Chances are Toronto includes him in a trade by the deadline. The prospect isn't overly great but he's a small scoring winger, which is big for his size and can check well, he projects as a top 9 forward. Franson is great but there is no way he's staying in Toronto after this season, he's shown his worth to the league so he would have had better offers elsewhere.

The_Squid · February 16, 2015

Basically they are trading away two players that are Unrestricted Free Agents (UFA) at the end of the season, have value, and are not going to be resigning with Toronto. They'd rather get something in return for their departure than nothing at all come July 1st. and given that they aren't really looking to win many games at this point, it's a great return. Jokinen was basically just a cap dump for the Preds. Chances are Toronto includes him in a trade by the deadline. The prospect isn't overly great but he's a small scoring winger, which is big for his size and can check well, he projects as a top 9 forward. Franson is great but there is no way he's staying in Toronto after this season, he's shown his worth to the league so he would have had better offers elsewhere.

But this is the richest team in the league. If they can't or won't pay him what he's worth, then what's the goal of the franchise? Mediocrity with the biggest payout possible?

They didn't get much for him, really....

PrimeNumber · February 16, 2015

But this is the richest team in the league. If they can't or won't pay him what he's worth, then what's the goal of the franchise? Mediocrity with the biggest payout possible?

They didn't get much for him, really....

They may be the richest but they also have the longest current history of failure in the league. They have a 46, soon to be 47 season drought since winning a cup. Some players aren't just about money, some actually want a chance to win a cup right now. If they don't trade Franson and he hits free agency he more than likely signs with a top 15 team, most of which will pay him well enough to be better than anything Toronto can offer. They got a late 1st round pick in quite possibly the deepest draft in modern NHL history. A high 2nd round pick could easily bring about a future top 6 forward or top 4 defencemen and Jokinen will without a doubt be included in a trade for more prospects and picks before the deadline. Basically it's

Franson for a 1st

Santorelli for Jokinen + Leipsic

From an outsiders perspective it works for both parties. The leafs officially enter the McDavid playoffs and get a decent return for players that did not want to be resigned. Santorelli wasn't worth much and they wanted a 1st for Franson. They got what they wanted.

Nashville looks scary now though. Best D-core in the entire league. They have the depth and goaltending to go deep in the playoffs now.

Edited February 16, 2015 by PrimeNumber

kimmy · February 16, 2015

So... I assume they had to take Jokinen to take some salary off the Predators hands.

I haven't heard of Leipsic before... he apparently scored a lot of points in junior. The draft pick will probably be very late in the first round. The Predator's first round pick will probably be just a few spots ahead of the Leafs' second round pick.

-k

PrimeNumber · February 16, 2015

So... I assume they had to take Jokinen to take some salary off the Predators hands.

I haven't heard of Leipsic before... he apparently scored a lot of points in junior. The draft pick will probably be very late in the first round. The Predator's first round pick will probably be just a few spots ahead of the Leafs' second round pick.

-k

More or less. The leafs figure they can add Jokinen as an extra to get a trade done if it may be lacking in return for the other team. The pick should land them someone like Daniel Sprong, Colin White or Brock Boeser. All of whom are projected to go late 1st round. Any of those 3 could easily be a top 6 forward if they are developed in the right fashion. Toronto will be having a slow rebuild but I think getting as many 1st round picks in this draft as possible puts them in a good spot about 2-3 years from now. Especially if they manage to land a top 3 pick in the draft. If they get McDavid, who will attract free agents, they could be back into playoff contention within 2 years. I think they should keep Bernier, sell high in the off season on Kessel and Phanuef to shed those big contracts to teams who aren't lucky enough to grab anything in free agency and hold off until next years free agent pool which is much deeper. That's what I'd do.

Shady · February 16, 2015

Great trade! Both Franson and Santorelli are free agents. Leafs get a good prospect and a first round pick. You add that to their own first and second and they'll be able to draft 3 of the top 40 players in a deep draft. Phil and Dion should fetch even higher yields. Bring in Babcock who can coach up and mould a younger team.

Shady · February 16, 2015

They may be the richest but they also have the longest current history of failure in the league. They have a 46, soon to be 47 season drought since winning a cup. Some players aren't just about money, some actually want a chance to win a cup right now. If they don't trade Franson and he hits free agency he more than likely signs with a top 15 team, most of which will pay him well enough to be better than anything Toronto can offer. They got a late 1st round pick in quite possibly the deepest draft in modern NHL history. A high 2nd round pick could easily bring about a future top 6 forward or top 4 defencemen and Jokinen will without a doubt be included in a trade for more prospects and picks before the deadline. Basically it's

Franson for a 1st

Santorelli for Jokinen + Leipsic

From an outsiders perspective it works for both parties. The leafs officially enter the McDavid playoffs and get a decent return for players that did not want to be resigned. Santorelli wasn't worth much and they wanted a 1st for Franson. They got what they wanted.

Nashville looks scary now though. Best D-core in the entire league. They have the depth and goaltending to go deep in the playoffs now.

Squids never heard of the salary cap apparently. It doesn't matter how rich a team is.

The_Squid · February 16, 2015

Why would they ever let Franson get to free agency? Very poor player management.

PrimeNumber · February 16, 2015

Why would they ever let Franson get to free agency? Very poor player management.

Put yourself in his shoes. You can't make someone stick around that doesn't want to be there, no matter what you offer. He couldn't be happier in Nashville, I don't blame him.

Shady · February 17, 2015

Why would they ever let Franson get to free agency? Very poor player management.

Huh? Franson is a decent to good defenceman that will be asking for 5+ million dollars per year. Not worth it. Not in a semi-rebuilding process. You sound like somebody that hasn't watched the Leafs very much. Or you're just trolling.

DFCaper · February 17, 2015

Great trade! Both Franson and Santorelli are free agents. Leafs get a good prospect and a first round pick. You add that to their own first and second and they'll be able to draft 3 of the top 40 players in a deep draft. Phil and Dion should fetch even higher yields. Bring in Babcock who can coach up and mould a younger team.

Why would Babcock take on mission impossible to only have his reputation destroyed? I can't see any coach with a good reputation taking that job with how it worked out with the last few top shelf coaches.

PrimeNumber · February 17, 2015

Why would Babcock take on mission impossible to only have his reputation destroyed? I can't see any coach with a good reputation taking that job with how it worked out with the last few top shelf coaches.

Yeah. Leafs fans can dream on but Babcock is not risking his record to help out across the pond. If I'm him I try and stay in Detroit. If I have to go elsewhere I'm thinking it's time to go to give the Western Conference a try. I'm not him though so I have no idea what he's thinking.

Shady · February 17, 2015

Why would Babcock take on mission impossible to only have his reputation destroyed? I can't see any coach with a good reputation taking that job with how it worked out with the last few top shelf coaches.

Coaches like challenges. Even he said that. He's close with Shannahan and would probably be interested in being a part of something from the beginning now that they're going to be rebuilding with younger players and talent through the draft. If he wanted to stay in Detroit, he could have signed the extension they offered him last summer. But he declined. A mission is always impossible, until it isn't.

Black Dog · February 17, 2015

Kessel is entering Yakupov territory

Yakcity has six points in his last five games. He really looks like he's turning a corner.

As for Phil Kessel, the Leafs will lose any trade he's involved in. Scoring is the most difficult and most important skill and only one player has scored more goals in the past 5 years than Kessel. If anything the Leafs oughta be ashamed they wasted the most productive years of such a talented forward with such awful teams.

kimmy · February 17, 2015

Coaches like challenges. Even he said that. He's close with Shannahan and would probably be interested in being a part of something from the beginning now that they're going to be rebuilding with younger players and talent through the draft. If he wanted to stay in Detroit, he could have signed the extension they offered him last summer. But he declined. A mission is always impossible, until it isn't.

The Leafs should get Dallas Eakins! He loves a challenge, he loves Toronto, and he's already friends with the Toronto media, so it'll be a smooth transition for him. It'll be perfect! Eakins was great with the Marlies, right? I think Eakins and the Leafs were made for each other. Has to happen!

-k

Shady · February 17, 2015

The Leafs should get Dallas Eakins! He loves a challenge, he loves Toronto, and he's already friends with the Toronto media, so it'll be a smooth transition for him. It'll be perfect! Eakins was great with the Marlies, right? I think Eakins and the Leafs were made for each other. Has to happen!

-k

I would take him for the Marlies again.

overthere · February 17, 2015

Why would they ever let Franson get to free agency? Very poor player management.

I know why. The Leafs offered Franson a long term deal that did not - in his opinion- have enough term, money or a no trade clause.

Their opinion of his value was much less than his opinion.

They'll know who was right July 1, when Franson signs with somebody.

overthere · February 17, 2015

Yakcity has six points in his last five games. He really looks like he's turning a corner.

As for Phil Kessel, the Leafs will lose any trade he's involved in. Scoring is the most difficult and most important skill and only one player has scored more goals in the past 5 years than Kessel. If anything the Leafs oughta be ashamed they wasted the most productive years of such a talented forward with such awful teams.

We've seen Nail 'turn a corner' before. I'd prefer that he score a ton of goals right now so they could get something, anything in a trade.

He has a problem they cannot fix: no hockey sense.

Right now, he would get the Oilers almost nothing in return.

Here is the rub for the Oilers, and it is a big one. The Oil paid Eberle, Nugent Hopkins and Hall big money on long term deals at the end of their entry contracts- $6 million per eyar for 5 or 6 years each. There is no way they will pay Yakupov that, it would be insanely irresponsible. But you can be absolutely certain that Nail thinks he is worth that, and he has shown a strong propensity to pout big time. All the Oil can offer him is a year or two as RFA, maybe at $3 million tops. Then he'll play so badly nobody will want him at any price, which is pretty much where he is right now.

They're in a bad spot, and I expect Yakupov to end up in the KHL where he'll get paid well and everybody will tell him every day how great he is.

overthere · February 17, 2015

Oh, and Kessel has a Luongo -like problem with his contract.

I think Toronto will have to eat some cash on this trade.

Black Dog · February 17, 2015

We've seen Nail 'turn a corner' before. I'd prefer that he score a ton of goals right now so they could get something, anything in a trade.

He has a problem they cannot fix: no hockey sense.

Right now, he would get the Oilers almost nothing in return.

Here is the rub for the Oilers, and it is a big one. The Oil paid Eberle, Nugent Hopkins and Hall big money on long term deals at the end of their entry contracts- $6 million per eyar for 5 or 6 years each. There is no way they will pay Yakupov that, it would be insanely irresponsible. But you can be absolutely certain that Nail thinks he is worth that, and he has shown a strong propensity to pout big time. All the Oil can offer him is a year or two as RFA, maybe at $3 million tops. Then he'll play so badly nobody will want him at any price, which is pretty much where he is right now.

They're in a bad spot, and I expect Yakupov to end up in the KHL where he'll get paid well and everybody will tell him every day how great he is.

This post has actually very little to do with Yak, but it says a lot about the poster who made it. Let's not forget: Yak has been put into the worst possible situation for any young player: a terrible team almost completely lacking in leadership or accountability. I don't think it's a coincidence that a number of young players who looked lost under Eakins (Eberle, Schultz, Lander, Klefbom, Yak) have looked better under Nelson. Certainly having a real vet C to play with is benefiting Yakupov. It' snot just that he's scoring either: he's looking better in every facet of the game. The idea that there'd be no trade interest in a 21 year old former first overall pick is just flat out foolish. Only thing sillier would be thinking that trading such a player at this point is a good idea.

There's also absolutely no evidence he'll expect a huge Hall-like deal or has any interest in playing in the KHL ( a league that is in serious distress right now, let's not forget). He's by all accounts a humble, quiet, team-first kid.

overthere · February 17, 2015

This post has actually very little to do with Yak, but it says a lot about the poster who made it. Let's not forget: Yak has been put into the worst possible situation for any young player: a terrible team almost completely lacking in leadership or accountability. I don't think it's a coincidence that a number of young players who looked lost under Eakins (Eberle, Schultz, Lander, Klefbom, Yak) have looked better under Nelson. Certainly having a real vet C to play with is benefiting Yakupov. It' snot just that he's scoring either: he's looking better in every facet of the game. The idea that there'd be no trade interest in a 21 year old former first overall pick is just flat out foolish. Only thing sillier would be thinking that trading such a player at this point is a good idea.

There's also absolutely no evidence he'll expect a huge Hall-like deal or has any interest in playing in the KHL ( a league that is in serious distress right now, let's not forget). He's by all accounts a humble, quiet, team-first kid.

I agree the team has looked better under Nelson, but they are still eyars away from making the playoffs. They have massive holes in goal, center and and particularly on defence to fill. They are about to get very little return for Petry, their best defenceman(after investing several years, they will be fortunate to get a second rounder for him). McTavish has already said his 1-2 defence pairing next year will be Schultz and Klefbom, a terrifying prospect. Shultz, Klefbom, Fayne, Nikitin(oh how awful he is!), Fernce and pick one of these choices: baby Nurse, Marincin and Aulie) That adds up to likely the worst 6/7 in the NHL. Your vet center Roy will be gone soon too, he is just not in their plans going forward. He is a midget sized stopgap after the cluster f**k that was Dreisatl.

I did not say there would not be trade interest for Yakupov, I said they'd get nothing for him- certainly nothing like a trade for pretty much any #1 overall should get. He just has no hockey sense. The biggest problem is the big gap between reality and his own self-perception. He'll be gone soon, one way or another. They have to negotiate his bridge deal soon, and that is not going to go well at all.

A humble, team first kid? Yakupov clearly had no clue about defence(aka team play) until recently and showed little interest of it in the first couple years. He asked for a trade last year through his agent Larionov because Eakins was not playing him where he thought he should play. The Oilers caved and pt jhim back on the second line with power play time because they feared what would happen- that he'd just walk.. And of course he wants a big contract and thinks he's worth it. Everybody else got one, why not him? So when he does not get it, and realizes that nobody in the NHL will give him longterm big money, what does that leave? Yes, he did play in the KHL during the lockout. His father and family are heavily involved in his hockey life, they intervened to keep him from going back to Sarnia. His agent is Larionov, who heavyhanded the Oilers not too long ago.The Oil may keep him a year or two on a bridge contract as did Montreal with Subban, but unlike Subban he is not going to become a premier player and the clock is ticking on Nail..

I've watched him play pretty much every game as an Oiler, and he is nowhere near the kind of franchise, high quality player you'd expect from that draft slot. Everybody in the league knows it. The Oilers have a tough decision ahead, and it may be as early as this summer when he becomes RFA.

Black Dog · February 17, 2015

I did not say there would not be trade interest for Yakupov, I said they'd get nothing for him- certainly nothing like a trade for pretty much any #1 overall should get. He just has no hockey sense. The biggest problem is the big gap between reality and his own self-perception. He'll be gone soon, one way or another. They have to negotiate his bridge deal soon, and that is not going to go well at all.

If you think Yak has no hockey sense or an inflated ego, I don't know what to tell you except you see what you want to see. I've never read anything from coach's or teammates or the media to suggest he's anything as you describe him. Certainly his play in the last dozen games would indicate there's more to this player than we've seen in the past. It's not just that he's scoring: he's playing with confidence, beating guys one-on-one. His teammates can sure see it and they are starting to look for him a lot more.

A humble, team first kid? Yakupov clearly had no clue about defence(aka team play) until recently and showed little interest of it in the first couple years.

No one had a clue about how to defend under Eakins. Including Eakins.

He asked for a trade last year through his agent Larionov because Eakins was not playing him where he thought he should play

There's no evidence that was initiated by Yakupov or that there was a serious trade request involved.

The Oilers caved and pt jhim back on the second line with power play time because they feared what would happen- that he'd just walk.. And of course he wants a big contract and thinks he's worth it. Everybody else got one, why not him?

No proof of this either.

So when he does not get it, and realizes that nobody in the NHL will give him longterm big money, what does that leave? Yes, he did play in the KHL during the lockout.

So did plenty of others. What's your point.

The Oil may keep him a year or two on a bridge contract as did Montreal with Subban, but unlike Subban he is not going to become a premier player and the clock is ticking on Nail..

Again: he's 21. Few if any players reach their full potential at 21. Suggesting you know what he is right now based off his performance with this joke of a franchise is just silly.

I've watched him play pretty much every game as an Oiler, and he is nowhere near the kind of franchise, high quality player you'd expect from that draft slot. Everybody in the league knows it. The Oilers have a tough decision ahead, and it may be as early as this summer when he becomes RFA.

Either they do the smart thing and bridge him or they do the dumb thing and trade him. I expect the former. They'll only do the latter if they like what they can get for him, in which case I expect him to flourish in a different environment.

overthere · February 17, 2015

Either they do the smart thing and bridge him or they do the dumb thing and trade him. I expect the former. They'll only do the latter if they like what they can get for him, in which case I expect him to flourish in a different environment.

You are making an incorrect assumption, that there are only two options for the player. He can also say: I won't play another game here unless you give me big money long term, or at minimum big money short term. What then? Do you think he thinks he is a lesser player than Eberle, Hall, or NH? if he does that, his value in a trade goes from minmal to near zero. It might be different if he'd actually done anything that mattered in three seasons.

There's no evidence that was initiated by Yakupov or that there was a serious trade request involved.

I know for a fact there was, which forced Eakins or more accurately MacTavish to back off. I cannot say how I know that.

But you can also check the record of what was said by all sides then. It is clear enough that Yak got his agent involved and the threat was real and it was made. Why? Because a shitty team put a shitty player back into icetime he simply did not warrant- as was evidenced by his ebnching/demotions and swift reversal. Lrionov came to Edmonton, dinner was had, Yak is back, Taht simple.

So did plenty of others. What's your point.

Been there once, and he'd be welcomed back with open arms to a familiar place. Options options options. Soon.

Again: he's 21.

Duh, that doesn't matter. What matters is his #1 overall, his performance4 for three years, and his contract status. Subban was 43rd pick overall and already much better than Yakupov when his entry level deasl ended. He got a bridge contract, and his response was to win the Norris trophy and earn a whopper deal. Ain't gonna happen with yakupov.

No proof of this either.

Yeah, I'm sure Nail will acknowledge that all the others are more deserving.

The question I ask myself is: where would Nail be playing on a good team under a good coach/management group? Lets say Detroit/Babcock, or Rangers/Vigneault, St Louis/Hitchcock, Chcicago/Quenneville etc.

The answer is this: he'd be in the AHL learning the pro game. When he had that figured out, he'd be playing fourth line until he could be trusted not to be a cumulative -60, the worst plus/minus and the worst player on a really bad team.

Black Dog · February 17, 2015

You are making an incorrect assumption, that there are only two options for the player. He can also say: I won't play another game here unless you give me big money long term, or at minimum big money short term. What then?

He doesn't really have much power though. He's only a restricted free agent after all and he's not even entitled to salary arbitration. Point is, though, there's no evidence at all he'll ask for the 6x6 treatment.

Been there once, and he'd be welcomed back with open arms to a familiar place. Options options options. Soon

So again: no evidence. Plenty of verbal from the player and all who know him to the contrary.

I know for a fact there was, which forced Eakins or more accurately MacTavish to back off. I cannot say how I know that.

I call bullshit

But you can also check the record of what was said by all sides then. It is clear enough that Yak got his agent involved and the threat was real and it was made. Why? Because a shitty team put a shitty player back into icetime he simply did not warrant- as was evidenced by his ebnching/demotions and swift reversal. Lrionov came to Edmonton, dinner was had, Yak is back, Taht simple.

So no proof, just supposition. In fact, if you look at the icetime, it barely budged and continued to fluctuate for the rest of the season. He was even healthy scratched a couple of times after the alleged trade demand was made.

Duh, that doesn't matter. What matters is his #1 overall, his performance4 for three years, and his contract status.

When it comes to assessing a player's potential, of course it matters. Stupid to pretend otherwise.

Subban was 43rd pick overall and already much better than Yakupov when his entry level deasl ended. He got a bridge contract, and his response was to win the Norris trophy and earn a whopper deal. Ain't gonna happen with yakupov.

Sorry, is there a point to this Suban comparison?

The question I ask myself is: where would Nail be playing on a good team under a good coach/management group? Lets say Detroit/Babcock, or Rangers/Vigneault, St Louis/Hitchcock, Chcicago/Quenneville etc.
The answer is this: he'd be in the AHL learning the pro game. When he had that figured out, he'd be playing fourth line until he could be trusted not to be a cumulative -60, the worst plus/minus and the worst player on a really bad team.

The question you should be asking is: would Yak be as bad as he's been on a team with decent teammates and management? I doubt that very much.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Black Dog