Army Guy Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I've done a few of these inter actions with students, mostly at high schools, we normally brought in 2 or 3 soldiers , in a LAV, one would be dressed to the nines All the combat gear, wpns and equipment an average soldier would carry...plus set up displays of other wpns and equipment we would use....and part of it is a hook as discribed by boges...However history is a dry topic to most kids, seeing feeling,what a soldier had to carry, what he eat, what wpns he had, adds greatly to understanding what our soldiers went through each day.....we talked about our experiences, what we saw , and did, and while we left out the gory details, i think by the time we had left thay had a greater understanding...History is more than what is written in a book, it's about the people that have written that history by their actions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I'm a bit disappointed that Remembrance Day been turned into a Veterans Day. It should remain about The Great War and how this was a turning point in history where we stopped glorifying Generals and military "victories" for very good reasons. There should be another day set aside for recognizing vets more generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I'm a bit disappointed that Remembrance Day been turned into a Veterans Day. It should remain about The Great War and how this was a turning point in history where we stopped glorifying Generals and military "victories" for very good reasons. There should be another day set aside for recognizing vets more generally. We stopped glorifying Generals and military victories? Since when? Is this why the US has Memorial Day and Veteran's Day? BTW The Great War was a giant waste of time and lives. WW2 was fought for nobel reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I'm a bit disappointed that Remembrance Day been turned into a Veterans Day. Turned into? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 We stopped glorifying Generals and military victories? Since when? Is this why the US has Memorial Day and Veteran's Day? Well as we know, if the damn warmongering Americans still do it then Canada has to stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I'm a bit disappointed that Remembrance Day been turned into a Veterans Day. It should remain about The Great War and how this was a turning point in history where we stopped glorifying Generals and military "victories" for very good reasons. There should be another day set aside for recognizing vets more generally. What makes the life of a victim of one war worth more than that of another, other than your own prejudices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I'm a bit disappointed that Remembrance Day been turned into a Veterans Day. It should remain about The Great War and how this was a turning point in history where we stopped glorifying Generals and military "victories" for very good reasons. There should be another day set aside for recognizing vets more generally. I'm not sure I agree that you can separate the victims of these conflicts so easily. However, I think there's been a shift away from the original "never again" aspect to a much more rah-rah "support our troops" approach where we "honour" our "heroes" without actually looking too deeply at the conflicts themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Turned into? What? I mean turned into a day for all veterans. The Great War was unique for many reasons that I shouldn't need to elaborate, the least of which that it was a turning-point in history of how conceived of war. We stopped glorifying Generals and military victories? Since when? Is this why the US has Memorial Day and Veteran's Day? BTW The Great War was a giant waste of time and lives. WW2 was fought for nobel reasons. The Cenotaphs and memorials that sprung up after WWI were not like the war memorials of past. They do not glorify particular generals or military victories. The National War Memorial in Ottawa is a prime example of how we no longer glorified our victory, but solemnly memorialized the senseless of the barbaric deaths incurred at war. One could not show boastful pride after The Great War. It's impossible to celebrate a victory with so many violent and senseless deaths. Since that war, we memorialize war in a different way than glorifying battle. For that reason, Remembrance Day should be a reminder of this. It should be a reminder that there are no winners in war. It's a gruesome reality of our world, but not something that should be taken lightly or trumpeted with boastful pride. What makes the life of a victim of one war worth more than that of another, other than your own prejudices? Learn how to read. I never once said that. I said Remembrance Day should be unique because The Great War was a turning point in the way we conceive of war and military victories. I didn't say their deaths were more worth more or less than any other deaths. In fact, I said there should be a separate Veterans Day for vets more generally and to honour those that have died in battle. However, if I think about it, maybe the deaths in WWI are worth more. These men were conscripted into a battle of attrition where the trenches barely moved in either direction. People were being mowed down on both sides of the line and the strategy was little more than hoping the other side would run out of warm bodies first. Someone that loses their life in Afghanistan because an IED blew up their convoy is certainly terrible, but certainly not on par with the battles that were waged during WWI and having the government send your ass into that horror against your will. We're talking about a war that gave rise to the notion of The Lost Generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure I agree that you can separate the victims of these conflicts so easily. However, I think there's been a shift away from the original "never again" aspect to a much more rah-rah "support our troops" approach where we "honour" our "heroes" without actually looking too deeply at the conflicts themselves. It's that shift precisely that I'm referring to. WWI was very unique for bringing about this "never again" attitude. We finally realized that there was no honour and no heroes in war. That it's an ugly, horrific responsibility that we must sometimes incur. We're completely losing site of that now. Edited November 4, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 So then why do we learn about Passchendale, Vimy Ridge, D-Day, Battle for Caen, the Liberation of Holland etc and celebrate those event. Can't tell you a famous Canadian General but Generals Montgomery, Patton, Bradly, MacArthur, Eisenhower were all celebrated for their war victories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Maybe after WW1 they didn't want to glorify or give anyone credit for it because it was a gigantic waste of time, energy and lives. But WW2 has it's definite heroes, and great victories that we should remember and revere what the west was able to do in the face of evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Learn how to read. I never once said that. I said Remembrance Day should be unique because The Great War was a turning point in the way we conceive of war and military victories. I didn't say their deaths were more worth more or less than any other deaths. In fact, I said there should be a separate Veterans Day for vets more generally and to honour those that have died in battle. However, if I think about it, maybe the deaths in WWI are worth more. These men were conscripted into a battle of attrition where the trenches barely moved in either direction. People were being mowed down on both sides of the line and the strategy was little more than hoping the other side would run out of warm bodies first. Someone that loses their life in Afghanistan because an IED blew up their convoy is certainly terrible, but certainly not on par with the battles that were waged during WWI and having the government send your ass into that horror against your will. We're talking about a war that gave rise to the notion of The Lost Generation. Seems to me that is exactly what you said and you are saying it again. You value the lives of those who have died in this country's service according to your own prejudices. It doesn't seem to occur to you that people volunteered for the same reasons regardless of which wars they served in. The vast majority of Canadians who served in both world wars were volunteers. Only about 25,000 conscripts of the over 600,000 Canadians who served in WWI made it to the front and less than 2500 in WW2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Almost 1% of the Canadian population was killed in WWI and nothing was accomplished. The United Kingdom lost nearly 1 million people which was over 2% of their population. I'm sorry, but that war is much more significant and deserves to be remembered on its own for the atrocity of it. In contemporary terms, we would have to lose 341088 soldiers in Afghanistan for the loss to be equal. I can't even wrap my mind around that sort of loss and I highly doubt anyone else can. All that is just the scale of the losses in WWI. There are many other reasons that set it apart. And I'm not saying don't remember the other vets. They should be given a day, but a different one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Why all of this hysteria over one school boards decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 That's what the troops lived, fought, and died in/with. What's next...no horses at schools either? Wanna know why Hitler loved Canadas Vimy Ridge mounument? because there were no tanks, guns, or soldiers on it...just people grieving, I view Rememberance day as remembering those who fallen ...not the job they did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Wanna know why Hitler loved Canadas Vimy Ridge mounument? because there were no tanks, guns, or soldiers on it...just people grieving, I view Rememberance day as remembering those who fallen ...not the job they did Well, we could do that for influenza victims too, but we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Almost 1% of the Canadian population was killed in WWI and nothing was accomplished. The United Kingdom lost nearly 1 million people which was over 2% of their population. I'm sorry, but that war is much more significant and deserves to be remembered on its own for the atrocity of it. In contemporary terms, we would have to lose 341088 soldiers in Afghanistan for the loss to be equal. I can't even wrap my mind around that sort of loss and I highly doubt anyone else can. All that is just the scale of the losses in WWI. There are many other reasons that set it apart. And I'm not saying don't remember the other vets. They should be given a day, but a different one. So what? Every Canadian who dies serving this country in wartime is an individual. You don't put different values on those lives based on the scale of the war. Fewer Canadians died in WW2 but more served and at least five times as many people died in total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) Its kind of ridiculous that world war 1 basically started with Austria - Hungary beefing with Serbia over an assassination Both those countries problems aren't worth the dirt on your shoes Edited November 5, 2011 by olp1fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Why the hell did they cancel the event just because no guns were allowed? To start contraversy? Kiara Cullum, 16, first took part in the event four years ago.“They did have one station where there’s replicas of guns and different things,” said Cullum. The whole event had to be cancelled because this "one station where theres replicas of guns" isnt allowed? Ya cant honor veterans without a bunch of stupid fake guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Why the hell did they cancel the event just because no guns were allowed? To start contraversy? The whole event had to be cancelled because this "one station where theres replicas of guns" isnt allowed? Ya cant honor veterans without a bunch of stupid fake guns? That's why I asked the question on the first page. Apparently guns are "cool" and keep the young ones interested in such ceremonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 That's why I asked the question on the first page. Apparently guns are "cool" and keep the young ones interested in such ceremonies. Well I'll flip that on it's head. What reason should the guns be removed in the first place? There is none, unless you think it's glorifying violence. Which I think is patently absurd. I think this is the 3rd time I've said this. Why do people go to museums? To see historical things up close. This is similar to that but the museum is being brought to the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Well I'll flip that on it's head. What reason should the guns be removed in the first place? There is none, unless you think it's glorifying violence. Which I think is patently absurd. I think this is the 3rd time I've said this. Why do people go to museums? To see historical things up close. This is similar to that but the museum is being brought to the kids. Guns are not a necessary part of remembrance day services. I would rather have kids talk to vets and get their stories rather than see a gun for which they can see on TV at any hour of the day. Sure, guns can be used in remembrance day services but given that guns are tools of war, and the point of remembrance day, given it's 11/11/11 time signature, is to remember the fallen, the waste, the stupidity of war, it is, for me, at odds with the spirit of the day. As such, if you want to have guns in your celebration of war, then go find an appropriate service that will keep you sufficiently entertained and interested. If other groups are going to not allow guns then that is their prerogative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted November 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) Guns are not a necessary part of remembrance day services. I would rather have kids talk to vets and get their stories rather than see a gun for which they can see on TV at any hour of the day. Sure, guns can be used in remembrance day services but given that guns are tools of war, and the point of remembrance day, given it's 11/11/11 time signature, is to remember the fallen, the waste, the stupidity of war, it is, for me, at odds with the spirit of the day. As such, if you want to have guns in your celebration of war, then go find an appropriate service that will keep you sufficiently entertained and interested. If other groups are going to not allow guns then that is their prerogative. Perhaps I should have named the thread more clearly. The event in question wasn't to happen on Remembrance Day. Apparently the Board of Education mandates Remembrance Day Ceremonies to happen. This event was to happen the day before. Education on what happened in times remembered on Remembrance Day. Another poster seemed to highlight why they bring military hardware earlier in this thread. You can inject your thoughts as to why it shouldn't be needed. I even think they are somewhat valid. But the reason's I've heard why the guns AND military vehicles (Not tanks BTW) were not welcomes this year were because of a no guns policy. Which as I said is dogmatic absolutism akin to suspending a child for bringing a plastic butter knife to school. And because some nebulous report of children from other countries that find war imagery traumatic. Both of these reason I find wanting. IMHO. Edited November 5, 2011 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Sure, guns can be used in remembrance day services but given that guns are tools of war, and the point of remembrance day, given it's 11/11/11 time signature, is to remember the fallen, the waste, the stupidity of war, it is, for me, at odds with the spirit of the day. As such, if you want to have guns in your celebration of war, then go find an appropriate service that will keep you sufficiently entertained and interested. If other groups are going to not allow guns then that is their prerogative. The idea that having guns at a Remembrance Day service is a "celebration of war" is your hangup. You should deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 The idea that having guns at a Remembrance Day service is a "celebration of war" is your hangup. You should deal with it. I do deal with it by attending a rembrance day service of my choice (although usually guns are present, but not conspicuous - they are not oohed and awed over like little boys with a penthouse magazine). If the group in the OP doesn't want to have guns at their services then TFB - you deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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